Clayton Oliver caught drink driving

[hardtack 10,126]

13 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Ablett senior, Swan, Hodge, Heath Shaw, Steve Johnson and I'm sure many others we don't know about have hardly been angles but have become elite AFL players.

And while I support your "don't drink and drive" message I think you're making a bit of an issue out of a situation where we don't know many of the facts.

 

There's only one fact that matters, and that is that he chose to drive with alcohol in his system. If you are suggesting that maybe it was residual from an earlier drinking bout, then he must have been extremely pizzed which if anything makes matters worse.  I would disagree that I was making an issue out of it...rather, I was pointing to the fact that now he is playing at the top level, he needs to exercise more self control. You are right about those players, but that doesn't make it any less unacceptable.

[jnrmac 18,952]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

except the "another player" didn't smash "a car". it was his car but he was a passenger

at least that is my memory of the event

That's how it was reported. Not sure that is what really happened

[jnrmac 18,952]

23 minutes ago, hardtack said:

There's only one fact that matters, and that is that he chose to drive with alcohol in his system. If you are suggesting that maybe it was residual from an earlier drinking bout, then he must have been extremely pizzed which if anything makes matters worse.  I would disagree that I was making an issue out of it...rather, I was pointing to the fact that now he is playing at the top level, he needs to exercise more self control. You are right about those players, but that doesn't make it any less unacceptable.

You guys really need to lighten up. Its not a hanging offence FFS.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

24 minutes ago, hardtack said:

There's only one fact that matters, and that is that he chose to drive with alcohol in his system. If you are suggesting that maybe it was residual from an earlier drinking bout, then he must have been extremely pizzed which if anything makes matters worse.  I would disagree that I was making an issue out of it...rather, I was pointing to the fact that now he is playing at the top level, he needs to exercise more self control. You are right about those players, but that doesn't make it any less unacceptable.

I think your hanging a guy without hearing the evidence.  But my main point though was that many players have a drink and are elite.

Please don't interpret my comments as being in any way supportive of drink driving.  I'm critical of making judgements without the facts.

[McQueen 17,862]

For all we know he might've had a big night, slept a bit and was caught early the next day with a nominal reading, as opposed to drinking and subsequently driving.

The club will deal with it and I reckon Jones is well equipped in handing out a very decent spray.

 

[monoccular 16,043]

If he can learn from it well and good.

At least he didn't go and hide with some Grubby character from ASADA. 

[hemingway 7,589]

7 hours ago, McQueen said:

For all we know he might've had a big night, slept a bit and was caught early the next day with a nominal reading, as opposed to drinking and subsequently driving.

The club will deal with it and I reckon Jones is well equipped in handing out a very decent spray.

 

Hopefully it will be dealt with in a manner that does not involve a spray.  Kids today don't listen and do not respond to a spray. Belongs to another era. 

[McQueen 17,862]

6 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Hopefully it will be dealt with in a manner that does not involve a spray.  Kids today don't listen and do not respond to a spray. Belongs to another era. 

Not one of your better posts, Ernie.

In fact, its rubbish.

 

[hemingway 7,589]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

Not one of your better posts, Ernie.

In fact, its rubbish.

 

nice spray Steve and quick to make your point 

[Melb-A-Toast 257]

There seems to be for some posters an OCD for OCDD. Let the club leadership sort it out and we should move on.

[ManDee 7,077]

19 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Ablett senior, Swan, Hodge, Heath Shaw, Steve Johnson and I'm sure many others we don't know about have hardly been angles but have become elite AFL players.

And while I support your "don't drink and drive" message I think you're making a bit of an issue out of a situation where we don't know many of the facts.

 

Acute or obtuse?

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

19 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I think your hanging a guy without hearing the evidence.  But my main point though was that many players have a drink and are elite.

Please don't interpret my comments as being in any way supportive of drink driving.  I'm critical of making judgements without the facts.

I don't think anyone is hanging anyone, for someone who purports to like the facts you are big on hyperbole.

The one fact that counts is that he was driving with a BAC level above zero, which for him is an offence.

Police have given him a penalty for it, and he has admitted it.  That is your evidence.

[binman 37,988]

1 hour ago, Stretch Johnson said:

I don't think anyone is hanging anyone, for someone who purports to like the facts you are big on hyperbole.

The one fact that counts is that he was driving with a BAC level above zero, which for him is an offence.

Police have given him a penalty for it, and he has admitted it.  That is your evidence.

And for those who say it is not a hanging offence i beg to difer (well obviously it's not literally a hanging offence - we don't have  capital punishment thankfully) it should not be forgotten that if Oliver had had an accident whilst over the limit and someone had been badly injured or god forbid died he would face very, very serious charges (eg culpable deriving, manslaughter) - even if the accident was not his fault.

[ManDee 7,077]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

And for those who say it is not a hanging offence i beg to difer (well obviously it's not literally a hanging offence - we don't have  capital punishment thankfully) it should not be forgotten that if Oliver had had an accident whilst over the limit and someone had been badly injured or god forbid died he would face very, very serious charges (eg culpable deriving, manslaughter) - even if the accident was not his fault.

If, if, if you had been caught doing those illegal things that you have done you would have been in more trouble. If you had been born in Syria, if you were an astronaut, if you were a shark etc, etc. Hypothetical situations that did not happen.  Minor indiscretion, apologise get on with life.

