Diamond Joe

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Joe Gutnick loses legal battle

[Akum 2,660]

Up to his eyebrows in fertilizer.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

1 hour ago, Akum said:

Up to his eyebrows in fertilizer.

Bit of loose change for Joe

[Slartibartfast 17,309]

Joe was never one to back away from a battle and it looks like he's going as far as he can with this one.

A fascinating character in Melbourne's history.  He took the opportunity to lead the fight against the merger in 1996 when approached by Brian Dixon.  Whilst the official result voted in favour of the merger many argue there were such anomalies in the count we (Joe) would have challenged it in court had the Hawks not rejected the proposal and saved our bacon.

I remember after the vote feeling that Joe had the opportunity to galvanize our club which he did for a time.  He appointed Neale Daniher and we had some fantastic times under his leadership but by 2001 with many influential (and normal) supporters and members of his own Board dissatisfied with his leadership it all hit the fan.  Joe threatened a spill of the Board mid season but thankfully that was averted and he lost the subsequent election battle with Szondy, who I backed, and who was to turn out to be the worst Chairman in recent times.

Joe put a lot of money into the club but sadly his style was confrontational and controversial with his many battles with the AFL doing little to help our cause.  He decided to expose our salary cap rorts (overseen by guess who - Cam Schwab) when the AFL had no interest in them causing many to question his motives.  He exposed them by getting his own lawyers to audit our payments but the auditors report, as I understand it, was never tabled with the Board and his Board were unaware that he was going to have a news conference exposing the breaches.  I think I'm right in saying all this but perhaps either Redleg or WJ would like to comment as I think at the time they were quite close to Joe.

Of course it's all water under the bridge but as Whispering Jack has said on so many occasions - if you ignore the lessons of history you are prone to repeat them. I still believe that our greatest failing has been having Chairmen who did not necessarily have MFC as their primary motive for holding the position.  Joe arguably led the rest of the field in this respect but he was a larger than life character who certainly made life interesting and promoted our club. 

Anyway thankfully after many years the AFL has taken control and we have a fantastic CEO and a Board who know their role and I think we can be as confident in our future now as at any time since the AFL was formed.

 

 

[Palace Dees 2,330]

8 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Joe was never one to back away from a battle and it looks like he's going as far as he can with this one.

A fascinating character in Melbourne's history.  He took the opportunity to lead the fight against the merger in 1996 when approached by Brian Dixon.  Whilst the official result voted in favour of the merger many argue there were such anomalies in the count we (Joe) would have challenged it in court had the Hawks not rejected the proposal and saved our bacon.

I remember after the vote feeling that Joe had the opportunity to galvanize our club which he did for a time.  He appointed Neale Daniher and we had some fantastic times under his leadership but by 2001 with many influential (and normal) supporters and members of his own Board dissatisfied with his leadership it all hit the fan.  Joe threatened a spill of the Board mid season but thankfully that was averted and he lost the subsequent election battle with Szondy, who I backed, and who was to turn out to be the worst Chairman in recent times.

Joe put a lot of money into the club but sadly his style was confrontational and controversial with his many battles with the AFL doing little to help our cause.  He decided to expose our salary cap rorts (overseen by guess who - Cam Schwab) when the AFL had no interest in them causing many to question his motives.  He exposed them by getting his own lawyers to audit our payments but the auditors report, as I understand it, was never tabled with the Board and his Board were unaware that he was going to have a news conference exposing the breaches.  I think I'm right in saying all this but perhaps either Redleg or WJ would like to comment as I think at the time they were quite close to Joe.

Of course it's all water under the bridge but as Whispering Jack has said on so many occasions - if you ignore the lessons of history you are prone to repeat them. I still believe that our greatest failing has been having Chairmen who did not necessarily have MFC as their primary motive for holding the position.  Joe arguably led the rest of the field in this respect but he was a larger than life character who certainly made life interesting and promoted our club. 

Anyway thankfully after many years the AFL has taken control and we have a fantastic CEO and a Board who know their role and I think we can be as confident in our future now as at any time since the AFL was formed.

 

 

A great synopsis of events of the day BB.  We have a lot to thank Joe for (I still have my No Merger banner in the garage) as we do Brian Dixon and others.  Unfortunately Joe tried to run MFC as his business, never really understanding we are fundamentally a sporting club with need of good business acumen in management.  It's a fine and difficult balance to find and maintain but he will still be remembered as a saving grace when we needed one - and he did put his money where his mouth was.  

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

A guy that knew Jack S about football. Trying to run a football club.

His time in the drivers seat was the start of the down hill slide.

