Don't like the wrap that Spencer is getting, hoping the coaches look at it more holistically. Yes he kicked 3 goals, but it was often just being in the right place at the right time. He didn't cover the ground particularly well, and didn't dominate the hit outs. Plus he doesn't offer much in open play with the ball in hand.

Having him and Gawn leaves us waaaaayy too tall in our forward half. If we're concerned about a lack of forward pressure... well a primary reason is right there.

He's clearly put a lot of effort in, and is a capable back up (who would get a gig at plenty of other clubs), but he detracts from what we're trying to do.

14 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Sure.

But there is a spectrum of levels within.

And within that spectrum, you and I are in very different places.

And I am pleased to be in that place.

26 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Sure.

But there is a spectrum of levels within.

And within that spectrum, you and I are in very different places.

Gestalt!!!!!

24 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Gestalt!!!!!

Or zeitgeist?

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

 

Would like to see a diagram of grounds superimposed over each other.. I understand Subi has deep pockets as well and is less of an 'oval' shape....

@jnrmac best I could do.

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by Night Crawler

6 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

He is a star and will go close to AA selection this year

I stand by my comments!  he is an excellent  in and under but his skill level is just so! He tries to beat every tackle. His first instinct is the take on the players. This MUST be remedied before he goes anywhere near AA. IMV

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by picket fence

1 hour ago, watchtheeyes said:

Don't like the wrap that Spencer is getting, hoping the coaches look at it more holistically. Yes he kicked 3 goals, but it was often just being in the right place at the right time. He didn't cover the ground particularly well, and didn't dominate the hit outs. Plus he doesn't offer much in open play with the ball in hand.

Having him and Gawn leaves us waaaaayy too tall in our forward half. If we're concerned about a lack of forward pressure... well a primary reason is right there.

He's clearly put a lot of effort in, and is a capable back up (who would get a gig at plenty of other clubs), but he detracts from what we're trying to do.

Are you serious? 

Anybody can recruit a big brute of a bloke who is aggressive and fast. It is much harder to teach them where to run or as you put it be in the right place at the right time.

7 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Are you serious? 

Anybody can recruit a big brute of a bloke who is aggressive and fast. It is much harder to teach them where to run or as you put it be in the right place at the right time.

That may be the case, but the rest of his point (which you failed to highlight) is valid - he doesn't cover the open spaces well, didn't win a huge amount of hit outs in the ruck and doesn't offer a whole lot around the ground.  I'll give him his due in that he kicked 3 goals and gave us a target up forward, but he provided little else.

I'll be very, very nervous if he gets picked for Round 1 as I don't think it will suit Etihad or help us stop the Saints' run from half back.  I'd love to be proved wrong but I just don't see it happening.

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

All good points, Steve.  Can't argue with much of that.

I thought your point about our entries inside 50 was pretty much spot on.  We've got too many tall forwards at the minute who like the ball kicked on their head.  Hogan loves it and, when he gets the chance of a one on one contest, he can beat anybody and take the mark.  The problem is getting it to him quickly enough.  Gawn and Spencer aren't your leading types, which is why I think they like playing Weideman as his game is predicated on leading and marking the footy (even though he didn't get near it last night).  Dunstall touched on it for most of the night, in that we dominated periods of the game but our usage once we got it to half forward wasn't up to scratch.

The small forwards are a secondary issue, but it was quite prevalent that we missed their influence once the ball hit the deck last night.

Think Gunston perhaps as an example of what we need

a wonderful forward but he gets the ball by leading and positioning. Rarely have I seen him take a contested mark.... he doesn't need to.

Would love to see Watts develop his leading skills

52 minutes ago, Night Crawler said:

@jnrmac best I could do.

Thanks for that! I can see why they refer to the deep pockets at Subi....

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by jnrmac

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Think Gunston perhaps as an example of what we need

a wonderful forward but he gets the ball by leading and positioning. Rarely have I seen him take a contested mark.... he doesn't need to.

Would love to see Watts develop his leading skills

I reckon his leading skills are fine. it would help if his teammates kicked it to him, which until last season they didn't seemed inclined to do

7 hours ago, jackaub said:

Can somebody please gag Dermot before the season starts and keep him gagged 

His inane chatter and over analysis drives me insane

Watch channel seven then for amazing under-analysis such as "a goal would really help such and such team right now"

We basically didn't move the ball quickly enough. West Coast used lightening hands and quick kicks to pierce our forward press and we moved it to half forward too slowly and ended up bombing long to contests hoping Gawn, Spencer, Weideman, Hogan or Watts would take a mark, but they didn't.

If you compare the ball use and forward 50 entries of West Coast, how many times did Kennedy mark either on his own or way out on a lead? The answer is too many. We played into their hands with slow ball movement and then couldn't disrupt their rebound off half back for long enough.

5 hours ago, faultydet said:

 

 

Now, if we could just stop kicking to the opposition.

We would win a few more games.

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Are you serious? 

Anybody can recruit a big brute of a bloke who is aggressive and fast. It is much harder to teach them where to run or as you put it be in the right place at the right time.

My opinion is that more applies to their positioning around the ground, in the case of last night the ball was dropped on his head inside forward 50 for which there is little nous involved. His direction would've been, "Spence, when you're not rucking get forward and stand inside the 50". Aint rocket science.

