WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - BEN BROWN

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,312]

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I was a part of that.

Mainly because you posted it without evidence/reasoning, and as @Axis of Bob has said, it's very easy to take a set of limited facts (which is all we get as supporters most of the time) and project your own spin on things.

I get the sense from your recent posting that your view is generally a pessimistic one. That's fine, and understandable given our recent history, but that doesn't mean it's accurate or fair, nor does it mean the converse is untrue.

As to May, I've done a search for the news around that time. I can see the media saying Collingwood was going to get him, which evidently was incorrect. I can also see an article suggesting Collingwood were refusing to pay two first round picks for him. Query if it was correct given the previous article, but at any rate we ended up paying one pick, not two (and we got KK back). So, as far as I can tell, there's not a great deal of evidence to suggest we only got May because we paid more than Collingwood.

As to Tomlinson, I can't find anything which reports that St Kilda pulled out of the race, all I can find is suggestions Tomlinson chose us. Now, that doesn't mean St Kilda didn't pull out of the race, but it's hard to say, and hard to know why, if true.

Lever might be highly paid, but I'm not sure paying players highly is all that big of a disaster. One of the clubs you cited in your previous post as a comparison is Carlton, who forked out insane figures to get Jack Martin in the door (completely unwarranted figures IMO). They're doing it again with Williams and Saad. So we're not the only club who pays high figures to attract the players we want to prise out of other clubs.

Ultimately, over the last three off-seasons we've brought in Lever, May, Tomlinson and Langdon. I am happy to stand behind those four names as being strong acquisitions (accepting that the jury's out on Tomlinson), and all that whilst we've continued to draft (bringing in Jackson, Pickett, Rivers, Sparrow, Fritsch and Petty over the same three years).

Having said all of this, I don't think we're a "destination club". I just don't think it's that big of a deal. 

May was under the impression he was going to be a Pie. His manager suggested he have a chat with Goody before he committed which he did almost begrudgingly.

At the end of the phone call he told his manager he wants to be a Dee. I know it means nought without a source but that is how it played out. 

[4_Kent_Watts 898]

41 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Would you want to go to a club that trained on the same paddock as the one they have to do their poo’s and wee’s on? 

No it's crap but Hawthorn wear theirs on the jumper.

[Lucifers Hero 40,581]

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

I can certainly see the argument. I think players also look at other things when they think about coming to a club. I think relationships are important, I think their football role is important (with how they see themselves fitting within the team), lifestyle factors (such as location) and also I think the list profile is important. Players go to work every day and want to get fulfillment from that. Different players play for different reasons and I don't think that $$$ explains all of it. 

Agreed.  So many things go into a decision to change clubs and often $$$ isn't the reason.  We could add success, facilities, club strength to the criteria you mention. 

I just feel that we don't rank highly in the intangibles so have to pay a higher price ($ or picks), which may not be the case. 

I guess I'm just jealous of big and successful clubs.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Demon trucker 1,800]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That seems to be the only way we get really good players:  outbid other interested clubs with $$$ or picks.

I need to get my flak jacket out - the last time I posted something like that there was a huge, negative pile on!

It's more  to it then that, north Melbourne have been  offering huge money to good players and the only ones that had a bite was hacks like Polslack,  Aaron hugehall, both went for big money.

[Lucifers Hero 40,581]

29 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I was a part of that.

Mainly because you posted it without evidence/reasoning, and as @Axis of Bob has said, it's very easy to take a set of limited facts (which is all we get as supporters most of the time) and project your own spin on things.

I get the sense from your recent posting that your view is generally a pessimistic one. That's fine, and understandable given our recent history, but that doesn't mean it's accurate or fair, nor does it mean the converse is untrue.

As to May, I've done a search for the news around that time. I can see the media saying Collingwood was going to get him, which evidently was incorrect. I can also see an article suggesting Collingwood were refusing to pay two first round picks for him. Query if it was correct given the previous article, but at any rate we ended up paying one pick, not two (and we got KK back). So, as far as I can tell, there's not a great deal of evidence to suggest we only got May because we paid more than Collingwood.

As to Tomlinson, I can't find anything which reports that St Kilda pulled out of the race, all I can find is suggestions Tomlinson chose us. Now, that doesn't mean St Kilda didn't pull out of the race, but it's hard to say, and hard to know why, if true.

Lever might be highly paid, but I'm not sure paying players highly is all that big of a disaster. One of the clubs you cited in your previous post as a comparison is Carlton, who forked out insane figures to get Jack Martin in the door (completely unwarranted figures IMO). They're doing it again with Williams and Saad. So we're not the only club who pays high figures to attract the players we want to prise out of other clubs.

