The "Viney can't kick" stigma...fair or unfair?

[Little Goffy 14,174]

His kicking is unexceptional, but not a huge problem. Still, would be great to see him follow the lead of our other captain and season by season tidy up one issue after another. It would also help if our team was a little better at spreading and leading to give good options.

He's also definitely not slow - to me he seems exceptionally quick over short distances, but not the kind of swooping long flights that players like Hunt can do.

He's got the right kind of speed for the role he plays.

[Adzman 2,154]

People go on about Viney's kicking like he is the second coming of Simon Godfrey.

Viney isn't elite but he is solid by foot.

[Phadraig 760]

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

I can live with the odd poorly weighted kick.  Without pressure he usually hits his target. 

I'd like to see him more composed under pressure.  The better mids, like Hannebery, make better decisions and have cleaner disposals in extreme heat. 

I'm sure he's working on it, but for me it's the aspect of his game he needs to work on most. 

I may have been too critical of Jones in his first 4 or so years but since then he has steadily improved his efficiency by foot under pressure and I hope that Viney can do the same, it is his biggest weakness by far. Jones has improved from 5/10 to about 7/10 in my view.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

6 hours ago, Akum said:

Certainly wasn't slow when he chased & brought down Mav Weller.

There are many on DL who think we have a slow midfield it's just not true,  Jones might not be super fast he runs at his top pace all day

[Adam The God 29,706]

The criticism is fair, but he has certainly improved his kicking in the last twelve months. I'd expect our coaches to continue to help him improve this too.

Unlike his old man, we actually have some good coaches around to help him iron out any of those deficiencies. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by A F

[rjay 24,689]

Jack's problem is decision making.

There are times he takes on too much and/or times when he needs to bring teammates in.

...puts too much pressure on himself & the team.

If he sorts this he won't be Darren Jarman in the kicking stakes but he will be ok.

Edited March 7, 2017 by rjay

[Satyriconhome 10,471]

[censored]  don't know how Jack sleeps at night, co captain of the club, rated in top 50 by other AFL players, reigning B&F....

..

[RalphiusMaximus 6,013]

He's put a lot of work into his kicking.  A few years ago he really was terrible. He struggled to get it past 30m or so and rarely hit his targets.  Now he's got his range out to more like the 50m mark and his accuracy has improved dramatically.  I think we can say he's at least as good a kick as TMac. 

[rjay 24,689]

13 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

[censored]  don't know how Jack sleeps at night, co captain of the club, rated in top 50 by other AFL players, reigning B&F....

..

Still a work in progress 'Sat'...he's going ok & will get better.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

24 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

[censored]  don't know how Jack sleeps at night, co captain of the club, rated in top 50 by other AFL players, reigning B&F....

..

I bet you do know how he sleeps.

[TRIGON 4,783]

25 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

[censored]  don't know how Jack sleeps at night, co captain of the club, rated in top 50 by other AFL players, reigning B&F....

..

Better than us if you're posting and I'm reading at midnight!

[Satyriconhome 10,471]

7 hours ago, TRIGON said:

Better than us if you're posting and I'm reading at midnight!

Just finished work, will check with Charlotte on his sleeping patterns

[ickey_11 145]

On 07/03/2017 at 8:37 AM, ArtificialWisdom said:

Yeah i think Viney has the Vanders problem. Seems to slot the difficult ones and miss the easy ones

Actually Vanders goal kicking and kicking in general, improved last year. Viney, although not that bad, has not improved in accuracy but he is getting more distance now than when he started play AFL.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Just now, ickey_11 said:

Actually Vanders goal kicking and kicking in general, improved last year. Viney, although not that bad, has not improved in accuracy but he is getting more distance now than when he started play AFL.

Vanders set shot is among the best but on the run he is still pretty bad. A trait the is pretty unique given everyone elses tendancy to get worse in a set shot, And look its a well known fact that Viney will very occasionally butcher the ball but is overall output is far better than that so i dont think we need to complain about it. Although i think the same thing about TMac but he doesnt get nearly as much love despite his good traits also far outwaying his kicking.

