OSCAR McDONALD

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, Generation dee said:

Look, I for one get what you're saying. The thing is, omac is going to not only learn quicker, but become more comfortable and better suited where he is. Playing him in the vfl for any extended period just slows that down. There's going to be short term pain, as you've alluded to we have leaked goals at times.

But the more these 5 or 6 play together, the more cohesive they get. The more they understand each other's style and reading of the play. Oscar goes back to the vfl and for the next few weeks he plays on respectable vfl key forwards.. let's say he shows some signs of improvement. The thing is he then has to come back to afl level, with different team mates and better opposition, and improve all over again. 

In a round about way, I'm trying to say,wouldn't it be better that he showed that improvement and gained that confidence in the ones, playing cohesive with the other long term senior defenders? You know yourself that if he lines up on Cox, Cloke or white this week, and he manages to play another game better than the last (IMO has slightly improved each week) and defends well, rebounds well, then his short term confidence will grow quicker. Dropping him now after 3 weeks where he has started to adjust would just sap an confidence he has gained.

I only look at it that he is obviously earmarked to be a long term key back for us, why not continue to back him in and learn from his mistakes, knowing that he will get better with continuity and confidence. If he played every game from now til the end of 2017 he will be around the 40 game mark, which is when you'll really start to see more of a complete player.*

*yes I understand the variables associated with that comment, and I imply it that while he positively contributes he is earning games, not being "gifted"

By that logic, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and Blease should be our starting midfield by now.

You don't just plonk them in the deep end. We've surely moved on from that mentality? Are you happy with how Weideman is being developed?

 

[Generation dee 1,336]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

By that logic, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and Blease should be our starting midfield by now.

You don't just plonk them in the deep end. We've surely moved on from that mentality? Are you happy with how Weideman is being developed?

 

Note the Asterix at the end saying there are variables. And no need to completely overblown what I said. Oscar Macdonald is a second year player who has had minimal injuries through his juniors even leading up to this season (sans the ankle this year)

Weiderman played minimal footy in his final 2 years of underage footy, which ultimately lead to question marks over his draft status, on top of that is a first year player. You want to make any other irrelevant comparisons?

Had you of focused on my post amd the points I made, I stated that surely as long as omac positively contributes in the short term, he should keep his spot in the long term. Would you agree that's a fair comment? 

As an aside for your irrelevant quoting of past drafted players, I think it's obvious there is a difference in the quality of development staff, coaching and the whole football department. Scully is playing fantastic football at GWS, Trengove could have been an all Australian or delisted, and you'd have better luck predicting PowerBall numbers than knowing how they would go had they been drafted into a half professional club. But that's a whole different argument that's been done to death amd we will never know.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Generation dee said:

Note the Asterix at the end saying there are variables. And no need to completely overblown what I said. Oscar Macdonald is a second year player who has had minimal injuries through his juniors even leading up to this season (sans the ankle this year)

Weiderman played minimal footy in his final 2 years of underage footy, which ultimately lead to question marks over his draft status, on top of that is a first year player. You want to make any other irrelevant comparisons?

Had you of focused on my post amd the points I made, I stated that surely as long as omac positively contributes in the short term, he should keep his spot in the long term. Would you agree that's a fair comment? 

As an aside for your irrelevant quoting of past drafted players, I think it's obvious there is a difference in the quality of development staff, coaching and the whole football department. Scully is playing fantastic football at GWS, Trengove could have been an all Australian or delisted, and you'd have better luck predicting PowerBall numbers than knowing how they would go had they been drafted into a half professional club. But that's a whole different argument that's been done to death amd we will never know.

Look I think we're saying similar-ish things. I just don't like the idea of putting him in the seniors and leaving him there as it's not the best thing for his development IMO.

You don't have to play poorly to go back to VFL for a rest and/or to focus on specific things without the pressure of AFL. Personally I think Hunt, Wagner and Harmes need to start having rotating rests BEFORE any of them hit the wall and start playing poorly. To me, that's what managing development is all about, pacing it out, being patient and using the VFL as a development tool rather than a punishment. VFL game should not "slow down" development as you go there to work on specific things and/or gain confidence, two crucial aspects to a young footballer, especially a KPP.

