The Jesse Hogan Panic Room - all contract talk here

[Willmoy1947 3,918]

2 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

Are you a medical professional Willmoy ??? 

Ps How are the pineapples coming on this year ????

Lovely smelling pineapples this year and big rings and no, but i know the benefits of hugging trees when you remove their vines.

[Satyriconhome 10,157]

12 minutes ago, Key Deefender said:

I think there are a few psychologists that do follow this club.

Believe the paper they have been preparing for last 8 years is ready to be published.....peer reviewed by SWYL, Stuie, Picket, BBO and myself, that should have it covered

[hemingway 7,608]

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Believe the paper they have been preparing for last 8 years is ready to be published.....peer reviewed by SWYL, Stuie, Picket, BBO and myself, that should have it covered

I doubt it. 

[deespicable me 1,445]

I think the club should help Hoges by making the decision for him, we are going to trade you.

I really dislike players that put themselves above the team when the essence of the game is that it is a team game.

He's not the first and there is a long list of difficult full forwards that have graced the turf before him and the indications are that he is another. Buddy, Fevola, Ablett snr, Jack Reiwoldt, Jacko, Farmer, Allen Jakovitch, Carey, maybe even Stringer. This is not a Melbourne footy club problem but the personality of someone who has to see themselves as better than others to perform. They are confidence players who's egos need constant stroking and off the field they can be quite damaged, fragile individuals. If you can control them they can win you a premiership but keeping them focussed and on track and constantly telling them "you da man" is hard work. Many of them have ended coaches careers.

Its interesting how Tex Walker responded to being made Captain after getting off-side, ending Sandersons coaching career nearly leaving and is now an inspired choice. He was certainly told he was the man.

Are Melbourne a good enough strong enough club to go on this journey. I'm a bit negative here and say no we are not. We should probably trade him. It's going to end in heart ache. Cut our losses, get as much as we can, help him out by sending him home and try once again to move on. 

[Akum 2,660]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

Ok.  A clearer picture is emerging and for me it's relatively straight forward.

Hogan does "float" according to his manager when it comes to where he wants to play his footy.  My take is that he loves his mates, is happy with the club's progress and gets on very well with Goodwin, but unsurprisingly for a 21 year old who hasn't lived at home since he was 17, he gets occasional pangs of homesickness that prevents him from making a concrete decision.   And he doesn't need to, as he's contracted for 2017.

So while we all want a decision and so does the club Hogan can buy more time to be sure of his decision. 

I'm going to take things on face value.  I'm now comfortable in the belief that he'll be playing at Melbourne in 2017 and imo that augurs well for the future.  The more he bonds with his teammates (and the club) the better.  I appreciate others will think he'll leave at the end of 2017, and he may, but I still believe we'll be best placed to retain him. 

While it's also crossed my mind that it may be better to do a deal this year, if he's genuinely conflicted, which I have no reason to doubt, then we should back the club to convince him to stay.  I don't see the current events as some inevitability that he'll go.   He's got stuff to work through. 

I'm going to enjoy seeing Hogan for another year and will remain confident that he'll ultimately decide to stay.  If he is presently "torn" it may be that the extra time works in our favour.

 

A lighthouse of common sense among the sea of drivel this thread has become.

Thread has lived up to all its original potential, and then some.

[hemingway 7,608]

The Hogan thing sums up the disconnect between supporter and those who ply their trade in the Industry. We supporters are loyal, sentimental, nostalgic and for entire lifetimes committed to our club. It is our heritage, it is part of our blood line and DNA. Yet we folliw a game that is professionalized, corporatised and bastardised. We invest our emotional energy and passion into this crazy unreality. Do I want Hogan to stay a Demon? Absolutely. Do I accept that he may go?  Yes. He is a player who was drafted from far away WA. It's a long way away. It's not Melbourne. It's unique like all other parts of the country, with its own culture, lifestyle, behaviour and way of thinking. Melbourne is not Perth. We are a product of our upbringing, our connections, our family.  Jesse will always be a Western Australian as that is where he belongs. Any Melbournians who have lived interstate or overseas remain at heart Melbournians as that is where the heart lies.  There will be many who will get upset if Jesse flies away home. Yet who could blame him. If this occurs this meat market of professional sport will see another player or group of players ripped away from their home turf to ply their trade in far away Melbourne. God help them.  Poor buggers having to put up with the traffic, the aggression, the road rage and lack of courtesy. What a dog eat dog world Melbourne has become.                                     When I look at the way the game continues to change I see Hogan as a CHF of the past in the image of Brown and Carey.  He is a key position player in a game that no longer has key position players. So it will not be the end of the world if he goes, which he will sooner or later..  Yet emotionally I want him to remain a Demon, how crazy! 

