On 25/06/2017 at 23:31, Is Dom Is Good said:

Apparently Garry Lyon was saying Clarry should get a $5,000 fine!

He is such an attention seeking [censored].

Tim Watson actually disagreed and said he definitely got him on the chin

Garry ...whatever backwoods lair you sought solace in needs revisiting. Just stay there.

You've turned into a blubbering fool, a caricature, indeed a parody of your former good ( footy astute ) self.

Mr Lyon. Here's how you save face in future. Keep lips closed 

How the mighty have fallen 

To think that a powerhouse of intellect in Watson has bested you in terms of basic comprehension !!

Oi vey Mr Lyon 

It didn't look great, but he did cop a bit of elbow to the jaw.

They can't 'make an example' of Clarrie after no action was taken against Rance a couple of weeks ago.

The interesting angle in all this is that the Umpire was standing right next to both players...

a report was made. 

  On 26/06/2017 at 00:58, beelzebub said:

Garry ...whatever backwoods lair you sought solace in needs revisiting. Just stay there.

You've turned into a blubbering fool, a caricature, indeed a parody of your former good ( footy astute ) self.

Mr Lyon. Here's how you save face in future. Keep lips closed 

How the mighty have fallen 

To think that a powerhouse of intellect in Watson has bested you in terms of basic comprehension !!

Oi vey Mr Lyon 

seem to remember hollywood garry did a bit of staging himself during his career

  On 26/06/2017 at 01:03, Luther said:

It didn't look great, but he did cop a bit of elbow to the jaw.

They can't 'make an example' of Clarrie after no action was taken against Rance a couple of weeks ago.

Hang on, one was pushed in the chest with an open hand and the other copped an elbow to the face. An umpire in the elbow incident standing close by, reported the offender immediately for striking. Pretty different incidents you would think.

SEN announcing MRP to look into a possible staging incident in the West. I must say it did look odd, but even a small amount of contact to the chin can reverb badly through your entire head

Im amazed at a few here turning on Clarry. He's perhpas in our top 4 most fearless player on the list. he has no "staging" history and could expect nothing in that situation at all by way of a free or any onfield advantage. Which is what teh whole "staging" debate is really about. This ISNT that. 

I couldnt help but wonder as I read through some of the posts that if that was a COLLINGWOOD player elbowed in the face and felled after half time what the headlines would be. And I doubt anyone in the media would be giving this " stager" thing ANY attention  ...let alone an ex captain and club legend in Lyon. 

I hope schofield  gets a week and Oliver gets 3 votes next weekend against the swans...and goes on to win the brownlow

  On 26/06/2017 at 00:56, Ted Fidge said:

Dunno. I haven't sat him down for an interview.

I know he was hit. But I reckon he just made sure the ump knew it.

 

So in essence you are saying he staged.

How about we take the young man at his word. That he didn't stage. That he was hit (flush on the chin, which when i first saw i missed). That he got a shock. Wasn't expecting it. And went to ground

I have little doubt Oliver asked to speak to Richo and Darcy to make sure it was clear he didn't stage and probably most of all refute any suggestion he was soft. Only to be have old dinosaurs point how glancing the blow was, implying that if he didn't stage he was soft for dropping (you could almost hear their thoughts - 'unlike us, who were warriors and never even flinched when hit')

Rance staged. he wasn't hurt by Buddy. He went to ground hoping to milk a free kick. And got one

Not much chance of Oliver avoiding a 'reputation as a stager' if, even his own fans don't take him at his word. 

 

  On 25/06/2017 at 00:30, DaveyJones'sLocker said:

It didn't look good and I said it straight away i thought it was the equivalent of a dive. He's a young man and I'm not doubting he was caught of guard and there was contact, but I think he will regret it. I'm not going to say he is a repeat offender but I think he has thrown his head back a few times this season which has been the only part of his game I have disliked.

The guy elbowed him on the chin. Other than Oliver, no one knows what force there was. 

Regardless, even a passing glance will do damage to that region. 

Schofield will get suspended for a week. 

I'm learning a few things in this thread.

• All our players are virtuous angels and as pure as the driven snow.
• Only players from other teams play it up or bend the rules.

And if one of our guys had done the identical thing to say Pendlebury or Treloar and they went down, what would be said on here? "He was acting / he's soft / it got him on the shoulder / nothing in it / etc"

Here are the facts as I see them.

• He was hit on the jaw
• He was taken by surprise
• He hammed it up a bit to make sure he ump knew about it
• It wasn't Rance-level award winning stuff. But it was there.
• A fine would be outrageous given that he actually was clipped and if Rance wasn't fined, no-one can ever be fined.

