Who will be our third tall forward?

[binman 38,582]

19 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

I reckon we won't recognise our forward line by round 11 next year. Tim Smith, Hannan and Johnstone look very able options to make our forward line very difficult for oppopsition teams to cover.

Hogan, Watts and Weideman and the three certainties, but Weideman might not get a go until a few rounds in. Considering previous training reports have had him practicing repeat leading and the when/where stuff, surely they are grooming him to be a regular. It looks like Goodwin wants to play really quick moving footy so Weideman's lighter frame might be a good fit, when he develops a tank. 

After those three the variations are endless: Kent, Garlett, Vandenberg, Tim Smith, Hulett, Joel Smith, JKH, Trengove, Pederson, Hannan, Harmes, Johnstone etc... 

Good post. We definetley have the makings of a super strong forward line and i think we can look forward to watching a high scoring team for the next few years. Will be some good value in the first few rounds next season for the highest score of the round .

The casey demons will also have a pretty good forward line  as they wont be able to squueze them all in. 

By the by you left out one of our most damaging forwards in the trac. I suspect that whilst he will inevitably spend more time in the midfield he will always play a a lot as a very dangerous high half forward.

[tiers 2,783]

I have a strong memory that it was Hogan who spent much of his time under the ball in a pack near the goal square, not Watts. Yes, Hogan played up field a bit but when there is a long kick into the forward line from the centre square it is Hogan we expect to see, not Watts. We are hoping he is the one kicking.

As for the number of goals kicked being a determinant, I wonder if Eddie Betts considers himself a tall forward because of the number of goals he kicked?

Nick R might be a role model for Hogan with his gut running and strength in the air, but his role is not comparable to Watts who plays a totally different game. .

 

[binman 38,582]

Well tiers, to avoid tears, lets agree to disagree

[tiers 2,783]

Agree. We are, after all, both on the same side.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,886]

I think we have the capabiliy to stretch teams with size. Vandenberg is a midfielder but big enough to play as a key which is a huge asset. Playing him as a "4th" tall could cause all sorts of problems. He is mobile enough to play tall or small depending on the situation. Watts is quickish for his size and is capable of out running tall defenders or out marking small ones. With Kent and Garlett around we should have enough pace if they can be consistant with their pressure. T Smith is a natural footballer and I'd like to see him get a run at it early in the season but if he struggles to cement his spot then I think Pedo comes in. Kent, Tracc, Brayshaw, Salem and maybe Hannan can all rotate between mid and forward.

Maybe we could see a forward lineup something like this? Unfortunatly that means Watts continues as ruck relief but I like Watts' skill around the ground when he plays the ruck role anyway. Watts, Lewis and Salem with Jones, Viney and Tyson is a pretty good mix of skill and grunt in and around the contest, but I digress.

HF:  Kent, Hogan, Watts
F:    Garlett, TSmith, Vandenberg

Rotating with Kent: CP5, Brayshaw, Salem. Tyson? (Tyson's a bit of an after thought but he can kick a goal)

Edit:
Obviously this leaves out the Weid. While I like him and think he will be a star I still believe he should spend more time at Casey than in the seniors. He will get a go at some stage. Either form or injury above him will give him the chance but I wouldn't have him in the team come round 1. (A fantastic BLT or whatever its called series might change my mind)

Edited December 19, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[Gator 16,893]

I can't get vandenBerg into my best 22.  I don't see him being a quality third tall that regularly impacts the scoreboard.  He's a better, albeit limited, mid in my view, who can push forward for a mismatch.

Watts is the creative third tall, who also links play when up the ground.

I reckon they'll want to get games into Weideman at Pedersen's expense.

Hannan the wild card. 

[Redleg 37,769]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I can't get vandenBerg into my best 22.  I don't see him being a quality third tall that regularly impacts the scoreboard.  He's a better, albeit limited, mid in my view, who can push forward for a mismatch.

Watts is the creative third tall, who also links play when up the ground.

I reckon they'll want to get games into Weideman at Pedersen's expense.

Hannan the wild card. 

Tim Smith, with better delivery in the AFL and his strength at the contest, could be another wild card.

Agree on Hannan, he seems to have some real talent, but is not a key position player.

I just love that we are now talking about guys getting a game, who are clearly not seen as our best 22, yet could get there with hard work and some luck.

We have got to a stage, where the worst players on our list, could still fill in when necessary. Our real depth seems to now go into the 30's, whereas a few years ago it could have ended in single digits.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I can see Tim Smith playing a lot of senior football in 2017.

vandenBerg should be played in the midfield.

[TRIGON 4,719]

Vandenberg plays well as a bullocking midfielder, however (and fortunately) it's tough competition now for spots there. When resting forward he is a big target and can be that 3rd tall forward as and when necessary due to rotations. So a handy player; hopefully his preseason is without incident and we get to see if he can be even more than that.

[PaulRB 5,974]

I think players like Vandenberg, Petracca, Brayshaw and even Kent and Gartlett who can rotate through the midfield will get priority over additional "second tier" forwards who don't offer that.

I'm a big fan of Vandenberg's potential to continue to evolve into a Josh Kennedy (Swans) type. Given he's only played 28 games in his two season, having endured injuries in his second (missing rounds 4-10), he's another who should continue to get better.