[binman 37,988]

45 minutes ago, ManDee said:

If, if, if you had been caught doing those illegal things that you have done you would have been in more trouble. If you had been born in Syria, if you were an astronaut, if you were a shark etc, etc. Hypothetical situations that did not happen.  Minor indiscretion, apologise get on with life.

Disagree completely. On two counts. Being born in Syria etc etc is out of your control, choosing to drive under the influence of alcohol is not.

The whole point of the zero limit for P platers is that sometimes split second decision/reactions have to made that are often the difference between having an accident and avoiding one. All of us who drive know that. For inexperienced drivers any impairment at all has a disproportionate impact and greatly increases the likelihood of an accident. Consider this - P platers are 30 times more likely than non P platers to have a crash. 30 times.

And that is only the half of it, for example alcohol is involved in 21 percent of driver deaths for 18-20 year olds and young drivers have a 3-5 times increased fatality risk at all blood alcohol content (BAC) levels compared to fully licensed drivers.

This is not a minor indiscretion. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by binman

[ManDee 7,077]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Disagree completely. On two counts. Being born in Syria etc etc is out of your control, choosing to drive under the influence of alcohol is not.

The whole point of the zero limit for P platers is that sometimes split second decision/reactions have to made that are often the difference between having an accident and avoid one. All of us who drive know that. For experienced drivers any impairment at all has disproportionate impact and greatly increases the likelihood of an accident. Consider this - P platers are 30 times more likely than non P platers. 30 times.

And that is only the half of it, for example alcohol is involved in 21 percent of driver deaths for 18-20 year olds and young drivers have a 3-5 times increased fatality risk at all blood alcohol content (BAC) levels compared to fully licensed drivers.

This is not a minor indiscretion. 

I have no problem with the points you raise here.

If he had an accident - He did not. If someone was injured or killed - Did not happen. 

It is a minor indiscretion, a stupid act if you like, but the overreaction here is exactly that an over reaction. No property was damaged no one was hurt, he did a stupid thing, we will know more with how he reacts, hopefully he will smarten up.

BAC Level	Effects from Alcohol
0.02 - 0.03 BAC	No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded.

 

[binman 37,988]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

I

BAC Level	Effects from Alcohol
0.02 - 0.03 BAC	No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded.

 

Alcohol is involved in 21 percent of driver deaths for 18-20 year olds and young drivers have a 3-5 times increased fatality risk at all blood alcohol content (BAC) levels compared to fully licensed drivers.

Lets agree to disagree. 

[ManDee 7,077]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

Alcohol is involved in 21 percent of driver deaths for 18-20 year olds and young drivers have a 3-5 times increased fatality risk at all blood alcohol content (BAC) levels compared to fully licensed drivers.

Lets agree to disagree. 

Yes drink driving is bad, your statistics and extrapolations are irrelevant to Oliver's situation. Oliver did not have an accident and no one was hurt. 

Let's agree to disagree. 

[jackaub 1,402]

54 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I have no problem with the points you raise here.

If he had an accident - He did not. If someone was injured or killed - Did not happen. 

It is a minor indiscretion, a stupid act if you like, but the overreaction here is exactly that an over reaction. No property was damaged no one was hurt, he did a stupid thing, we will know more with how he reacts, hopefully he will smarten up.

BAC Level	Effects from Alcohol
0.02 - 0.03 BAC	No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded.

 

HMMMMM sounds ok to me especially the Slight Euphoria.Maybe is the same when I read something good on Demonland

[daisycutter 28,487]

 

2 hours ago, binman said:

And for those who say it is not a hanging offence i beg to difer (well obviously it's not literally a hanging offence - we don't have  capital punishment thankfully) it should not be forgotten that if Oliver had had an accident whilst over the limit and someone had been badly injured or god forbid died he would face very, very serious charges (eg culpable deriving, manslaughter) - even if the accident was not his fault.

[beelzebub 22,225]

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

 

it's good we got it in writing there eh  

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

I have no problem with the points you raise here.

If he had an accident - He did not. If someone was injured or killed - Did not happen. 

It is a minor indiscretion, a stupid act if you like, but the overreaction here is exactly that an over reaction. No property was damaged no one was hurt, he did a stupid thing, we will know more with how he reacts, hopefully he will smarten up.

BAC Level	Effects from Alcohol
0.02 - 0.03 BAC	No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded.

 

Euphoria and Loss of Shyness can in this context translate into over confidence and reduced caution.. Mildly relaxed?? So not fully alert !! Lightheaded ?? >>>  wandering concentration !!

ooh yeah baby..thats the ideal for a young inexperienced driver ...for sure. Any wonder they are the highest represented in accident statistics !! 

[dino rover 618]

Time to move on here

[old55 21,285]

On 11/20/2016 at 0:58 PM, Vogon Poetry said:

I think your hanging a guy without hearing the evidence.  But my main point though was that many players have a drink and are elite.

Please don't interpret my comments as being in any way supportive of drink driving.  I'm critical of making judgements without the facts.

Yeah but there's other "smoke" circulating about Oliver's behaviours and this is "fire" evidence.  

Players with "elite preparation" behaviours can often be a bit vanilla on field.  We can benefit from Oliver's dynamic personality attributes but he has to channel them for that benefit to be realised.

[ManDee 7,077]