[The Backyard Charizard 1,178]

17 hours ago, S.R.J said:

After reading these 104 pages of speculation I'm no clearer if he is staying or going. To be honest i dont really care. Players come and go. Dont get me wrong, we need alot of compensation if indeed he does jump ship for whatever reason. I have faith in our list management dept.

THIS....

[Demon17 4,826]

9 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The Hogan thing sums up the disconnect between supporter and those who ply their trade in the Industry. We supporters are loyal, sentimental, nostalgic and for entire lifetimes committed to our club. It is our heritage, it is part of our blood line and DNA. Yet we folliw a game that is professionalized, corporatised and bastardised. We invest our emotional energy and passion into this crazy unreality. Do I want Hogan to stay a Demon? Absolutely. Do I accept that he may go?  Yes. He is a player who was drafted from far away WA. It's a long way away. It's not Melbourne. It's unique like all other parts of the country, with its own culture, lifestyle, behaviour and way of thinking. Melbourne is not Perth. We are a product of our upbringing, our connections, our family.  Jesse will always be a Western Australian as that is where he belongs. Any Melbournians who have lived interstate or overseas remain at heart Melbournians as that is where the heart lies.  There will be many who will get upset if Jesse flies away home. Yet who could blame him. If this occurs this meat market of professional sport will see another player or group of players ripped away from their home turf to ply their trade in far away Melbourne. God help them.  Poor buggers having to put up with the traffic, the aggression, the road rage and lack of courtesy. What a dog eat dog world Melbourne has become.                                     When I look at the way the game continues to change I see Hogan as a CHF of the past in the image of Brown and Carey.  He is a key position player in a game that no longer has key position players. So it will not be the end of the world if he goes, which he will sooner or later..  Yet emotionally I want him to remain a Demon, how crazy! 

This is a  great analysis and in line with some very insightful thoughts by Dermot Brereton recently who talked about how hawthorn now play not needing a large forward. He believes those days are not necessarily over but teams , including hawks, have leaned how to score without now the traditional KP forward. I have always been concerned at Hogan's lack of kicking depth and think his value to the team isn't the be all and end all now that other talent is on the horizon, and as David King said this year , Melbourne now have a premiership standard midfield.

[DubDee 22,854]

16 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The Hogan thing sums up the disconnect between supporter and those who ply their trade in the Industry. We supporters are loyal, sentimental, nostalgic and for entire lifetimes committed to our club. It is our heritage, it is part of our blood line and DNA. Yet we folliw a game that is professionalized, corporatised and bastardised. We invest our emotional energy and passion into this crazy unreality. Do I want Hogan to stay a Demon? Absolutely. Do I accept that he may go?  Yes. He is a player who was drafted from far away WA. It's a long way away. It's not Melbourne. It's unique like all other parts of the country, with its own culture, lifestyle, behaviour and way of thinking. Melbourne is not Perth. We are a product of our upbringing, our connections, our family.  Jesse will always be a Western Australian as that is where he belongs. Any Melbournians who have lived interstate or overseas remain at heart Melbournians as that is where the heart lies.  There will be many who will get upset if Jesse flies away home. Yet who could blame him. If this occurs this meat market of professional sport will see another player or group of players ripped away from their home turf to ply their trade in far away Melbourne. God help them.  Poor buggers having to put up with the traffic, the aggression, the road rage and lack of courtesy. What a dog eat dog world Melbourne has become.                                     When I look at the way the game continues to change I see Hogan as a CHF of the past in the image of Brown and Carey.  He is a key position player in a game that no longer has key position players. So it will not be the end of the world if he goes, which he will sooner or later..  Yet emotionally I want him to remain a Demon, how crazy! 

Great analysis. Although the game changes so quickly so who is to say a gun CHF won't be key in 5 years?

also, would a top team like Hawks or cats even be considering he would go home? I am shitty not that he would go home but that we are not a good enough club to keep him. Do Hawks players not get homesick?

how do we become a better club when our potentially best player leaves?

#ivebeendrinking

[The Sailing Demon 379]

I have started to come to terms with whatever Hogan may do, as my name suggests, I am in the Navy, living in Sydney, but from Melbourne.
I grew up in Melbourne, left for the Navy in 2008 at the age of 17 and am now 25, I have been away from Melbourne now for 8 years but you know what?

I am taking a $26,000 p.a pay cut in 15 months to come back home to Melbourne because you can take the boy from home but you can't take home from the boy.
I have friends, memories, girlfriend, a dog here in Sydney but always looked at my time in Sydney as a temporary thing (albeit a 9 year temporary thing come next year.)

