10.38am: HAWKS COACH NOT EXPECTING CARLISLE TRADE

After Hawthorn made a remarkable bid to land to Jake Carlisle after several days of fruitless talks between Essendon and St Kilda, the key position player's future continues to remain up in the air.

While the Bombers said on Thursday afternoon they were committed to the Hawks' offer if they could get it over the line, four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson isn't expecting to have Carlisle on his books in 2016.

Clarkson, who - as one of three of Australia's coaches - announced the International Rules squad on Friday, said he still expected Carlisle to get to the Saints.

Edit:- WTF is going on?

I suspect Clarkson wants St Kilda to part with their pick 5.

Depth is a highly valuable commodity. bringing in players to provide competition and a back up plan can only be bettered by bringing in stars, but we can't have 44 stars on the list.

Every year I read comments about how Melbourne have now got depth because we picked up X in the draft, traded for player Y and delisted list cloggers in Z. If the "depth" merely provides competition for the fringe "best 22", it usually means that they are borderline AFL standard.

Bottom teams don't have genuine depth, they just have like for like. On the other hand, teams like Hawthorn genuinely have 25-30 players of AFL standard. Players like Simpkin and Spangher have been able to play in premierships because they are genuine depth.

I do... in a way.

What's our biggest issue been? It's depth. Our depth sucks. When we get a few injuries and the replacements are guys like M. Jones and Bail, you know we have serious problems.

Melksham, Bugg and Kennedy represent a clear upgrade on many other players. Melksham will be best 22. Bugg and Kennedy will be knocking on the door. We haven't had that in a long time. We bemoan how easy it is for guys to get games, and improving our depth puts pressure on the list to perform.

There is more to it than that and I don't feel as though I've articulated it very well. I guess what I'm saying is that the above 3 do improve the list and, if we can't get an A grader in this t trade period, then we need to focus on getting better in other ways so when that gun player does become available they are interested in playing for us.

I would say our biggest issue is we have no A graders...yes we have a few who more than likely will be but we still lack true star power.

I would say our biggest issue is we have no A graders...yes we have a few who more than likely will be but we still lack true star power.

Agreed. Roos said himself all season long that we would be targeting an A+ midfielder.

I get Melksham, I could be convinced that perhaps Bugg might fit in but I dont get Kennedy

NORTH Melbourne has secured young Hawk Jed Anderson.

North will exchange its first round (currently No.15) and third round (No.54) picks for Anderson, as well as receiving selections 38 and 40 from the Hawks.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-16/north-melbourne-snares-young-hawk-anderson

NORTH Melbourne has secured young Hawk Jed Anderson.

North will exchange its first round (currently No.15) and third round (No.54) picks for Anderson, as well as receiving selections 38 and 40 from the Hawks.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-16/north-melbourne-snares-young-hawk-anderson

That would make him the only player under the age of 30 down at Arden Street, no?

Need pick 3. The club should buy Howe a single way ticket to Gold Coast right now.

Need pick 3. The club should buy Howe a single way ticket to Gold Coast right now.

I don't think the plane ticket is the issue...

Edited October 16, 201510 yr by Good Times Grimes

When I hear 'we lack depth' I read it as saying 'we lack competition for places' but that is not a problem - we have had competition for places, but those competing for those places are just not very good.

Our first problem is our midfield doesn't have bonafide stars (yet), and our second problem is our midfield doesn't run deeper than 6.

That's our real problem with 'depth' - we move Jones, Vince, and Viney out for a rest or they are out of form and we feel it - this is being rectified but it really won't be rectified by getting more fringe players to provide 'competition.' These talents will still be beaten by deeper midfields.

Do they ?

I know what they are and do

I'm confussed. So do you know what attributes they bring to the table or not?

When I hear 'we lack depth' I read it as saying 'we lack competition for places' but that is not a problem - we have had competition for places, but those competing for those places are just not very good.

Our first problem is our midfield doesn't have bonafide stars (yet), and our second problem is our midfield doesn't run deeper than 6.

That's our real problem with 'depth' - we move Jones, Vince, and Viney out for a rest or they are out of form and we feel it - this is being rectified but it really won't be rectified by getting more fringe players to provide 'competition.' These talents will still be beaten by deeper midfields.