Ultimately, over the last three off-seasons we've brought in Lever, May, Tomlinson and Langdon. I am happy to stand behind those four names as being strong acquisitions (accepting that the jury's out on Tomlinson), and all that whilst we've continued to draft (bringing in Jackson, Pickett, Rivers, Sparrow, Fritsch and Petty over the same three years).

Having said all of this, I don't think we're a "destination club". I just don't think it's that big of a deal. 

Thanks for thoughtful response.

Tbh my comment last week was a bit of a throw away line so I was a bit surprised by the pile on.  Thought it would derail the thread if I responded so chose not to.

Yes, I'm pessimistic at the moment and hope this trade/draft period and Pert's review change that.

iirc Coll 1st round 2018 pick was in the high teens having been GF and 2019 pick expected to be similar.  Without looking at 'points' our pick 6 was valued very highly by GCS.  But I prefer to no to rehash the various trades. 

Can I leave it by saying I understand where you are coming from and I'm glad people are optimistic.  I desperately want you all to be right.

 

[Vineytime 854]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Perhaps we aren't the destination club people think we are...

Tmac staying??  No takers or we have decided to keep him?

iirc the only people who have linked us to Brown are those who see we need a tall fwd, Brown is available so 2+2=5. 

Anyone that thinks the MFC is a destination club has their head in the sand. 

[loges 6,767]

Why would St.Kilda make an offer and then jump immediately to the front of the pack? They only had one more win than us but we did beat them I believe. Must have been some sort of offer. Surely this would be nowhere near decided.

[jnrmac 20,310]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

The reality is that if you aren’t playing finals consistently or you aren’t loaded with money, you aren’t a destination club. 
Players look at results. We have made finals once in a decade. That says a lot more to players than looking at our list with a magnifying glass and judging our likelihood of future success. 

But Essendon St Kilda and Carlton are?

What you say doesn't stack up to me.

 

And loaded with money? We all have the same cap. Sure some clubs provide work to spouses etc buts pretty even you'd think.

[Dees247 140]

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Don't know mate, only interest I've heard of was the Collingwood talk in the media.

Not sure on Dogs, first thought is if he's too slow for their style? Could the Hawks be an option? They love an injured recruit.

I heard about the Collingwood link, over a month before it reached the media, so there might be something to it. This was from the Collingwood end, not us though.

[Ron Burgundy 8,588]

There was a time when players such as Luke Ball refused to even talk to us in connection with a potential trade.

At least we’re no longer in that zone: Vince, Melksham, May, Hibberd, Lever, Lewis, Langdon, Tomlinson. We’re in the conversation these days.

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

The reality is that if you aren’t playing finals consistently or you aren’t loaded with money, you aren’t a destination club. 
Players look at results. We have made finals once in a decade. That says a lot more to players than looking at our list with a magnifying glass and judging our likelihood of future success. 

Nailed it Jaded! With the exception of the 2018 false dawn we've been a [censored] up for years! There's about 12 other clubs that would hold more appeal than us. 

FFS how many of we rusted on members have any real confidence in the club?

We've got to become consistent top end performers. 

[Ted Lasso 19,568]

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Nailed it Jaded! With the exception of the 2018 false dawn we've been a [censored] up for years! There's about 12 other clubs that would hold more appeal than us. 

FFS how many of we rusted on members have any real confidence in the club?

We've got to become consistent top end performers. 

Pretty much it, need to start making finals consistently, list is good enough so no excuses

[WERRIDEE 5,605]

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

Perhaps we aren't the destination club people think we are...

Tmac staying??  No takers or we have decided to keep him?

iirc the only people who have linked us to Brown are those who see we need a tall fwd, Brown is available so 2+2=5. 

Of course we are not a destination club we are middle of the road top teams are the destination clubs. We were a destination club for one year when May came to us. I 'd like to have Brown but he's not the be all and end all. We can do just fine with Jacko and Weid.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

So we haven't been linked to this guy at all?  

Every time I open the thread I hope to see news, but there has been nothing.

 

[Roost it far 9,820]

We’ve got nothing to give GWS

[Kent 2,920]

14 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Once this trade period is done, it'll be pretty evident as to how our club and list is really perceived in AFL circles. Could be seriously back to the drawing board for us if we fail to land the key pieces touted. 

According to some on here we are only a couple of players away from success!