I guess my point more is that if anyone else was in that position, then they also would've kicked the goal, he didn't create the opportunity. So why must it be him standing there if he detracts in so many other areas..? There aren't many occasions over the years when I've seen him kick a goal as a result of a great contested mark, or piece of skill (aside from that grab in Geelong falling backwards).

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by watchtheeyes

As was pointed out to me today, to lose by 4-5 goals against a good team on their deck when only two players played very good games shows there's a bit to take out of the hitout.

Other than Oliver and Hunt, I'd say not one other player played what they'd call a good/very good game.

That's somewhat an issue in itself, as we need Brayshaw, Petracca, Stretch, Viney, etc. to start making a real impact THIS year.  Top notch 21-22 year olds start making an impact at AFL level.  For us to be the team we expect we need these players to start impacting games in 2017.

8 hours ago, loges said:

How did Weideman go and is he up to it for round 1?

He is the future, lovely attack on the ball at highest point. Beautiful kick.

Not yet for mine, Ped would give us more chance to win now imho.

Despite Viney going missing in the first half, Trac being off trac, Oscar having walked the nullabour, Tyson forgetting in the off season that we are red and blue not gold and blue and our inability our zone to move with the the Weagles switch it wasn't too bad.  A timely reminder to a young team. What we did see was clear evidence we are not far off being a consistent team. Minus Tysons direct turnovers by foot and Oscar being outworked by Kennedy it would have been a tight run thing. Still plenty to get excited about compared to previous years.

Oliver and Hunt, fantastic. Gawn was dominant in the ruck despite not having his best game.

Personally i cant wait for round one despite it being St Kilda which will be a tough game.  

I have watched the replay and feel positive.We were 9 points behind half through the last quarter.Sure they kicked  another couple of goals but we weren't smashed.When is the coach going to teach our key forwards to lead like Kennedy?

5 hours ago, watchtheeyes said:

Don't like the wrap that Spencer is getting, hoping the coaches look at it more holistically. Yes he kicked 3 goals, but it was often just being in the right place at the right time. He didn't cover the ground particularly well, and didn't dominate the hit outs. Plus he doesn't offer much in open play with the ball in hand.

Having him and Gawn leaves us waaaaayy too tall in our forward half. If we're concerned about a lack of forward pressure... well a primary reason is right there.

He's clearly put a lot of effort in, and is a capable back up (who would get a gig at plenty of other clubs), but he detracts from what we're trying to do.

The thing that was clear last night is you cant play him and Weideman. One is getting to the right place at the right time and last night made it count and is an able ruckman. The other is not getting to the right place as much, when he does is not making it count and cannot play ruck. Weid will be fine but needs development at Casey. I want to see him dominating games, particularly whilst we have potentially another option. Hogan, Watts and Spencer/Gawn as the talls with periods where we just have Hogan/Watts on ground surrounded by mid sized forwards is where we should head for round 1. 

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by big_red_fire_engine

Clayton Oliver was super impressive. Could be A grade Star IMO.

6 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I guess that is what one would call a serious case of cognitive bias.

So much so that it's clearly affected your ability to see on a television. 

No-one's immune to cognitive biases in the same way that no-one's immune to optical illusions.

This includes you, and "no-one else can see what's in front of their eyes but I can" is as good an illustration of Bias Blindspot and Confirmation Bias as you'd find.

Tom's main problem is that he looks gangly and uncoordinated - the Halo Effect* does the rest.

(*the tendency to think that because someone's good/bad at A, they'll also be good/bad at B, C, D etc.)

7 hours ago, picket fence said:

On Viney, he is a very limited footballer who plays and scraps like a bulldog but with not too much skill. My other major concern with him is, every time he gets the ball his first instinct is to beat the pack. This must be eradicated from his game.Oppositions will be onto this fact!

Jones also does this but to less a degree.

 

7 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

He is a star and will go close to AA selection this year

 

5 hours ago, picket fence said:

I stand by my comments!  he is an excellent  in and under but his skill level is just so! He tries to beat every tackle. His first instinct is the take on the players. This MUST be remedied before he goes anywhere near AA. IMV

This one I have to agree with 'picket' on and have stated it a few times recently.

Jack has to involve his teammates and play smart football.

He might think he's trying to lift the team but to me it comes across as selfish school boy football.

He's a gutsy, tough kid and a good player but would be so much better if he made better decisions.

 

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by rjay

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

As was pointed out to me today, to lose by 4-5 goals against a good team on their deck when only two players played very good games shows there's a bit to take out of the hitout.

Other than Oliver and Hunt, I'd say not one other player played what they'd call a good/very good game.

That's somewhat an issue in itself, as we need Brayshaw, Petracca, Stretch, Viney, etc. to start making a real impact THIS year.  Top notch 21-22 year olds start making an impact at AFL level.  For us to be the team we expect we need these players to start impacting games in 2017.

It's hard to tell on the TV and with the zone defence but I'm pretty sure Hunt was responsible for LeCras early on when he managed to get out on his own.

The balance of offence and defence is going to be one of his challenges.

Along with our field kicking if we get more of the same.

It was hot. We did not field our best team. There were turnovers galore, a couple of crooked decisions, but we was THERE. Viney was down, Gawn couldn't crack a mark and a couple of bounces went westwards. However, we was in the West and the West, fielding their best, won. If I were a demon player, I would look forward to playing them there on a level playing field.

Do not despair, brothers, sisters, and the Biff-like go-betweens, we are close to being there.

Edited March 10, 20178 yr by dieter