 

 

[bing181 8,176]

4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I don't know that we lack quality as such, but depth is a bit of an issue at present.

I don't know that it is per se. Two of our first call HB are out long term - H and Salem. We still have White in the wings, and from all reports, he's developing nicely. We then have the McDo's and Frost as KPD, with Dunn and Garland (OK, not quite KPD) and even Grimes as backup - not to mention Melksham. Presumably we'll pick up someone in the draft or trade, and while I know Hulett is being played forward, I wonder if they don't also see him as a possibility down back in the long-term. (.... online musing, with no basis in fact!)

I think what has most hurt us is missing the first two there, Salem and Lumumba, though equally, I don't know that there's too much lacking from our back stocks that another season or two of experience won't sort out.

Edited June 7, 2016 by bing181
forgot Melksham ...

[jnrmac 19,128]

10 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I don't know that it is per se. Two of our first call HB are out long term - H and Salem. We still have White in the wings, and from all reports, he's developing nicely. We then have the McDo's and Frost as KPD, with Dunn and Garland (OK, not quite KPD) and even Grimes as backup - not to mention Melksham. Presumably we'll pick up someone in the draft or trade, and while I know Hulett is being played forward, I wonder if they don't also see him as a possibility down back in the long-term. (.... online musing, with no basis in fact!)

I think what has most hurt us is missing the first two there, Salem and Lumumba, though equally, I don't know that there's too much lacking from our back stocks that another season or two of experience won't sort out.

Still lacking someone to take on the big tall forwards. 

[Generation dee 1,336]

21 minutes ago, stuie said:

Look I think we're saying similar-ish things. I just don't like the idea of putting him in the seniors and leaving him there as it's not the best thing for his development IMO.

You don't have to play poorly to go back to VFL for a rest and/or to focus on specific things without the pressure of AFL. Personally I think Hunt, Wagner and Harmes need to start having rotating rests BEFORE any of them hit the wall and start playing poorly. To me, that's what managing development is all about, pacing it out, being patient and using the VFL as a development tool rather than a punishment. VFL game should not "slow down" development as you go there to work on specific things and/or gain confidence, two crucial aspects to a young footballer, especially a KPP.

 

 

Whilst I do agree, you and I will have different views in what is best for him as opposed to the FD.

I also agree on the breaks,keeping a player fresh before they get burnt out. Even though hunt is in his first few matches, he's still been on the list 3 years, so he has done a lot of training. Wagner being a bit older as well. The whole dynamic of the defence changes with lamumba there. You see how highly they value his leadership. We havent seen his best in his time at the dees, but he seems to orgsnise and defence.

But back to oscar. In my opinion if he keeps positively contributing, he stays. As soon as his output becomes a negative, then I'm all for a vfl stint. 

[Generation dee 1,336]

13 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I don't know that it is per se. Two of our first call HB are out long term - H and Salem. We still have White in the wings, and from all reports, he's developing nicely. We then have the McDo's and Frost as KPD, with Dunn and Garland (OK, not quite KPD) and even Grimes as backup - not to mention Melksham. Presumably we'll pick up someone in the draft or trade, and while I know Hulett is being played forward, I wonder if they don't also see him as a possibility down back in the long-term. (.... online musing, with no basis in fact!)

I think what has most hurt us is missing the first two there, Salem and Lumumba, though equally, I don't know that there's too much lacking from our back stocks that another season or two of experience won't sort out.

Good points, how would you see our back 6 line up if all players were available? Excluding milkshake. 

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Generation dee said:

Whilst I do agree, you and I will have different views in what is best for him as opposed to the FD.

I also agree on the breaks,keeping a player fresh before they get burnt out. Even though hunt is in his first few matches, he's still been on the list 3 years, so he has done a lot of training. Wagner being a bit older as well. The whole dynamic of the defence changes with lamumba there. You see how highly they value his leadership. We havent seen his best in his time at the dees, but he seems to orgsnise and defence.