So life story aside, I completely agree as to why the bloke will be torn between home and career but the majority of the time home wins, especially when Hoges is so close to his family family and is staring down the barrell of a $1.5M+ deal.

I think he will stay but either way, I won't crucify the kid if he decides to go back home.

Edited September 20, 2016 by The Sailing Demon

[John Crow Batty 8,390]

8 hours ago, deespicable me said:

I think the club should help Hoges by making the decision for him, we are going to trade you.

I really dislike players that put themselves above the team when the essence of the game is that it is a team game.

He's not the first and there is a long list of difficult full forwards that have graced the turf before him and the indications are that he is another. Buddy, Fevola, Ablett snr, Jack Reiwoldt, Jacko, Farmer, Allen Jakovitch, Carey, maybe even Stringer. This is not a Melbourne footy club problem but the personality of someone who has to see themselves as better than others to perform. They are confidence players who's egos need constant stroking and off the field they can be quite damaged, fragile individuals. If you can control them they can win you a premiership but keeping them focussed and on track and constantly telling them "you da man" is hard work. Many of them have ended coaches careers.

Its interesting how Tex Walker responded to being made Captain after getting off-side, ending Sandersons coaching career nearly leaving and is now an inspired choice. He was certainly told he was the man.

Are Melbourne a good enough strong enough club to go on this journey. I'm a bit negative here and say no we are not. We should probably trade him. It's going to end in heart ache. Cut our losses, get as much as we can, help him out by sending him home and try once again to move on. 

Much in my line of thinking. Carey chanelled his alpha male arrogance into his game, not for petty sulks and made his  teamates walk taller. His  problems were personal and off field. Buddy had a strong club to keep him line and proved to be not such an essential player in their machine.

The other names you mention along with the Lockett's and Richo's have not one flag between them. Hogan can take his distractions elsewhere. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by america de cali

[Dante 2,583]

Just heard Jon Anderson on 3AW say that he has been told by someone that knows Jesse well, that at the moment, he will play for us next year and then wants to go home.

He also said that this may change next year but that's how it stands right now.

[Gator 16,921]

14 minutes ago, The Sailing Demon said:

So life story aside, I completely agree as to why the bloke will be torn between home and career but the majority of the time home wins, especially when Hoges is so close to his family family and is staring down the barrell of a $1.5M+ deal.

I think he will stay but either way, I won't crucify the kid if he decides to go back home.

Evidence throughout AFL history (1987) suggests your assertion is incorrect.

Overwhelmingly (percentage wise) players do not seek a return home.  It's especially rare for great players to seek a return home.  Judd and Dangerfield are the exceptions, not the rule.

[rjay 24,297]

7 hours ago, hemingway said:

The Hogan thing sums up the disconnect between supporter and those who ply their trade in the Industry. We supporters are loyal, sentimental, nostalgic and for entire lifetimes committed to our club. It is our heritage, it is part of our blood line and DNA. Yet we folliw a game that is professionalized, corporatised and bastardised. We invest our emotional energy and passion into this crazy unreality. Do I want Hogan to stay a Demon? Absolutely. Do I accept that he may go?  Yes. He is a player who was drafted from far away WA. It's a long way away. It's not Melbourne. It's unique like all other parts of the country, with its own culture, lifestyle, behaviour and way of thinking. Melbourne is not Perth. We are a product of our upbringing, our connections, our family.  Jesse will always be a Western Australian as that is where he belongs. Any Melbournians who have lived interstate or overseas remain at heart Melbournians as that is where the heart lies.  There will be many who will get upset if Jesse flies away home. Yet who could blame him. If this occurs this meat market of professional sport will see another player or group of players ripped away from their home turf to ply their trade in far away Melbourne. God help them.  Poor buggers having to put up with the traffic, the aggression, the road rage and lack of courtesy. What a dog eat dog world Melbourne has become.                                     When I look at the way the game continues to change I see Hogan as a CHF of the past in the image of Brown and Carey.  He is a key position player in a game that no longer has key position players. So it will not be the end of the world if he goes, which he will sooner or later..  Yet emotionally I want him to remain a Demon, how crazy! 

 

7 hours ago, Demon17 said:

This is a  great analysis and in line with some very insightful thoughts by Dermot Brereton recently who talked about how hawthorn now play not needing a large forward. He believes those days are not necessarily over but teams , including hawks, have leaned how to score without now the traditional KP forward. I have always been concerned at Hogan's lack of kicking depth and think his value to the team isn't the be all and end all now that other talent is on the horizon, and as David King said this year , Melbourne now have a premiership standard midfield.