His money meant Nothing. The culture started its collapse at that time.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,225]

He's the only MFC person in my lifetime who has stood up to the AFL and the power clubs of the game and for that I'll always have a spot in my heart for him. He helped make us relevant and refused to let us be the pushover we have so often been.

[hemingway 7,627]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's the only MFC person in my lifetime who has stood up to the AFL and the power clubs of the game and for that I'll always have a spot in my heart for him. He helped make us relevant and refused to let us be the pushover we have so often been.

Agree with is in part but his personality and style meant that ultimately within the club he was very divisive and got too many people off side. Great in a fight but not a bridge builder.

[stuie 7,374]

3 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

A guy that knew Jack S about football. Trying to run a football club.

His time in the drivers seat was the start of the down hill slide.

His money meant Nothing. The culture started its collapse at that time.

Yeah that downhill slide that took us to a Grand Final....

 

[Goodvibes 3,596]

14 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Joe threatened a spill of the Board mid season but thankfully that was averted and he lost the subsequent election battle with Szondy, who I backed, and who was to turn out to be the worst Chairman in recent times.

As you know BB, I too backed Szondy but in our defence I think it was more about ousting Gutnick as opposed to supporting Szondy. Gutnick was dangerous and Szondy was hopeless. Sometimes you need to see a well run football club to understand exactly how poor things once were. I can't help but imagine what Daniher and his team might have been capable of with a fully unified and supportive board and chairman.

[Wilson7 2,670]

19 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

A guy that knew Jack S about football. Trying to run a football club.

His time in the drivers seat was the start of the down hill slide.

His money meant Nothing. The culture started its collapse at that time.

One of the worst posts i have read

[Biffen 12,943]

If Joe needed tanker loads of bullsh*t he should have come straight here.

 

[dee-luded 2,959]

On 21/12/2015 at 6:23 PM, Barney Rubble said:

A guy that knew Jack S about football. Trying to run a football club.

His time in the drivers seat was the start of the down hill slide.

His money meant Nothing. The culture started its collapse at that time.

some time, around then,,,,,,  very likely....  but  see all these changes from 1992, & pinpoint the reason, (or reasons)..... for things starting to go sour. > > > check from 1992 - 2000 ;  the Presidents, the CEO's, Coaches... so sometime after Stuie Spencer gave up the Presidents chair, things started to slowly go awry.

On 21/12/2015 at 8:47 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's the only MFC person in my lifetime who has stood up to the AFL and the power clubs of the game and for that I'll always have a spot in my heart for him. He helped make us relevant and refused to let us be the pushover we have so often been.

true IMO, & I wonder if now with someone like PJ in the CEO's chair,  & Roosy overseeing Football, I can't help but wonder If Joe G could sit back & watch these talented people do the Job...

 

..... circumstances & the environment of the time,,, obviously create the outcomes, which we then see in the papers.

[Whispering_Jack 30,198]

On 21 December 2015 at 2:25 AM, Baghdad Bob said:

Joe was never one to back away from a battle and it looks like he's going as far as he can with this one.

A fascinating character in Melbourne's history.  He took the opportunity to lead the fight against the merger in 1996 when approached by Brian Dixon.  Whilst the official result voted in favour of the merger many argue there were such anomalies in the count we (Joe) would have challenged it in court had the Hawks not rejected the proposal and saved our bacon.

I remember after the vote feeling that Joe had the opportunity to galvanize our club which he did for a time.  He appointed Neale Daniher and we had some fantastic times under his leadership but by 2001 with many influential (and normal) supporters and members of his own Board dissatisfied with his leadership it all hit the fan.  Joe threatened a spill of the Board mid season but thankfully that was averted and he lost the subsequent election battle with Szondy, who I backed, and who was to turn out to be the worst Chairman in recent times.

Joe put a lot of money into the club but sadly his style was confrontational and controversial with his many battles with the AFL doing little to help our cause.  He decided to expose our salary cap rorts (overseen by guess who - Cam Schwab) when the AFL had no interest in them causing many to question his motives.  He exposed them by getting his own lawyers to audit our payments but the auditors report, as I understand it, was never tabled with the Board and his Board were unaware that he was going to have a news conference exposing the breaches.  I think I'm right in saying all this but perhaps either Redleg or WJ would like to comment as I think at the time they were quite close to Joe.

Of course it's all water under the bridge but as Whispering Jack has said on so many occasions - if you ignore the lessons of history you are prone to repeat them. I still believe that our greatest failing has been having Chairmen who did not necessarily have MFC as their primary motive for holding the position.  Joe arguably led the rest of the field in this respect but he was a larger than life character who certainly made life interesting and promoted our club. 

Anyway thankfully after many years the AFL has taken control and we have a fantastic CEO and a Board who know their role and I think we can be as confident in our future now as at any time since the AFL was formed.