But back to oscar. In my opinion if he keeps positively contributing, he stays. As soon as his output becomes a negative, then I'm all for a vfl stint. 

I'm looking forward to having a fit Lumumba, Melksham and a (fingers crossed) mature bodied key back next year. Will totally change the dynamic of the backline and will only help the development of the stick brigade we have there right now.

 

[Generation dee 1,336]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

I'm looking forward to having a fit Lumumba, Melksham and a (fingers crossed) mature bodied key back next year. Will totally change the dynamic of the backline and will only help the development of the stick brigade we have there right now.

 

I just quoted a post prior to this, but who would your proffered back 6 be? Excluding milkshake as we haven't seen him yet to include him. Do you think oscar, Tom, frost and jetta would defend better if they had lamumba and Salem? What mixture? I'm curious, as I think my point with Oscar's development is strengthened if he is surrounded by more experience with lamumba, bugg and next year possibly melksham

[stuie 7,374]

2 hours ago, Generation dee said:

I just quoted a post prior to this, but who would your proffered back 6 be? Excluding milkshake as we haven't seen him yet to include him. Do you think oscar, Tom, frost and jetta would defend better if they had lamumba and Salem? What mixture? I'm curious, as I think my point with Oscar's development is strengthened if he is surrounded by more experience with lamumba, bugg and next year possibly melksham

I'd have Frost and OMac competing for the same spot, so they'd likely be back and forth a little until one of them makes the position their own.

It's hard to pick an ultimate back 6 without adjusting it slightly to the opposition, but Lumumba (experience, leadership, confidence) and Salem (poise, skill) definitely play vital roles when the other blokes are all a little more erratic. Jetta, Lumumba, Salem and TMac are the absolute locks, then adjust from there, probably with one of Frost/OMac/Dunn/Garland and then one of Hunt and Wagner on the bench, or vice versa.

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,673]

5 hours ago, stuie said:

I was always here, let's just say I've "blocked" out a few distractions....

 

No SatAy chicken tonight then?

[dieter 3,325]

Poor Omac has copped more than enough abuse on this site. The bottom line is that MFC is seriously depleted down back, that we are NOT going to make the finals this year, that Oscar is a work in progress, that he shows enough to bear perseverance, and the more games he gets under his belt this year will 'hopefully' boost his confidence in himself and if any of you rabid posters have ever played the game, that element of self-confidence is half of what it takes.

It does raise the question about the recruiting balance between midfielders, forwards and backs. Then again, we WERE such a friggin basket case that the recruiters had to start somewhere. The question of 'balance' is still in the balance. You can't have a team of just midfielders...

[beelzebub 22,244]

Bear with me, I'll get there....

Was watching NCIS last night ( little choice at that time )  but the theme , or under message , running through this episode was "trust your training "

The point being as you learn the various counter manouvers and methods of fighting , as you experience the simulations  and put it into practice  you learn 'ways of dealing with things"  This is the training. It is important I feel to note that the training whilst always trying to emulate the real thing is never the real thing and sometimes the simulation will throw up changes to unbalance you so youre forced to adapt, on your feet. Also the idea is that in training you can die, come back later and revise and redo.

Now I know its only telly, I know its only US smutz but even these well trained combatants found themselves "dead" , not once but twice. Had it been truly real  ( sic ) as it became later ( sorta ) they would have been of no use to anyone.

This got me to thinking about the predicament ol' Oscar finds himself in, as I see it.  Whilst you're always learning when playing footy  it's anticipated that you will have arrived at a point where the 'training' is over and you are ready. Still learning but past the 'training stage"  I dont think Oscar is. He's been thrust into the real world ( aka the deep end ) and really he's fending for himself with very few there to guide him and mentor on the field . I dont see how this does him nor the team much good.

My issue is not so much with McDonald jnr  as he'll only output what he can but with the wisdom of putting him into the line of fire under equipped.

How can he trust his training is it's underdone. How can he accomplish his role if he's surrounded by some similarly  raw.

I think the club has improved dramatically over the last few years in it's development of players. The mantra was. no one comes in before time and we will give them that time.