This is not right, as much as Dermott may waffle on about Hawthorn they didn't make a prelim this year.

Do you think they would have dropped Roughy because he didn't fit the current game plan.

No, they made the best of what they had and are now looking to recruit a very average Vickery to cover a weakness.

How much do you think Cameron or Lynch would be worth on the open market?

[Satyriconhome 10,157]

8 hours ago, Akum said:

among the sea of drivel this thread has become

You added to it, everybody is entitled to an opinion old chap, most want to see Hogan stay, the majority will move on if he moves back to WA, including me

 

[Satyriconhome 10,157]

8 hours ago, hemingway said:

I doubt it. 

We could investigate your ingrained pessimism at the same time if you want?

[Little Richard 5,998]

46 minutes ago, Dante said:

Just heard Jon Anderson on 3AW say that he has been told by someone that knows Jesse well, that at the moment, he will play for us next year and then wants to go home.

He also said that this may change next year but that's how it stands right now.

Anderson really can't lose by saying that. More rubbish.

[Gator 16,921]

21 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

This is not right, as much as Dermott may waffle on about Hawthorn they didn't make a prelim this year.

Do you think they would have dropped Roughy because he didn't fit the current game plan.

No, they made the best of what they had and are now looking to recruit a very average Vickery to cover a weakness.

How much do you think Cameron or Lynch would be worth on the open market?

I didn't read the wall of text you quoted, but I think Brereton may have been misquoted or understood.

I heard him a bit over the weekend and he asserted that some teams need a key forward because of their structure and the way they play, while others, and he cited Melbourne at one point due to Hogan being the topic of discussion, don't overly rely on a key forward.  He thought the way Melbourne played this year made Hogan expendable for the right trade.  On the flip-side a team like West Coast rely heavily on Kennedy.

He also said that Roughead was not a traditional key forward in that he rarely takes contested marks unless it's one on one.

Imo, Hawthorn were cooked due to their appalling contested ball numbers, ageing stars, lack of at least one true key forward, and ordinary bottom 6 in their best 22.  

Footy is so fluid throughout a season let alone what happens over a 3 year period that to make concrete conclusions on player types like Hogan or Brown is silly.  A player like Hogan, who has great endurance, aggression and contested marking ability will always be a commodity in high demand.  I also think his ground level play and smarts is underestimated.

[Flamingdees 227]

The good money seems to be on Jesse playing for us next year.  Starting the season without a contract for 2018 and beyond.

Like everyone here I'm sick of this crap.  We had 12 months of uncertainty in 2011 with Tom Scully, in 2014 it was James Frawley and in 2017 at this point it will be Jesse Hogan.

Is it just me or is it only the MFC who goes through this every three years it seems.... Who will it be in 2020???

I know other clubs lose players.  Do they lose 21 year olds like us?  

Was looking forward to a year that was focussed on the rise of the MFC next year and not a bloody Jesse Hogan media circus every week.

 

 

 

[Redleg 38,956]

1 hour ago, Dante said:

Just heard Jon Anderson on 3AW say that he has been told by someone that knows Jesse well, that at the moment, he will play for us next year and then wants to go home.

He also said that this may change next year but that's how it stands right now.

That is just so illogical.

"I want to go home. My club could get a better deal now, if they trade me and I get home straight away, but no, I will get them a worse deal in a year, to repay them for all they have spent and done for me. No, I will play for less money on my old contract. I will stay in Melbourne this year and play a last year, when I know I am leaving and not committed to the future of the club. I will cop the media on my back each week and every performance will be over analyzed. I will not look my team mates and coaches in the eyes, as I know I am leaving. Yes that is what I will do."

This missing family and friends argument really needs examination. I understand the current situation and would imagine that if family is the real reason, you would want to go home immediately.Why stay another year?

 These guys sign AFL Draft rules where they agree to play anywhere in Australia and then seek to break them. He is in Australia not overseas. He can talk to family every day by a multitude of electronic means. He can fly home a few times a year to see them. He is in a job paying great money and it is only for the next 10 years at a maximum. It will be easier on his back and long term health to fly less. It makes no sense to me. He needs to get back with his Melbourne girlfriend or find another.

The club is doing the right thing in not pressuring him and letting him be with family during their crisis. He must appreciate that.

I still think all of this hype, is Management driven, to secure a better deal from us.

FWIW, I think he will stay beyond 2017.