I very much doubt it myself and I think our list is not good enough particularly the bottom half

A few players isn't in my opinion going to do it and we will waste another year before going back to the old drawing board.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

But Essendon St Kilda and Carlton are?

What you say doesn't stack up to me.

 

And loaded with money? We all have the same cap. Sure some clubs provide work to spouses etc buts pretty even you'd think.

Who was the last 'big' name that went to those 3 clubs? Martin... he's getting paid $1.7 million front ended.

Case closed. 

[picket fence 18,079]

16 hours ago, Roost it far said:

H

How does losing TMac make us better?

Because he is not very good. Has about as much flexibility as a Meccano man and the turning circle of the QE 2. His Brother is worse again. If the best we can do is this then we are deep in it. We NEVER were a destination club and NEVER will be. Not in my lifetime anyway!

Edited October 19, 2020 by picket fence

[Moonshadow 17,678]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Who was the last 'big' name that went to those 3 clubs? Martin... he's getting paid $1.7 million front ended.

Case closed. 

At the time, these were big names:

Dylan Shiel and arguably Devon Smith.

Brad Hill and Jake Carlisle 

And as you said, Jack Martin

But it would be correct to say big names are more likely to move to successful clubs. Not always. Most players play for 1) Success, 2) Money and 3) Mateship

[Roost it far 9,820]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Because he is not very good. Has about as much flexibility as a Meccano man and the turning circle of the QE 2. His Brother is worse again. If the best we can do is this then we are deep in it. We NEVER were a destination club and NEVER will be. Not in my lifetime anyway!

May, Lever, Langdon all say hi 

a fit and in form TMac killed it 2 short years ago. If, and I know it’s a big of, he can get that form back we’re a top 4 side

[old dee 24,028]

14 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Nailed it Jaded! With the exception of the 2018 false dawn we've been a [censored] up for years! There's about 12 other clubs that would hold more appeal than us. 

FFS how many of we rusted on members have any real confidence in the club?

We've got to become consistent top end performers. 

Correct Bbo, If you have confidence in the MFC you must be in the top 5% of the confidence mentality group.

[Skuit 10,031]

18 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

iirc the only people who have linked us to Brown are those who see we need a tall fwd, Brown is available so 2+2=5. 

We've been described as the front-runner LH - I think that's more than 2+2. And it would make sense if North's list management team are keeping a low profile at present, and thus not feeding the media. On the flip-side, I feel that our link to Phillips may be more of a case of 2+2. Can't recall where that one originated and the language involved. ?

[AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey 390]

15 hours ago, jnrmac said:

But Essendon St Kilda and Carlton are?

What you say doesn't stack up to me.

 

And loaded with money? We all have the same cap. Sure some clubs provide work to spouses etc buts pretty even you'd think.

Both those clubs are more or less in the same position as we were 2-3 years ago when we attracted bigger names like Lever and May when we had $$ and were looking on the up. The difference now is we have little salary cap to work with having signed those players and others to what are now looking like poor deals - Tmac, Harmes etc. As has been stated before, we arent an attractive club for players unless we can compete on money, as well as shortcomings in recent onfield success and offield factors such as dedicated training facilities and purely being a smaller club.

[picket fence 18,079]

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

May, Lever, Langdon all say hi 

a fit and in form TMac killed it 2 short years ago. If, and I know it’s a big of, he can get that form back we’re a top 4 side

Ok let me put it this way of those guys mentioned how many are A Grade?? May possibly close but not the other 2 We paid Huge overs for Lever as intercept defender and whilst Langdon had a good year I would want to see him double up. Let me pose another question to you how many of these quoted players would get a game at Richmond or Geelong?? Answer NONE! and I'll stand by my statement Tom Mcdonald had 1 thats right 1 good year and that was 2 years ago. He isnt going to get any quicker or more maneuverable. Oscar even less so. Just my opinion of course!

[Adam The God 30,645]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

We've been described as the front-runner LH - I think that's more than 2+2. And it would make sense if North's list management team are keeping a low profile at present, and thus not feeding the media. On the flip-side, I feel that our link to Phillips may be more of a case of 2+2. Can't recall where that one originated and the language involved. ?

I'd agree with this mate.

Brown and the MFC have spoken. I certainly haven't heard that we've met with Phillips or have spoken to him at all.

That is not to say it hasn't happened, but I think the chat around Phillips came about on here due to him being squeezed out and being a good fit for us. Particularly, with TMac being mentioned in the Collingwood conversation, I think the 2+2 was flipping those two.

I hope we're looking at him nevertheless, particularly if Polec is no longer an option.