Seems to me the club's gone backwards all of a sudden. Again the bunny in question is Oscar and I think hes done probably well all things considered but in the context of the games and his contribution its found wanting because to this writer he's there too soon and too long

If youre to trust your training you must at first finish it. The training for AFL is not the 1sts

I dont blame Oscar, I think the FD are stuffing up.

 

[monoccular 16,247]

On 5 June 2016 at 11:39 AM, DV8 said:

I think Oscar has the ability to be a great player.  A better kick than Tom IMO, & seems to have better touch.

He needs to string a number of games together to get into a groove & show where he is at.

Quite possibly.

And quite possibly he will spend more weeks at Casey to 'recover' and work on a few aspects of his game.

Another preseason in the gym will hopefully see him build towards an AFL ready body.   Only then will we really know. 

[DemonWA 3,468]

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2016-06-08/player-update-oscar-mcdonald

[Moonshadow 16,317]

3 hours ago, DemonWA said:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2016-06-08/player-update-oscar-mcdonald

Very nervous interviewer. Jeez they are soooooo young. Liked how he talked about the unity within the backline and that there is considerable backline experience at the club even though he, Wags and Hunt are all inexperienced. I think he'll continue to improve and be a long termer.

[beelzebub 22,244]

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Very nervous interviewer. Jeez they are soooooo young. Liked how he talked about the unity within the backline and that there is considerable backline experience at the club even though he, Wags and Hunt are all inexperienced. I think he'll continue to improve and be a long termer.

lol

[ManDee 7,091]

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Very nervous interviewer. Jeez they are soooooo young. Liked how he talked about the unity within the backline and that there is considerable backline experience at the club even though he, Wags and Hunt are all inexperienced. I think he'll continue to improve and be a long termer.

Perhaps in the coaching group.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Just now, ManDee said:

Perhaps in the coaching group.

I realise.. but theres sfa on the ground...  and thats who he relies upon when there.

What do they say about theory and practice.

If the club thinks that this is the way...I worry.  You allow saplings to grow by bracing them and protecting them....not letting them be open to all the forces that can come to bear.

We need an experienced PLAYER out there holding down FB

[Moonshadow 16,317]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

lol

Think he was referring to Lumumba, Dunn, Garland, Grimes, etc

[beelzebub 22,244]

3 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Think he was referring to Lumumba, Dunn, Garland, Grimes, etc

3 aren't on the paddock and not sure the 4th really is !! 

[daisycutter 28,630]

On 07/06/2016 at 3:00 PM, stuie said:

Respectfully disagree. Any analysis that puts Oscar and Gawn in their "team of the week" but doesn't have Vince or Tyson after Saturday has no credibility.

This is my whole point, he played "just a game" on Saturday, yet some posters are hanging their hats on this farcical "team of the week" and also claiming it was his "career best game", and that is as much an overreaction as those wanting him dropped and not brought back.

 

tyson was there on the wing. i think you got blinded when you saw oscar's name

[H_T 2,941]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Think he was referring to Lumumba, Dunn, Garland, Grimes, etc

Jetta, McDonald, Bugg

Good to see the young fella and his excitement for Monday.

Takes me back to the days in Rivers first few games for the club back in 2003 under Daniher.

Wish this kid all the best.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,586]

17 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Very nervous interviewer. Jeez they are soooooo young. Liked how he talked about the unity within the backline and that there is considerable backline experience at the club even though he, Wags and Hunt are all inexperienced. I think he'll continue to improve and be a long termer.

Nervous yes, but seemed to have a pretty screwed on, down to earth and in for hard work kind of attitude about him, that kind of attitude could take him far.  I know that most AFL recruits these days seem to talk the coaching propaganda babble, but I thought he came across as pretty genuine.  Watching him play, I think he certainly puts in effort.

Melbourne has recruited and reaped the just reward for it's fair share of talented show ponies in the recent past, so to me, there is something encouraging about where this guy is coming from.  Will be interesting to see how he goes in a few years time if he can develop Tommy's kind of strength and endurance.

[dino rover 625]

Is it to keep t mac that wr play o mac?