3 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

I agree that it isn't typical and also not a surefire winner, but the key is Jackson. 

The opposition may wish to focus on Weid, as they probably will, but they will likely be in different parts of the ground. Weid didn't have the high impact late in the year because he was forced to stand down the line and just compete for long balls whilst his best footy was as a move flexible foil for McDonald. Most of his success came from either getting out the back or getting it one on one. He's quite mobile and clever but couldn't use any of that doing the dog work down the line. By bringing in Brown/Petty, you can have them set up down the line to do the aerial competing and Weid can be set up slightly away either to attack the contest if in range or position himself to be dangerous as the next target. For instance, you may wish to focus on stopping Charlie Cameron, but if Brisbane are still going to kick it long to McStay then you still need to defend it and that creates opportunities for others.

As for whether it's possible, last night Port mostly played 3 tall forwards (Dixon, Marshall and Ladhams), which mostly shut down Geelong's strong interceptors and allowed their dangerous small forwards to reap the benefits. But Jackson is unlike any of those forwards because of his unique mobility for a player of his size. His unique attributes make him the sort of player that we can almost create a position for. You could play him as a medium forward, or perhaps even as a 'high half/tall forward' where he plays up around the ball but then pushes forward as a marking threat. Where he ends up, we don't really know because he's different to what has come through in the past.

I suppose my point is that we should be setting up a structure that functions without Jackson because Jackson's flexibility and mobility allows us to play him in unique ways, rather than pigeonholing him as a tall forward. But if we play tall then we do need to get the smalls right around them. 

Sorry, that's just kind of just a brain dump. I hope it made some sense. 

I totally agree on Jackson. He could be something special if he gets his marking together. It was really interesting how the Cats played last night, with Blicavs effectively playing as an around the ground ruckman after the bounce and Stanley moving forward. I don't think we would do this as Gawn is such a roadblock when we don't have the ball, but it gave a bit of a blueprint as to how we could use Jackson.

I think the key is to have very few forwards who can't tackle and chase and compete when the ball hits the ground. It is not really about the number of talls and smalls. A forward line of six of Buddy Franklin would be amazing even though it would be ginormous because he is so fast. A forward line of six of Charlie Cameron would also probably work because he is pretty good in the air.

The big issue for us is that Weideman is fairly ordinary when the ball hits the deck. (In addition, Fritsch is a bit of a pressure valve.) We have already invested a lot in Weideman and Jackson so we really need to build around them. Ben Brown is similar to Weideman in that he is a very good aerial target but not a great pressure player. This is not to say a trio of talls could not work, but I am a bit sceptical if it would work with Brown and Weideman being two of them.

 

On 9/25/2020 at 9:49 PM, Hunt29 said:

Not a huge fan. Has kicked a lot of goals but basically a 200cm lead up forward. Needs to find a lot of space to lead into. Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. 

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

Edited October 2, 20204 yr by picket fence

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

I totally agree on Jackson. He could be something special if he gets his marking together. It was really interesting how the Cats played last night, with Blicavs effectively playing as an around the ground ruckman after the bounce and Stanley moving forward. I don't think we would do this as Gawn is such a roadblock when we don't have the ball, but it gave a bit of a blueprint as to how we could use Jackson.

I think the key is to have very few forwards who can't tackle and chase and compete when the ball hits the ground. It is not really about the number of talls and smalls. A forward line of six of Buddy Franklin would be amazing even though it would be ginormous because he is so fast. A forward line of six of Charlie Cameron would also probably work because he is pretty good in the air.

The big issue for us is that Weideman is fairly ordinary when the ball hits the deck. (In addition, Fritsch is a bit of a pressure valve.) We have already invested a lot in Weideman and Jackson so we really need to build around them. Ben Brown is similar to Weideman in that he is a very good aerial target but not a great pressure player. This is not to say a trio of talls could not work, but I am a bit sceptical if it would work with Brown and Weideman being two of them.

 

I think what you and Axis are getting to is spot on, I think the Gawn/LJ combo used properly could be great. Instead of the Blicavs model I'd be instead looking at Gawn being used as more a ruck/CHB therefore staying as that intercepting/intimidating tall when teams try to move out of our forward 50, while LJ could take all Fwd50 and mid center ruck duels, while being able to move between the arcs with freedom when we're bringing the ball back out of defensive 50. We then anchors Weid closer to goal, so we've always got something to kick too, only allowing him out of the forward 70 when either ruck is on the bench, that should ensure all his contests are in a dangerous position, as you said the key is having forwards who crumb, chase and tackle around Weid, while also having defenders with speed to help if the ball gets over Gawn (we're fortunate to have May and Lever who already know when to hold their ground and when to go). And this is why I don't think we need Brown, he might replace Weids role, but wouldn't offer when LJ does, which is where I think we'll do best.

Edited October 2, 20204 yr by Red and Blue realist

27 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????

Correction... in three out of the past four seasons, with an average of 45 for his career up until the end of 2019. For anyone to dismiss him on the strength of this one season, is madness.

8 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

Picket, when I read your posts in the voice of Donald Trump they make so much more sense!

19 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

Is our game plan any good? No. Do we have a good coach? No. Things can turnaround but I don’t see Brown being a good get. We’ll have to give up a first. I think if we go for him it’ll be because Goodwin and Mahoney are desperate to make finals. Yes he has kicked a lot of goals. But personally not a fan of getting him. 

19 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

 

10 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Picket, when I read your posts in the voice of Donald Trump they make so much more sense!

Get well soon @picket fence

19 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

I am in two minds about Brown but the facts are he can kick goals and if they can tweak the game plan and execute, it could work out, Sam and Jackson would the have the second and third best opponents on them which would then bring Pickett in line to clean up up the ground balls so if a deal could get done go for it.