Its interesting to compare Vandenberg (http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/A/Aaron_Vandenberg.html) to Josh Kennedy - http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Josh_Kennedy1.html

 

[chook fowler 18,325]

4 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

He definitely plays a lot of the game as a tall forward, rotating the lead up role with Hogan. However, he seems to have a license to move into defence whenever he feels there is a need. Obviously he plays the backup ruckman when required. I don't think it is a simple as saying he plays the second tall.

I seem to remember him, recurited as mature age, being listed as 188cm in his first season. I note you are correct Chook, he is listed on the site as 191 now. How did he grow 3cm in his mid 20's??

Dynamic lifter

[Stretch Johnson 2,585]

I don't see Weideman as being a regular fixture in 2017 and maybe not in 2018.  

Would not be surprised at all if Smith is able to step up and be a real handful. Strong bodied, good hands, mobile and can kick straight. Can see him sharing a role with Pedersen.

[binman 38,582]

Roos cleary prefered vb as a  forward. Strong body. Good mark and reliable shot for goal. Where he plays will depend on where goody sees him as a best fit

[Redleg 37,769]

2 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

I don't see Weideman as being a regular fixture in 2017 and maybe not in 2018.  

 

Gee I do, certainly in 2018.

[dazzledavey36 48,906]

Tim Smith will be the surprise packet next year.

Jack Watts Sam Weidemen and Jesse Hogan could learn a thing or 2 how to put forward pressure on when your a tall forward. His harrassment and forward pressure is seriously impressive. 

No wonder they call him bull.

[rjay 23,927]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Roos cleary prefered vb as a  forward. Strong body. Good mark and reliable shot for goal. Where he plays will depend on where goody sees him as a best fit

I really like what Vanders brings to the table but this is one thing he's not...he's probably on a par with Kent for set shots and I wouldn't stake my life on either.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Roos cleary prefered vb as a  forward. Strong body. Good mark and reliable shot for goal. Where he plays will depend on where goody sees him as a best fit

Not sure Bin.  I reckon he was used as a forward because he couldn't get fit enough for the midfield because of his ankle which severely restricted his year.  Clearly Roos liked him though.

Can the resident track watchers tell us which group he's been training with?

[dino rover 624]

4 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Dynamic lifter

I dont think he is 1.91 Either though thats what the mfc web site says

[DeeZee 6,776]

The bone of contention on that third tall is whether they can chop out in the ruck or not.

Thinking out side the square, why does the relief ruck man have to be a forward?

Why couldn't someone like Frost who plays third tall back , learn a bit of ruck craft?  Certainly has the body for it, especially if Wattsy can do it.

Once Frost goes into the ruck, Gawn can rest in the forward pocket and Watts can go down back for a spell.

That way the third tall can be played as a pure forward like a Weideman or a Hannan

Edited December 20, 2016 by DeeZee

[Chook 14,592]

20 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

The bone of contention on that third tall is whether they can chop out in the ruck or not.

Thinking out side the square, why does the relief ruck man have to be a forward?

Why couldn't someone like Frost who plays third tall back , learn a bit of ruck craft?  Certainly has the body for it, especially if Wattsy can do it.

Once Frost goes into the ruck, Gawn can rest in the forward pocket and Watts can go down back for a spell.

That way the third tall can be played as a pure forward like a Weideman or a Hannan

That's the role we had Stefan Martin playing to not very good effect (that is, before he left and subsequently grew an extra leg as 1st ruck).

[DeeZee 6,776]

Yes but Stefan was a Ruckman, a tall mobile back who only goes into the ruck to give Maxy a rest would  work better.

[dino rover 624]

I think we will play king flippa or Spencer as third tall

With hogan and watts roaming high half forward and no ideal "chop out" option this is our best play.

 

[Gator 16,893]

1 hour ago, dino rover said:

I think we will play king flippa or Spencer as third tall

With hogan and watts roaming high half forward and no ideal "chop out" option this is our best play.

 

No. 

They won't take marks 'inside 50' often enough to hit the scoreboard and are a complete liability when it comes to forward pressure and ground balls.

We averaged 3 marks 'inside 50' per quarter in 2016, which is evidence that the ball is on the deck in the forward-line far more often than it's controlled in the air.  The best 'player average' was West Coast's Josh Kennedy, who couldn't quite average one mark 'inside 50' per quarter per game.  If he can't average one mark 'inside 50' per quarter per game how many do you expect Spencer to take ?  And once the ball is on the deck he's virtually useless.

It will be rare if Melbourne plays two rucks in 2017.  So rare I doubt we'll see one.  It happened in 2015 down at the Cattery, but that experiment only happened twice more that season.

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by ProDee

[ManDee 7,091]

11 hours ago, DeeZee said:

The bone of contention on that third tall is whether they can chop out in the ruck or not.

Thinking out side the square, why does the relief ruck man have to be a forward?

Why couldn't someone like Frost who plays third tall back , learn a bit of ruck craft?  Certainly has the body for it, especially if Wattsy can do it.

Once Frost goes into the ruck, Gawn can rest in the forward pocket and Watts can go down back for a spell.

That way the third tall can be played as a pure forward like a Weideman or a Hannan

Around the ground the relief ruckman can be an extra midfielder like Bernie, remember we have Lewis as the third man up. Centre bounces Watts or Frost could work.

Personally I would go with Spencer, give a Gawn/Spencer combo the first 4/5 games together and stretch the opposition, If we start to dominate the clearances we make them play two dinosaurs as well. Gawn can take marks forward when resting and opposition sides would have to cover Spence. In the wet one ruckman and Pedo 

[rpfc 27,532]

How tall is Smith? Can he ruck?