He is in danger of getting a reputation. One more lineball staging event and it could be cemented.

The thing about reputations is they don't have to be fairly earned. One they get going they're hard to stop. Especially in the AFL where fans will defend their players to the hilt while putting the hammer down on oppo players.

He needs to go out there like Viney and snuff it out before it gets going.

  On 26/06/2017 at 01:31, Ted Fidge said:

I'm learning a few things in this thread.

• All our players are virtuous angels and as pure as the driven snow.
• Only players from other teams play it up or bend the rules.

And if one of our guys had done the identical thing to say Pendlebury or Treloar and they went down, what would be said on here? "He was acting / he's soft / it got him on the shoulder / nothing in it / etc"

Here are the facts as I see them.

• He was hit on the jaw
• He was taken by surprise
• He hammed it up a bit to make sure he ump knew about it
• It wasn't Rance-level award winning stuff. But it was there.
• A fine would be outrageous given that he actually was clipped and if Rance wasn't fined, no-one can ever be fined.

He is in danger of getting a reputation. One more lineball staging event and it could be cemented.

The thing about reputations is they don't have to be fairly earned. One they get going they're hard to stop. Especially in the AFL where fans will defend their players to the hilt while putting the hammer down on oppo players.

He needs to go out there like Viney and snuff it out before it gets going.

Just a question - "he hammed it up to make sure the umps knew about it". 

What I  think is being lost in all of this is the timing. You stage and dive in the match to get a free kick, maybe to kick or save a goal. This was after the siren ! 

The likes of Lindsay Thomas stage to win free kicks. There was zero reward on offer for Oliver "diving or staging". 

I can't comment whether he staged or not, only Clarry will know this. But what I know is that the salty Eagles fans tears over this "staging" incident are delicious.

Clarry is as tough as nails.

He got hit in the jaw and went down stunned.

The media have beaten it up as a stage.

Watch the MRP get sucked in and let Schofield off.

If there's a silver lining, Clarry is going to come out breathing fire on Friday night

  On 26/06/2017 at 01:31, Ted Fidge said:

I'm learning a few things in this thread.

• All our players are virtuous angels and as pure as the driven snow.
• Only players from other teams play it up or bend the rules.

And if one of our guys had done the identical thing to say Pendlebury or Treloar and they went down, what would be said on here? "He was acting / he's soft / it got him on the shoulder / nothing in it / etc"

Here are the facts as I see them.

• He was hit on the jaw
• He was taken by surprise
• He hammed it up a bit to make sure he ump knew about it
• It wasn't Rance-level award winning stuff. But it was there.
• A fine would be outrageous given that he actually was clipped and if Rance wasn't fined, no-one can ever be fined.

He is in danger of getting a reputation. One more lineball staging event and it could be cemented.

The thing about reputations is they don't have to be fairly earned. One they get going they're hard to stop. Especially in the AFL where fans will defend their players to the hilt while putting the hammer down on oppo players.

He needs to go out there like Viney and snuff it out before it gets going.

Agree with most of what you said. I refute that he hammed it up, I think he was caught off guard and it got him more than what it looks (like Vince who was also called for hamming it up despite vomiting from the punch to the gut). 

But as you say rolls reversed we'd probably say he was staging. The best way for him to silence everyone is to go as hard as he always does at the first bounce, be smashed as he always is, and get up for the next one, as he always does. 

Does Carrie wear a mouthguard? Doesn't look like it. If he wants to keep his bucky beavers he should wear one as he's only going to get more and more attention.

Clearly there's contact from elbow to jaw. But the reaction was OTT. Carrie would've taken harder hits from his mum. He's young. No big deal. Nothing to see here.

The tip of the elbow is the sweet spot of any forearm whack. And a whack in the chin reverberates throughout the head transferring all the energy. The full energy of the perpetrators arm, body and shoulder strength focuses down to the tip of the elbow which is solid bone with no muscle padding. So a teeny weeny amount of contact will transfer maximum force. Not much different to being tapped with a hammer on the chin. Try it.

All of those that think he was staging really need a smack in the mouth, just so that they can qualify their opinion. A short jab from an elbow is a very effective blow.

  On 26/06/2017 at 00:56, Ted Fidge said:

Dunno. I haven't sat him down for an interview.

I know he was hit. But I reckon he just made sure the ump knew it.

My main point is, you can get a reputation very easily and once made, it's hard to shake. I don't want him talked about the way Shuey and Thomas are. Even Selwood's reputation is tainted.