[John Crow Batty 8,832]

I would like to see Viney try to move the ball out a lot quicker at stoppages. While it looks good seeing him barge through packs less holding of the ball is better than too much. Should be more like Sam Mitchell or Oliver. He and Jones just want to do it all in packs where  more often than not the ball goes nowhere when they take first possession.  Less than perfect foot disposal would not be an issue if he became a slicker and efficient inside ball user. It's not of how much of the ball an inside player gets its more about what they do with it. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by america de cali

[Deespicable 2,691]

Can original poster P-man explain where he got his "Viney would be a gun if he wasn't a butcher" line from.

I read a lot of papers but I've never read that comment about him.

Certainly in his first year under Roos he had to get out of the "Neeld encouraged" habit of dropping it on his boot madly to clear a pack. Vince had to do this as well and my understanding is that under Roos, they received instruction on how retaining possession by handballing or kicking sidewards or backwards was better than just blazing away to a 2on1 contest. And they bought into it, as most would when replays showed you the outcome of blazing.

I certainly noticed a huge difference in Viney's decision making in 2015 and it continued in 2016 and because of his strength he was often able to break free of contests and be damaging as well as occasionally going backwards.

As to his kicking technique, as Colin B asserts, he is not flawed with his ball drop like his dad was, and he also has benefitted from better tuition at the club in the past three years.

The result is that he is now quite a good kick - obviously being small he can't kick it 60m - but he usually hits a target when he gets free.

The thing people have to remember is that Fyfe and Danger and Viney and other stars invariably are being chased by a tag and don't get to relax with their kick nearly as much as a half-back flanker. So you have to decide if the kick was impacted and expectations are too high.

 

[P-man 13,366]

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Can original poster P-man explain where he got his "Viney would be a gun if he wasn't a butcher" line from.

I read a lot of papers but I've never read that comment about him.

I was more referring to footy forums and from the mouths of others. It's a comment that in MY experience is often made regarding Viney - "Great player but". Rightly or wrongly that seems to be the label that he carries. 

JV has been one of my favourite players from day dot hence why the comment sticks with me and I wanted to see how much it reflected reality in the eyes of other supporters. I wouldn't say he's now a good kick, but I have certainly seen improvement. 

[Ted Lasso 18,926]

20 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

[censored]  don't know how Jack sleeps at night, co captain of the club, rated in top 50 by other AFL players, reigning B&F....

..

No need to worry about developing or trying to improve areas of his game then? 

In my opinion if jack improves his kicking he could be the best mid in the comp. 

[Pates 9,632]

He's a good kick when he can take a little time but because he's clearing the congestion a lot I think his kicks can be quite rushed. Aside from that he's mostly pretty good in my eyes (though I could be seeing it through rose coloured glasses!). 

[Satyriconhome 10,471]

2 hours ago, Abe said:

No need to worry about developing or trying to improve areas of his game then? 

In my opinion if jack improves his kicking he could be the best mid in the comp. 

He does and wants to improve, doesn't need the'experts' on here telling him

He has a great teacher in not only Jonesy who is getting better with age, but a leftie called Lewis as well

[Deestroy All 14,262]

12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

He does and wants to improve, doesn't need the'experts' on here telling him

He has a great teacher in not only Jonesy who is getting better with age, but a leftie called Lewis as well

I didn't realise Demonland is a direct line to the Viney batphone. 

No one is telling him [censored]. It's a discussion and a valid one. 

The only one running around telling the players anything is you. 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 08/03/2017 at 7:43 AM, Satyriconhome said:

will check with Charlotte on his sleeping patterns

 

Weird.

Really weird.

[nutbean 8,838]

9 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

He does and wants to improve, doesn't need the'experts' on here telling him

He has a great teacher in not only Jonesy who is getting better with age, but a leftie called Lewis as well

I am usually circumspect when it comes to criticism of you but isn't discussing the team and players strengths and weaknesses what this forum is about ?

We are not telling "him" anything - we are discussing what most would agree is a valid discussion point.

I don't think one poster on this forum would want anything more than for Viney to improve further because I would suggest that he is universally loved on this site for his uncompromising attack on the contest. 

I hate the phrase "bleeds red and blue" when it is applied to players but Viney comes pretty close.

Edited March 8, 2017 by nutbean

[dazzledavey36 53,510]

9 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

I didn't realise Demonland is a direct line to the Viney batphone. 

No one is telling him [censored]. It's a discussion and a valid one. 

The only one running around telling the players anything is you. 

 

Just quoting this again because its so good.

[Satyriconhome 10,471]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Just quoting this again because its so good.

Gee school was out early