Pretty much right Bob although supporters of Joe would maintain that the practice of rorting the salary cap was widespread and began before Gutnick and Schwab took up their positions and that Joe did a deal which saved us a heftier sanction because we'd been caught with our hands in the cookie jar. 

I share your confidence about the future. Hopefully, our Chairpersons, Boards and CEOs turn out to be largely anonymous in the future and let our footballers do the talking on the field.

[junk 342]

Joe will now be entitled to life membership at MFC now!!!

[Guest]

Diamond Joe hey?
I always felt that in some ways that he was forced out by the old school tie network. This was evidenced by the fact that Ron Walker was supposed to be his successor before Joe called out the would be Brutus' in the board's ranks. In some ways, he contributed to his downfall with his crash through or crash style of leadership. 
If Joe had taken Brian Dixon with him then he would have had a chance for greater longevity in my mind. He might have been able to educate him on how to survive the bear pit of MFC politics. From memory however, the board that Joe had to accept as part of the peace deal wanted no part of Dixon and Joe acquiesced to their wishes  with barely a word of protest.

[jnrmac 20,097]

Joe has an appalling business reputation for a good reason. Google any of his companies to fnd out why. Spent millions of other peoples money searching for diamonds because his Rabbi in New York told him where to look. Seriously? Charlatan of the highest order

Complete disaster for the MFC. Squealed to the AFL about salary cap breaches hoping for a reduced or zero penalty, The AFL slapped us with fines and draft penalties as well as players receiving tax audits. Did it off his own bat without discussing it at board level.

People who think Joe was good for the MFC should learn more about what he did and what he was like.

 

[stuie 7,374]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Complete disaster for the MFC.

 

We got to only our second Grand Final in 50 years during his tenure. Not sure what your definition of "complete disaster" is...

 

[Guest]

Complete disaster is a stretch.
Like Jeff Kennett at Hawthorn, Joe had his pros and cons. 
His pros were that he did show leadership when we desperately needed some. He gave us a profile when we desperately needed some.
His cons were that he was too much of a bull in a china shop (a lot like Kennett). Consequences were for other people to deal with.
As good as Balmey turned out to be as a football manager at Geelong and Collingwood, Joe was 100% correct in having sacked him. The club needed a good boot up the ar*e at the time.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

On 26 December 2015 at 9:22 PM, ENYAW said:

Joe will now be entitled to life membership at MFC now!!!

He can buy one with someone else's assets. Money talks.

 

10 hours ago, stuie said:

We got to only our second Grand Final in 50 years during his tenure. Not sure what your definition of "complete disaster" is...

 

Like Joe had very much at all to do with that Stuie. Can always rely on you to add 2 + 2 and get 5.

Not a great idea to edit quotes to reduce context.

[PaulRB 6,372]

Didn't he tip in a couple of mill of his own money? 

Not a great President, but was there when we needed him, committed to the red and blue, and no worse than most presidents we've had.

Why the desire to bring him down? 

BTW, who was the President who sacked Norm Smith and started "the curse"? 

[stuie 7,374]

11 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Like Joe had very much at all to do with that Stuie. Can always rely on you to add 2 + 2 and get 5.

Not a great idea to edit quotes to reduce context.

Right, so he can be blamed for ruining the culture of the players but not for the success of the players...?

Demonland logic at it's finest.

 

 

[Crompton's the man 659]

40 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Didn't he tip in a couple of mill of his own money? 

Not a great President, but was there when we needed him, committed to the red and blue, and no worse than most presidents we've had.

Why the desire to bring him down? 

BTW, who was the President who sacked Norm Smith and started "the curse"? 

It was five and no one could be sure MFC would still exist without that contribution.

 

Like Brian Dixon, it would be good to see him included in the family once again ( never said he was perfect neither - I've read some of the court judgement summaries)

[dazzledavey36 54,951]

23 hours ago, stuie said:

We got to only our second Grand Final in 50 years during his tenure. Not sure what your definition of "complete disaster" is...

 

Whats that got to do with Joe? If anything its Neale Daniher that deserves that credit.

In fact Joe Gutnick didn't bother to attend the 2000 grand final..

[stuie 7,374]

14 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Whats that got to do with Joe? If anything its Neale Daniher that deserves that credit.

In fact Joe Gutnick didn't bother to attend the 2000 grand final..

Errrrrr..... He was the President of the club mate. Not saying he was solely responsible, obviously, but he was in charge of the whole place at the time, so probably deserves a little credit hey?

Also, your comment about him "not bothering" to attend the game shows you have no actual idea what you're talking about in regards to Gutnick.