He was hit, but I think the fact that his head did not noticeably move much, indicated very slight contact, and even at normal speed, the whole thing looked almost like it was in slow motion - that is why people are saying he dived.  Me?...I have no idea whether he was genuinely stunned and went down or whether he over reacted.

One thing is certain though, and that is that Schofield should get weeks (not a week and definitely not a fine) for intent... as far as I'm concerned (and I've said this many times before), the intent is what should be looked at first and acted upon; NOT the impact.

It disturbs me that people are more concerned with how a victim acted as opposed to what the perpetrator did.

  On 26/06/2017 at 01:31, Ted Fidge said:

Here are the facts as I see them.

• He hammed it up a bit to make sure he ump knew about it
• It wasn't Rance-level award winning stuff. But it was there.

 

I find this sort of stuff so frustrating. It is all over social media (and frequently demonland) and is now common in the media where news and commentary gets mixed up. 

The two dot points above ARE NOT FACTS. They are your opinion, pure and simple. And mixing them up with actual FACTS is a very common approach these days, where alternative facts have become the norm.

The only FACTS we can be certain of is that Schofield hit Oliver's jaw with his elbow and that Oliver said himself he did not stage and fell because he was surprised. Both FACTs are irrefutable.

In terms of the second it is possible that Oliver is lying (though it remains a fact that he said he didn't stage). I for one choose to take him at his word. Others can do as they please.   

 

Again: who cares if we'd been saying it was a stage if the roles were reversed. It is not our job to be consistent or measured - but it is our job to support our player when there is significant room for benefit of the doubt. That argument is totally irrelevant. I don't understand why Melbourne supporters would choose the worst position when other ones are credibly on offer.

And +1 for the complaints that this whole conversation is around the actions of the victim and not those of the perpetrator.

  On 26/06/2017 at 02:05, Clint Bizkit said:

It disturbs me that people are more concerned with how a victim acted as opposed to what the perpetrator did.

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post - this is what is wrong with Australian culture: why are you making a thing of it?

'He only hit her once...'

'He only called you a monkey, he didn't know what it meant...'

'That happened 20 years ago, aren't you over it...'

 

Why are you making a thing of it?

 

I can't stand it. Blaming the victim. Exonerating the perpetrator.

Because of the MRP formula, Schofield won't get the penalty he should. The penalty should always be about the action, not the consequence. The AFL likes to lead on progressive issues and a good one well within its purview would be to crackdown on violence. Not only was this "not in play" it wasn't even during game time.

As to the question of staging, I can't see how anybody could "stage" that quickly. Wouldn't it require the brain to make a decision to react? I know Oliver has quick reaction time when he's playing, but that involves muscle memory and lots of training. I can't see how he could have "staged" that response.

It amazes me that people can speculate on intent, impact and result/damage to the 'target', when they were not on the spot at the time.  The Tribunal and MRP have more acute technology to view and of course, in this case, evidence will be taken.

I came into the office this morning and my GM says, what about Oliver taking a dive?  He should be ashamed of himself. 

A response of go and get cattle trucked came to mind, but my wonderful sense of diplomacy took charge .......... thank goodness for that.

There is not a player going around that has not milked any incident for all it's worth, if they thought it would be of benefit to the team.

As far as I am concerned, Clarry was hit by an elbow, on the chin.  In terms of impact and effect, none of us will know for sure, but to me there is no doubt the intent was there.  A glancing blow to the point of the chin, would not be pleasant for anyone.

  On 26/06/2017 at 01:31, Ted Fidge said:

I'm learning a few things in this thread.

• All our players are virtuous angels and as pure as the driven snow.
• Only players from other teams play it up or bend the rules.

And if one of our guys had done the identical thing to say Pendlebury or Treloar and they went down, what would be said on here? "He was acting / he's soft / it got him on the shoulder / nothing in it / etc"

Here are the facts as I see them.

• He was hit on the jaw
• He was taken by surprise
• He hammed it up a bit to make sure he ump knew about it
• It wasn't Rance-level award winning stuff. But it was there.
• A fine would be outrageous given that he actually was clipped and if Rance wasn't fined, no-one can ever be fined.

He is in danger of getting a reputation. One more lineball staging event and it could be cemented.

The thing about reputations is they don't have to be fairly earned. One they get going they're hard to stop. Especially in the AFL where fans will defend their players to the hilt while putting the hammer down on oppo players.

He needs to go out there like Viney and snuff it out before it gets going.

I don't think Clayton hammed it up. I don't think it was that big a hit either. 

The camera angle Ch7 showed was the Over the Shoulder to Schofield so we cannot see what "Really" happened 

a wack on the jaw can certainly suprise anyone and lets not forget

THE UMP WAS RIGHT THERE. The book came out