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The Petracca v McCartin debate reprised

Whispering_Jack
Whispering_Jack
in Melbourne Demons

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6 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:

To Have a debate you need 2 opposing views with reasonable arguments to try and persuade neutrals to your points of view.

There is currently no debate even St Kilda die hards could not argue that Mcartin was the right choice over Petracca so debate over!

If you can kick 7 goals in a VFL game you are not a dill.

Now that may not translate to being very good at AFL level but lets wait a year or two before we declare a victory.

 

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    4 minutes ago, old dee said:

    If you can kick 7 goals in a VFL game you are not a dill.

    Now that may not translate to being very good at AFL level but lets wait a year or two before we declare a victory.

     

    Watts vs Natanui is a case in point.

    This debate was all over years ago, according to a media with a collective IQ of 20 and supporters who refused to look past Natanui's highlights reel. This comparison is far from over. Natunui is a great ruckman when he is fit and firing, but a bit inconsistent. Watts has become a very reliable forward who can pinch hit in the ruck and his disposal, decision making and awareness are elite. Watts wins at this point, though you'll be hard pressed to get anyone outside the MFC and its supporters to agree.

    Time will tell with Petracca and McCartin but at the moment Petracca is obviously miles ahead. Love the kid.

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    • Like 8
     
    On 2017-4-20 at 3:46 PM, ProDee said:

    Not to mention Weideman is still 19.  I think many forget he's still a teenager.

    Darcy Moore is 21 and still struggling.

    so you're saying he will still be struggling at 21?

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    Seven goals in the VFL is a great effort and you can't ask much more from any player.

    I just question whether or not McCartin can translate this to AFL level. It's a bit like Trengove getting 30 possessions in the VFL, he's clearly very good at that level but the way football is played in the AFL it doesn't necessarily mean he will do well at AFL level.

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    48 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

    Seven goals in the VFL is a great effort and you can't ask much more from any player.

    I just question whether or not McCartin can translate this to AFL level. It's a bit like Trengove getting 30 possessions in the VFL, he's clearly very good at that level but the way football is played in the AFL it doesn't necessarily mean he will do well at AFL level.

    Bugg 35 possies and 5 goals for Casey and didn't see him on Sunday. 

    VFL is not the AFL.

    Edited by Redleg

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    • Like 1
    46 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

    Seven goals in the VFL is a great effort and you can't ask much more from any player.

    I just question whether or not McCartin can translate this to AFL level. It's a bit like Trengove getting 30 possessions in the VFL, he's clearly very good at that level but the way football is played in the AFL it doesn't necessarily mean he will do well at AFL level.

    The Clarko saying 'If you can't kick you can't play' is pretty true (even if Melbourne ignore it) but more than anything if you can't run you can't play AFL football. Trenners doesn't have the pace to play AFL these days. McCartin looks quick and agile enough for his role but he doesn't have the tank to play AFL. If he develops it and stays injury free he'll be a very good player. If he keeps breaking down and can't ever get fit then he'll be a bust. I'm hoping the kid makes it for his own sake and then we can just enjoy Petracca without silly comparisons. 

    Petracca's tank is also a mile off where it will end up so I'm keen to see him with a few preseasons when he's fit enough to play midfield, half forward and then rest close to goal. 

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    6 hours ago, old dee said:

    If you can kick 7 goals in a VFL game you are not a dill.

    Think Sylvia kicked 7 for Sandy one week.

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    • Like 4
     
    55 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

    Seven goals in the VFL is a great effort and you can't ask much more from any player.

    I just question whether or not McCartin can translate this to AFL level. It's a bit like Trengove getting 30 possessions in the VFL, he's clearly very good at that level but the way football is played in the AFL it doesn't necessarily mean he will do well at AFL level.

    Agree 

    Stats are very mislesding. Getting 30 as an inside mid at a lower level with lots of stoppages doesn't necessarily teanslate well to etihad where there are less stoppages or the fast break game styles employed in the afl today 

    Edited by Unleash Hell

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    39 minutes ago, 71 Molloy said:

    Think Sylvia kicked 7 for Sandy one week.

    He was not a dill talent wise he just did not want train and work hard enough.

    He may well be the biggest wasted talent at the MFC in the last twenty years. 

    Edited by old dee

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    • Like 3

    1 hour ago, old dee said:

    He was not a dill talent wise he just did not want train and work hard enough.

    He may well be the biggest wasted talent at the MFC in the last twenty years. 

    I think Liam may be in with a decent claim for that title.

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    • Like 2
    On 4/1/2017 at 10:21 AM, Deestroy All said:

    Age old debate of needs v best available. 

    They went with needs. Not knowing that Bruce and Membry would come on as goalkickers. 

    What they did know was that Petracca has all the talent in the world, and they knew what their midfield did and didn't have and what was developing. 

    When I add all that up they made a mistake. They overrated their midfield. They could have Josh Kennedy at FF and it wouldn't help if the midfield can't get it to him.

