POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[titan_uranus 24,677]

The rage I'm feeling at this loss is a different kind of rage.

We should be 4-0. In an even competition, where there aren't any obvious basket case teams, we need to be winning games where we are on top for longer than our opponents but, for the second week in a row, we failed to capitalise on the times we had the momentum whilst Fremantle got on top for one quarter and kicked 7 goals to 0.

Did Fremantle even go inside their 50 in the first 10 minutes of the fourth? Yet we only kicked two goals.

Clearly Hogan and Lewis would have helped but we clearly could, and should IMO, have won without them.

Vince played a disgraceful game. It wasn't just the missed chip with two minutes left when trying to ice the clock to a player who didn't know it was coming to him (bad), nor was it the long bomb without lowering his eyes with 60 seconds left (also bad). It was the whole game. A whole game of turnovers, long bombs to Fremantle, being out-positioned, lazy in zoning/defending and lacking in leadership. I was really, really appalled with him today.

Viney has had a terrible first month. Not sure if it's the captaincy or not, but whatever it is, we're playing one short in the midfield at the moment given what he is capable of and not producing.

With Vince and Viney down, and with Lewis and Gawn out of the side, we lacked leadership again today and Jones was off (rolled his ankle I think). There was just no one to stand up and stop the flood in the third quarter, nor were there smarter heads out there to work out what to do with the ball with 2 minutes to go in the last.

Thought Harmes and ANB did a lot right but both have disposal issues (Harmes' miss at the start of the third was quite pivotal, as it turned out). Hannan started well but faded. Garlett was great, as was Watts. Frost a huge improvement on OMac but he was rusty.

15 minutes ago, von said:

Weideman will be fine. Put some weight on that frame he takes more marks and kicks more goals. The sky isn't falling. It's his second year and he's a key forward.

This is 2014 or 2015 talk.

We can't afford to be carrying players who need to "put some weight on" and we can't be dismissing poor performances based on the fact that it's a player's "second year".

He's simply not impacting the game enough. He brings the ball to ground but he runs out of puff too early (today might have been an injury but it's no different when he's fully fit), he's not strong enough, he doesn't follow up when the ball comes to ground, and he doesn't get enough of the ball as a result.

Hogan comes back next week and unless we want to add another tall, he should be dropped for Hogan. And even if we want another tall, I'd still drop him (whether that means Pedersen or Smith, I don't care).

[Monty Kaufman 44]

Wow. I hate the shitfish more than most. But a poor 3rd quarter is the reason we are going to be percentage out of the eight at the end of the round. For mine, the next 3 weeks will tell us if we are going to play finals. The tiges, the bummers and the dawks. Win those 3 and we will play finals. Win 2, and its 50-50. We've got a young list that's been talked up in in the JLT to fill space and time. I'm angry because i thought we should've won today. Same as last week. Calling for sacking this bloke and dropping that bloke is rubbish. It's done. Move on. Go Dees.

[Adam The God 29,444]

Tom McDonald as a defender today. Was he playing in protest at his brother's dropping? What a mug of a game.

[Dante 2,704]

Quote

 

We were out played today and they were to fast/slick for us.

First use of the ball and a team that has a lot of pace and some good mids to back up on the ruck dominance. We were very ordinary today and Weid was terrible, injured early on with w corkie but terrible none the less. Our forwards and backs were ineffectual, like last week we struggled to get a goal and they got theirs without much effort, it really surprised me that we got so close, we were that bad.

They seemed to win every 50/50 contest and just willed themselves to win, I was very disappointed in out team today.

[titan_uranus 24,677]

Also, Vince's missed kick was bad enough but how did we end up with three-on-three in that last inside 50 for McCarthy's goal? How did we have so many players up outside the defensive 50? That's appalling.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,060]

With the gamenon the line in the last quarter,ball in hand and chipping around waiting for the right option i50. Ball gets to Melksham and he decides to launch long to a contest. Wrong. Immediately sent to the goal square. He'll be playing next week at Casey.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Melksham. Please. Get out. Not worthy to wear the red and blue. 

[titan_uranus 24,677]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Another game and another week at selection where you simply shake your head.

Weideman and Hannan should not have played. Can't keep rewarding blokes who have coasted for a couple of weeks. Smith should have stayed in or if not Smith then bring in Pedersen. 

Goody and the selection committee need a good hard look at themselves.

Hannan wasn't half as bad as Weideman, Vince or Melksham.