Well they will be beaten by better midfields which usually have depth as well. As you say we feel it when we have to rely on very poor players to fill holes. However, if we can replace them with decent 'fringe' players we will win more matches. These days you can't cover for a couple of very poor mid-fielders. Even if our best mid-fielders were star-like, this would still be true. Until we can attract/develop some A graders, we have to start winning more and building depth is needed for that. Rome was not built in a day.

Why would the Pies do that if they could trade those picks to GWS themselves? Obviously more convoluted with Treloar involved, but they could just as easily offer pick 7 + 2 second rounders + next year's first rounder for Treloar + pick 8.

The high value of picks no longer has any meaning to Academy clubs because they only need to accumulate points, NOT high picks. If the AFL had thought this through, they'd have banned Academy clubs from trading out their first round picks to prevent such manipulation of the bidding system, but... we're talking about the AFL here. These clubs now have more currency with a hoard of second rather than first rounders.

Didn't bidding use to have to occur BEFORE trade period to prevent clubs trading out early picks in the knowledge they could use a later pick on a FS/Academy player??? Why did the AFL change this? Corrupt.

When I hear 'we lack depth' I read it as saying 'we lack competition for places' but that is not a problem - we have had competition for places, but those competing for those places are just not very good.

Our first problem is our midfield doesn't have bonafide stars (yet), and our second problem is our midfield doesn't run deeper than 6.

That's our real problem with 'depth' - we move Jones, Vince, and Viney out for a rest or they are out of form and we feel it - this is being rectified but it really won't be rectified by getting more fringe players to provide 'competition.' These talents will still be beaten by deeper midfields.

It won't be rectified completely but it will a) increase competitiveness against other lesser midfielder in the short term possibly enabling us to win those Hanes against st kilda or essendon, and b) it will provide support to Brayshaw, Petracca et al as they develop.

I'm confussed. So do you know what attributes they bring to the table or not?

Of course I do.

I just disagree that their particular assets are meritorious.

We are still pushing for a GC deal with Howe.

Edit: According to trade radio.

Edited October 16, 201510 yr by ManDee

Is this thread about what is happening on trade radio?

Is this thread about what is happening on trade radio?

The thread title would suggest so

Is this thread about what is happening on trade radio?

If you were hanging on every word from Trade Radio, that would be a week-and-a-half of your life you'd never get back.

Understand the lack of excitiment, but at the same time they fit the typical Roos recruit that turn into very good team players.

Both have certain attributes I like, so I'll back the club in on both of them.

Yeah but Roos is only here for one more year.

Townsend from GWS to Richmond for a 4th round. So third round for Bugg should be pretty easy.

10.38am: HAWKS COACH NOT EXPECTING CARLISLE TRADE

After Hawthorn made a remarkable bid to land to Jake Carlisle after several days of fruitless talks between Essendon and St Kilda, the key position player's future continues to remain up in the air.

While the Bombers said on Thursday afternoon they were committed to the Hawks' offer if they could get it over the line, four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson isn't expecting to have Carlisle on his books in 2016.

Clarkson, who - as one of three of Australia's coaches - announced the International Rules squad on Friday, said he still expected Carlisle to get to the Saints.

Edit:- WTF is going on?

St Kilda aren't blinking

St Kilda aren't blinking

St Kilda would know what they have offered Carlisle, and would probably know it's not a patch on what Hawthorn could fit within their cap, so the likelihood of him turning down a switch to Waverley is great.

St Kilda would know what they have offered Carlisle, and would probably know it's not a patch on what Hawthorn could fit within their cap, so the likelihood of him turning down a switch to Waverley is great.

SEN reported this morning Carlisle has been offered $600-650K for 4 years at the Saints. ( makes our deal with Melksham look more than reasonable!)

Hawthorn couldn't come close to this with their salary cap, so Calisle wants to get to Saints.

However, Essendon want pick 5 which the Saints won't provide, as they have for the past 2 season traded players ( Goddard, McEvoy, Dal Santo) for picks. The won't give up high picks, so they won't reverse that policy now.

Both need a 3rd party involved

SEN reported this morning Carlisle has been offered $600-650K for 4 years at the Saints. ( makes our deal with Melksham look more than reasonable!)

Hawthorn couldn't come close to this with their salary cap, so Calisle wants to get to Saints.

However, Essendon want pick 5 which the Saints won't provide, as they have for the past 2 season traded players ( Goddard, McEvoy, Dal Santo) for picks. The won't give up high picks, so they won't reverse that policy now.

Both need a 3rd party involved

what you suggesting there George