PS. The one fear I have, is that WC or Freo may have said we can't get you this year because of salary cap, or lack of trade currency, but we will get you next year, on a massive salary that they know we wouldn't match. That could explain staying this year, but again he could accept a smaller salary this year, so that sort of goes against my fear. Oh well who knows the truth, maybe not even Jesse at this point.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,390]

19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is just so illogical.

"I want to go home. My club could get a better deal now, if they trade me and I get home straight away, but no, I will get them a worse deal in a year, to repay them for all they have spent and done for me. No, I will play for less money on my old contract. I will stay in Melbourne this year and play a last year, when I know I am leaving and not committed to the future of the club. I will cop the media on my back each week and every performance will be over analyzed. I will not look my team mates and coaches in the eyes, as I know I am leaving. Yes that is what I will do."

This missing family and friends argument really needs examination. I understand the current situation and would imagine that if family is the real reason, you would want to go home immediately.Why stay another year?

 These guys sign AFL Draft rules where they agree to play anywhere in Australia and then seek to break them. He is in Australia not overseas. He can talk to family every day by a multitude of electronic means. He can fly home a few times a year to see them. He is in a job paying great money and it is only for the next 10 years at a maximum. It will be easier on his back and long term health to fly less. It makes no sense to me. He needs to get back with his Melbourne girlfriend or find another.

The club is doing the right thing in not pressuring him and letting him be with family during their crisis. He must appreciate that.

I still think all of this hype, is Management driven, to secure a better deal from us.

FWIW, I think he will stay beyond 2017.

PS. The one fear I have, is that WC or Freo may have said we can't get you this year because of salary cap, or lack of trade currency, but we will get you next year, on a massive salary that they know we wouldn't match. That could explain staying this year, but again he could accept a smaller salary this year, so that sort of goes against my fear. Oh well who knows the truth, maybe not even Jesse at this point.

 

I believe it is all about trade currency.  They don't won't to give up made players or real talent.  Freo needs to keep theirs  to improve and WC to make the next step. Time is on their side. Money is not the issue.

[Lucifers Hero 37,890]

46 minutes ago, Redleg said:

This missing family and friends argument really needs examination. I understand the current situation and would imagine that if family is the real reason, you would want to go home immediately.Why stay another year?

It would be natural for him to worry about them and how they will cope if the worst happens and that is where is personal loyalties lie. 

He has gone home 'immediately' and will spend the next few months there and time over Christmas.  Depending on what happens in Perth he may or may not do the pre Christmas preseason.  So that gives him several months at least in Perth. 

He does seem a decent young man so if the club supports him thru this surely that would make him think hard about leaving a team that is on the up.  Also, by playing next year it gives him the time to see how his family settles and make a more objective decision.

 

Btw Greg Denham said on SEN this morning that he spoke with Glen Bartlett last week who believes Jesse will re-sign with us.  Coach said the same thing.  His manager is hedging his bets.  Bartlett said Jesse's relationship with Goodwin will pull it Melbourne's way.  I remain very optimistic he will stay.  

Edited September 20, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Cheap Seats 3,308]

Let's be clear here. The only way Jesse will be traded is if he comes out and says i want to go back to WA.

The only scenario i can think of that Jesse requests to go home and we dont get fair value (at least 2 high first rounders) is if freo or wce finnish last in 2017 and he threatens to walk. 

All else is white noise 

[Flamingdees 227]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I believe it is all about trade currency.  They don't won't to give up made players or real talent.  Freo needs to keep theirs  to improve and WC to make the next step. Time is on their side. Money is not the issue.

Looks like Freo will get second round compensation for Mayne. 

Don't think it would be too difficult to trade this pick up three or four spots so they are in the first round. 

This would see them in a position to trade 2016 and 2017 first rounders.  

All clubs want to give up nothing to get something in trades. 

Everyones a winner in trade week.......

 

[picket fence 16,023]

2 hours ago, Dante said:

Just heard Jon Anderson on 3AW say that he has been told by someone that knows Jesse well, that at the moment, he will play for us next year and then wants to go home.

He also said that this may change next year but that's how it stands right now.

Meh, Yep and you watch this unfold and kick us right in the Gonads yet again, This will he won't he will lead to some degree of distabilization next year mark my words.

As I have iterated, we cannot let this drag on and on, Ok say to him mate do you want in for a long term attractive contract here, or are the pangs of the hometown so strong that is where you sit. But for us to move forward you need to make your mind up NOW!

Take our best offer or Good luck in W.A we wil take the best offer and use it to MFC Advantage. 

No more kicks in Gonads, where we lose out to swarthy movers and shakers in other clubs!

Edited September 20, 2016 by picket fence