    Petracca is built for the modern game, I'm not so sure McCartin is. Saints would probably even be better off with Trac at FF. 

    I recall them saying the Buddy deal and the Boyd deal had re-set the market for key forwards. You had to draft them because they were going to become unaffordable.  They choose to take the best Key fwd available.

     

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    On 20 April 2017 at 2:49 PM, Redleg said:

    Not from 13 metres out.

    Couldn't believe it when he missed that shot, surprising as he is a really good kick.  He did have a very bad corkie so I think that kick was a bit of an anomaly.

    Edited by grazman

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    49 minutes ago, Skuit said:

    I think Liam may be in with a decent claim for that title.

    Actually... you're correct

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    33 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

    I recall them saying the Buddy deal and the Boyd deal had re-set the market for key forwards. You had to draft them because they were going to become unaffordable.  They choose to take the best Key fwd available.

     

    But then they become unaffordable anyway and after you've invested in their development (though I suppose you get greater trade returns). Anyway, I wonder if this same mentality led us to Weid contrary to what Roos had previously said about not drafting key bigs early.

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    2 hours ago, Skuit said:

    I think Liam may be in with a decent claim for that title.

    Happy to have Sylvia run second Skuit. You are correct Liam was the winner of that dubious title.

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    club made a big error in drafting for needs instead of best available when going for Wiedeman. forced the issue and i think we have Lucas cook Mk2. i get the whole 'talls take time ' argument and totally agree.

    However , GOOD talls that take time, show some glimpses along the journey. Weed shows no hunger for the contest nor ability to find the ball. of course hes got a limited tank but the talented fwds show a bit. 

    Weed is a bust i fear. 

    Goldne rule - draft best available and trade for needs using the players drafted as currency. Club forced it out of desperation for a F50 partner for Hogan. we will regret it

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    33 minutes ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

    Goldne rule - draft best available and trade for needs using the players drafted as currency. Club forced it out of desperation for a F50 partner for Hogan. we will regret it

    Ok, i'll bite. At pick #9, who do you think we should have drafted instead of Weideman?

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    2 hours ago, Fitz Fitzpatrick said:

    club made a big error in drafting for needs instead of best available when going for Wiedeman. forced the issue and i think we have Lucas cook Mk2. i get the whole 'talls take time ' argument and totally agree.

    However , GOOD talls that take time, show some glimpses along the journey. Weed shows no hunger for the contest nor ability to find the ball. of course hes got a limited tank but the talented fwds show a bit. 

    Weed is a bust i fear. 

    Goldne rule - draft best available and trade for needs using the players drafted as currency. Club forced it out of desperation for a F50 partner for Hogan. we will regret it

    Weid is in his second year and already playing AFL footy. Cook was delisted after 2 years. Weid is clearly a vastly superior player. I take your point, but if you want people to take you seriously, probably best you lay off the hyperbole a bit.

    Casey watchers last year said he attacks the ball in the air. We've seen first hand that he is also capable of moving the ball very quickly and involving himself in general play - see Hawks game last year. He's only 19 - you have gone way too early I reckon. 

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    • Like 12
    9 hours ago, old dee said:

    Happy to have Sylvia run second Skuit. You are correct Liam was the winner of that dubious title.

    Hmmm, racking my brain, which Liam?

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    15 minutes ago, Nasher said:

    Weid is in his second year and already playing AFL footy. Cook was delisted after 2 years. Weid is clearly a vastly superior player. I take your point, but if you want people to take you seriously, probably best you lay off the hyperbole a bit.

    Casey watchers last year said he attacks the ball in the air. We've seen first hand that he is also capable of moving the ball very quickly and involving himself in general play - see Hawks game last year. He's only 19 - you have gone way too early I reckon. 

    Whilst this is a Petracca thread, I must agree with you on Weid - comparing him with Cook is ludicrous.   The 19yo played a good debut, and agreed hasn't had a real impact since, but give a year or so with the occasional senior game I strongly think we will see a very good player, though maybe not a superstar.  His last game was played with a significant leg injury almost from the start, so judging him on that performance is harsh.

     

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    4 minutes ago, Danelska said:

    Hmmm, racking my brain, which Liam?

    That's how wasted he was. Jurrah.

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    •  
    15 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

    Paul Robinson's article on Petracca.

    https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/04/melbourne-young-gun-better-than-ablett-and-gray/

    We got Oliver being touted as a potential brownlow medalist, Petracca being compared favorably to Ablett and Gray at the same age. Meanwhile Jayden Hunt is absolutely carving up sides with his run and carry. Good times.

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    • Like 4
    On 01/05/2017 at 11:15 AM, old dee said:

    If you can kick 7 goals in a VFL game you are not a dill.

    Now that may not translate to being very good at AFL level but lets wait a year or two before we declare a victory.

     

    He kicked it against Collingwoods VFL team while Reid was rested and Dunn was playing AFL.. 

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