What role is Melksham even playing right now? He's not providing run like Hunt does, he doesn't kick anywhere near as well as Salem, he's not strong, he doesn't defend like Jetta does. What is he?

[Wizza 170]

So disappointed. It's the little things that always stick in my mind. 

-The bounce of the ball from Kent's handpass to Watts in the goal square. 9/10 times the ball won't do that.

-The bounce of the ball that led to fremantles last goal. Perfectly weighted bounce for McCarthy to run onto. 9/10 times that ball dribble through for a point. Then he gets onto the kick by millimetres.

These little things sum up what it's like to be a melbourne supporter.

obviously there were other moments that were in our control that cost us.

[Adam The God 29,444]

I wanted to punch something on the way out of the ground. I was that frustrated.

I swear I'm one of the only supporters in the MCC who actually uses their voice. It's supposed to be a home game with 28,000 (mostly) Melbourne supporters and it sounded like a library for the majority of the game. I know we've had some lean years, but I would have thought we'd be a lot louder these days.

[Dante 2,704]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

Also, Vince's missed kick was bad enough but how did we end up with three-on-three in that last inside 50 for McCarthy's goal? How did we have so many players up outside the defensive 50? That's appalling.

We have given up several goals in the last minutes of quarters this year and yet when they kicked a goal before half time, I think it was, we had 3 of our best players on the bench.

 

[drdrake 3,124]

The difference one clubs leaders stood up the others went missing.  We plain and simple haven't had any strong leaders since jmac and neitz.  Sick of our players killing our club. Not a quick death but a long slow painful death.

[Little Richard 6,216]

4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Also, Vince's missed kick was bad enough but how did we end up with three-on-three in that last inside 50 for McCarthy's goal? How did we have so many players up outside the defensive 50? That's appalling.

And two of the Freo players at the back of the pack, exactly where the ball was going to land. Pathetic set up.

[bing181 9,007]

39 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Goodwin's first crisis ...

Hyperbole much?

[warren dean 193]

One thing I noticed today was the number of left footers in our side who can't use their right foot and continually either turn into trouble or use handball when they should kick opposite foot.  Bugg, Hannan, Viney, Tyson and Kent all made at least one error today due to the inability to use their wrong side.  Salem was OK on his right but I think this is a real problem and Fremantle were clearly aware of it, as I'm sure everyone else is.

[Diamond_Jim 12,371]

mmmmmmmm

we certainly are not as crash hot as many thought we were but the outs were not helpful.

Freo are a 10 and down team that are 3-4 goals worse in Melbourne than at home.

At best we held our own with them so that is where we are at present.

The saving grace is that there does not appear to be many stand out teams this year unlike last year when 7 or 8 teams quickly took a lock on the final eight.

Watts played well as did Salem, Petracca and Oliver. Garlett was special. Spence did much better than I expected off the ball and is a very welcome addition.

Hard to sound upbeat about that loss.

Not sure what to expect against Richmond

[Redleg 40,233]

46 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

 

We are young but every game we improve and learn

 

Do we? Remember the Saints game last year. Lost in the last 10 seconds. Players didn't go back behind the ball.

Hit the front today, 3 minutes to play, did you notice our structure?

We haven't learned, not one bit. Poor leadership from the box and on field, dumb footballers, dumb leaders, dumb Coaches..

Secondly, we pick poorly skilled players who panic and turn it over.

We haven't learned at all.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Redleg

[Little Richard 6,216]

Never thought we'd be overrated.

[Winners at last 5,166]

I remember reading a post once "God must really hate me. I'm a Demons supporter."

I feel like that now. Gutted. 

The players are on big money. They should do their jobs properly.

I actually put $10 on Freo at $3.20. Ridiculous odds. I wish I'd lost my money.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by bingers

[titan_uranus 24,677]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

Do we? Remember the Saints game last year. Lost in the last 10 seconds. Players didn't go back behind the ball.

Hit the front today, 3 minutes to play, did you notice our structure?

We haven't learned, not one bit. Poor leadership from the box and on field, dumb footballers.

Secondly, we pick poorly skilled players who panic and turn it over.

We haven't learned at all.

Vince also turned it over against Gold Coast last year when trying to ice the game.

We simultaneously tried to ice it too early (beginning with Frost's mark), and then didn't do a proper job of icing it (Vince going short to someone who didn't want it and then not having enough players staying inside defensive 50 for the inevitable turnover).

I still cannot believe that, after we worked it up onto the wing before turning it over, that when they brought it back inside it was a 3-on-3. Should have been a 3-on-10.

[von 1,498]

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

 

 

This is 2014 or 2015 talk.

We can't afford to be carrying players who need to "put some weight on" and we can't be dismissing poor performances based on the fact that it's a player's "second year".

He's simply not impacting the game enough. He brings the ball to ground but he runs out of puff too early (today might have been an injury but it's no different when he's fully fit), he's not strong enough, he doesn't follow up when the ball comes to ground, and he doesn't get enough of the ball as a result.

Hogan comes back next week and unless we want to add another tall, he should be dropped for Hogan. And even if we want another tall, I'd still drop him (whether that means Pedersen or Smith, I don't care).

I disagree. He rarely had a one on one contest. All day it was bombed to him and hogan would have been lucky to clunk any of them.

he was playing the number one role today, which he isn't ready for. Bringing the ball to ground is a win in a three on one in my opinion. That seems to me like impacting the game. They were playing every player in our third all game. Our forwards were constantly swamped. We didn't adjust well enough and when we tried to our delivery wasn't up to scratch. They defended very well.

i think we can afford to carry a few players if it means they develop faster. We aren't winning the flag this year. Next to hogan he looks much better and will learn more than he would in the vfl.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,858]

Freo are better than credited. We don't have leaders that can read momentum swings and adjust accordingly. Lewis missing today hurt a lot. Jones, Tyson and Viney had the least impacting 60+ possessions you will ever see. Vince had possibly the worst 5 minutes in the last of his career. Spencer did as much as you could expect against Sandilands and will be better for it. Oliver and Trac continue to develop. Weids need to go back and develop atCasey, will be a good player but playing him next week and this week is hindering not helping. Take the third out and we win by 40 with some breathtaking pieces of play. The question needs to be asked what the [censored] happened in the third and how do we continue to not know how to shut out the final moments of a game. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by big_red_fire_engine

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, von said:

I disagree. He rarely had a one on one contest. All day it was bombed to him and hogan would have been lucky to clunk any of them.

he was playing the number one role today, which he isn't ready for. Bringing the ball to ground is a win in a three on one in my opinion. That seems to me like impacting the game. They were playing every player in our third all game. Our forwards were constantly swamped. We didn't adjust well enough and when we tried to our delivery wasn't up to scratch. They defended very well.

i think we can afford to carry a few players if it means they develop faster. We aren't winning the flag this year. Next to hogan he looks much better and will learn more than he would in the vfl.

In 2014-2015?  I would agree.  But not now.  We've got a far better list and we are pushing for finals - finals sides don't carry blokes like we are right now.  Weideman will be alright in time, but right now he is a liability.  He can't impact games in any way and we can't have that in a key forward at the moment.

[praha 11,131]

We haven't played finals for so long, that as a club we appear to have forgotten what it takes to get there. Make no mistake that Ross Lyon is eyeing finals. That was a team today that knows exactly what it wants.

We are a club still trying to find an identity. We're stuck in limbo and have been for a while. We peak around the corner but never turn it. 

Any Given Sunday. "Why not us?" I get that it's been a theme at the club, but the season is the battleground. The big test. It's "only" round 4 but the league is more even than it's ever been. We are still well placed but today was a worrying sign. I am not certain we're ready. I don't think we're bad. I actually think we have quite a good team. We're just simply not ready. I know it's tough, guys. It's been 10 years. But it is what it is. We need one more season.

[titan_uranus 24,677]

2 minutes ago, von said:

I disagree. He rarely had a one on one contest. All day it was bombed to him and hogan would have been lucky to clunk any of them.

he was playing the number one role today, which he isn't ready for. Bringing the ball to ground is a win in a three on one in my opinion. That seems to me like impacting the game. They were playing every player in our third all game. Our forwards were constantly swamped. We didn't adjust well enough and when we tried to our delivery wasn't up to scratch. They defended very well.

i think we can afford to carry a few players if it means they develop faster. We aren't winning the flag this year. Next to hogan he looks much better and will learn more than he would in the vfl.

As I said, this is the only way he impacts the game, but we have others on our list (Smith and Pedersen) who can bring the ball to ground but can then do more around the ground.

It doesn't matter who it is, without Hogan Fremantle was always going to gang up on whoever we had left so he can't be blamed for not taking a stack of marks. But it's what he does otherwise that is the worry - currently, outside of marking contests, it's nothing.

And I disagree that we can "afford to carry a few players if it means they develop faster". We are no longer in that phase of our development. We might not be winning the flag this year but there can be no doubt we must aim for finals, and as a result this is not a year for carrying underperforming players.