Brown for the 2nd from the Hawks I would do

19 hours ago, hardtack said:

Correction... in three out of the past four seasons, with an average of 45 for his career up until the end of 2019. For anyone to dismiss him on the strength of this one season, is madness.

Yes thanks for the correction 3 out of 4 seasons?? Shheeeeit his price just went up!

11 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Picket, when I read your posts in the voice of Donald Trump they make so much more sense!

Sounds far worse when its read in the voice of Chairman Dan.

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

Sounds far worse when its read in the voice of Chairman Dan.

I prefer Jeff Kennett myself!!

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

I prefer Jeff Kennett myself!!

Why do I think of a leather sofa whenever I see Kennett’s face?

On 10/2/2020 at 2:31 PM, picket fence said:

Ah you sure?? Can I just ask a question????

Re " Not sure we can change the game plan to suit. "

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD??

I think it shambolic!!! We need to get 2 things

A A coach who can coach

B Players who deliver better than they have been coached to do!

Who is the last player we have had to kick 60 plus goals in 2 out of 3 seasons????
 

We need EXACTLY this type of player and get our game style right and COACH players to a much better standard than has been in the last million years!!

GO GET BEN BROWN!

Could someone please describe our game for me please?

I'd be extremely skeptical of anyone that is saying we don't need Brown with how our game plan functions or That J. Cameron costs too much to recruit. So go into next year with an unchanged forward line? It's the happy clapper syndrome in full effect, in denial about where we're at. Waiting for the switch to be flicked. You build a style around the pieces you have. Bring in Ben Brown and you do the same.

Go back a few years and they're probably the ones pointing to an outside runners high uncontested possession ratio to illustrate their softness and why we shouldn't recruit them; "Not Goodys type of player" - Absolutely fatal logic that has set the club back a few years.

 

Edited October 3, 20204 yr by John Demonic

As for cap space, I think the flow on effect of having a functioning forward line with an experienced KPF, will rapidly improvement the development of our 10-22 players and depth, and in turn will offset losing a 1-10 quality midfielder if they want to leave for a bigger contract. 

 

Edited October 3, 20204 yr by John Demonic

Id rather Jackson and Weid and forget about Brown.

Go agter some classy pace.

 

Have we been linked to Brown at all? 

3 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Have we been linked to Brown at all? 

Tom Morris said during the week on a trade chat that we along with the saints have preliminary interest in Brown.. whatever that even means.

16 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Have we been linked to Brown at all? 

Barrett also wrote something about it in his sliding doors segment.

3 hours ago, John Demonic said:

I'd be extremely skeptical of anyone that is saying we don't need Brown with how our game plan functions or That J. Cameron costs too much to recruit. So go into next year with an unchanged forward line? It's the happy clapper syndrome in full effect, in denial about where we're at. Waiting for the switch to be flicked. You build a style around the pieces you have. Bring in Ben Brown and you do the same.

Go back a few years and they're probably the ones pointing to an outside runners high uncontested possession ratio to illustrate their softness and why we shouldn't recruit them; "Not Goodys type of player" - Absolutely fatal logic that has set the club back a few years.

 

Agree fully.

Theres a bit too much hype around Jackson (I’m onboard by the way) but it’s laughable to think he’ll be impacting finals games anytime soon.

We need another quality big man now as in finals footy you need escape kicks into the forward line and two quality key forwards up there.

Look what the Tigs did after the 2018 prelim loss, they went out and got Lynch. Fast forward 12 months to the finals and the same prelim Riewoldt stank it up but they were saved by Lynch being amazing. Then in the GF Lynch was held well allowing Riewoldt off the leash.

Just watching the Dogs vs Saints finals and the only time the dogs looked dangerous was the last quarter when Naughton finally clunked a couple. They were smashed in the air.

Weid will just continue to develop and chip away. Jackson will come into his own in three years time but for now, I’d like to see him play as the third tall as he has the pace and agility to pressure and chase well.

Jackson is an exciting talent and allows us to play another key forward. For me, that allows us to go and get big Benny.

 

I’d take him. Use our 2nd round pick and offer a 3 year incentive based contract. 

Take the pressure off Weid 

2 hours ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

I’d take him. Use our 2nd round pick and offer a 3 year incentive based contract. 

Take the pressure off Weid 

I like how weid averages 11km a game !! ????

On 10/2/2020 at 2:31 PM, picket fence said:

Are you sure our CURRENT GAME PLAN IS ANY GOOD  

What game plan????!!!!

Edited October 3, 20204 yr by DemonOX

If our tall fwd option is between Brown and TMac I prefer Tom.  They are the same age and by reports are earning/looking for similar $ packages.

Brown is accurate for goal but is one dimensional ie runs straight to mark the ball overhead.  He doesn't have positional flexibility and is poor defensively.  Tom is a better option on each of those 3 features and therefore fits our (confusing) game plan better. 

We know that Tom has overcome his injuries but don't know if Brown has.

We are relying on rumours and reports about Tom's weight gain, and being out of favour with Goodwin.  If they can be overcome, I believe Tom can be best 22 again.

2018 shows what he can do with a game plan that uses his strengths.  2019 he played injured in with an erratic game plan.  2020 he was overweight and out of favour.  At 28 he still has it in him.  Throw in a decent fwd coach and clearly define his role and who knows what might happen. 

And at the end of 2021 with regular senior games and with only one year left on his sizeable contract he will be a more tradeable.   Jackson will be a year further developed and better placed to replace TMac.  Brown gives us less list management flexibility.

I think we need another tall fwd to help Weideman while Jackson develops.  Much prefer it be Tom and keep him for at least one more year.

Edited October 3, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero