Is the afl competition any more even since the draft & salary cap??

[Demonsone 1,635]

The afl introduced a salary cap & draft to stop clubs going broke & stop the domination of power clubs....

Has this worked?

Premiers & Runners up since 2000

Haw : flags 08,13,14, 15? Runners up 12, 15?

Geelong flags 07,09,11 runners up 08

Swans flags 05, 12 runners up 06, 14

Brisbane flags 01,02,03 runners up 04

West Coast flags 06 runners up 05

Port flags 04 runners up 07

Coll flag 10, runners up 02,03,11

Ess flag 2000 runners up 01

Saints runners up 09, 10

Freo runners up 13

Melb runners up 2000

11 out 15 premierships have been won by 3 teams........ So what's really changed from the the 70s & 80s...

[demon-4-life 467]

Yep, that's the results with the salary cap and draft rules the way they are.

Imagine what the results would be without them.

Collingwood, West Coast, Adelaide up the top every year with the best players, facilities and staff.

Don't underestimate the power that the salary cap has.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It's worked very well, look at the success Sydney and Brisbane had with extra salary cap space, massive advantage.

The variable will always be how well teams draft and that ultimately is the difference.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Clint Bizkit

[rpfc 27,591]

Ok, think about this - how many superstars change clubs?

Not many, hey?

So let's just say that clubs all draft like they know what the fark they are doing...

Even competition yeah?

Honestly...

[Adzman 2,085]

Hard to analyse, because the game has changed so much over that time making list development and turnover so much harder to predict.

Hawthorn were the beneficiaries of free agency being new when they started their rise. Geelong also avoided a rebuild due to free agency.

Things should level out soon. The cap has worked, free agency compo needs to be eliminated for things to be more even.

[rjay 23,967]

Hard to analyse, because the game has changed so much over that time making list development and turnover so much harder to predict.

Hawthorn were the beneficiaries of free agency being new when they started their rise. Geelong also avoided a rebuild due to free agency.

Things should level out soon. The cap has worked, free agency compo needs to be eliminated for things to be more even.

How does that work?

[Moonshadow 16,347]

Hard to argue against those facts. Not an even competition, getting less so every year. Even fleeting success does not ensure survival beyond the next TV rights. Does anyone think that a premiership by the Western Bulldogs in the next 3 years will lead to security? They'll breathe easier for a while, sure, but not for long. I actually admire Nth Melb. They won 2 flags under Pagan and have made the finals numerous years since, including the last 2, but IMO are only a couple of bottom 6 finishes away from perpetual Struggletown. The late 1980s and 1990s were a golden era where the competition was expanding and the opportunities (on and off field) for clubs that made the right choices could create sustained success. Most teams had periods down the bottom half, but clubs that rebound the quickest and managed themselves well put themselves in the best place to become the 'power' clubs of the future. Sometimes it's multiple flags, like Hawthorn or Geelong, or excellent marketing and branding, like Collingwood, or cornering the local market, like WCE and Adelaide. The reasons are not black and white and there's certainly exceptions, but it's clear that the competition for long term success is hardest for struggling clubs such as WB, North, Melbourne, St K and the clubs from NSW and Qld. What would be the best ongoing outcome for our club? The more the Dees have struggled over the last 10 years, the more that I've come to the conclusion that one or two flags are not enough. As much as one flag would be a dream come true, it's no longer enough. The market and the game have changed overwhelmingly since our last premiership. How do we become a 'power' club?

[Little Goffy 12,727]

Without the draft and salary cap, there would likely be four fewer teams in Victoria - Melbourne, North Melbourne, Footscray and St Kilda would all be non-viable in the massively more commercial, expensive and vulnerable modern context.

Of course, all that really means is cancelling out the oddness of the national game being a de facto expansion of the VFL. Losing four Victorian clubs would actually be terrific for the quality and economy of the game, but the alienation of a million supporters and the wave of recriminations would taint the game for decades. Quite rightly - I'd be a firm part of keeping the rage alive!

As for anyone saying 'cancel free agency compo to make the competition more balanced'... are you trolling or just bonkers?

[Demonsone 1,635]

Without the draft and salary cap, there would likely be four fewer teams in Victoria - Melbourne, North Melbourne, Footscray and St Kilda would all be non-viable in the massively more commercial, expensive and vulnerable modern context.

Of course, all that really means is cancelling out the oddness of the national game being a de facto expansion of the VFL. Losing four Victorian clubs would actually be terrific for the quality and economy of the game, but the alienation of a million supporters and the wave of recriminations would taint the game for decades. Quite rightly - I'd be a firm part of keeping the rage alive!

As for anyone saying 'cancel free agency compo to make the competition more balanced'... are you trolling or just bonkers?

So clubs like Melb are just making up the numbers.....Richmond have 70k membership & yet have not played in a Gf since 1982 & played in only 3-4 finals ... What's occurred is the large clubs to their credited have even become bigger & stronger, they are miles ahead in terms of facilities & attracting sponsors .. Throw in the fixture controlled by tv ratings which just continues to support the bigger clubs....

[Adzman 2,085]

How does that work?

Teams are allowing players to leave or not matching restricted free agent offers so they can get top end talent at the draft. Top end talent needs to go to bottom teams. I think you will find that if teams don't have compo picks that they will spend more time and money retaining required players instead of diluting the first 2 rounds of the draft.

[rjay 23,967]

Teams are allowing players to leave or not matching restricted free agent offers so they can get top end talent at the draft. Top end talent needs to go to bottom teams. I think you will find that if teams don't have compo picks that they will spend more time and money retaining required players instead of diluting the first 2 rounds of the draft.

...and the compo system allows for that. We get pick 3 for Frawley, the Hawks get pick 18 or 19 for Buddy.

Sorry, but I don't understand your point.

[praha 10,308]

Carlton and Richmond, "powerhouse" clubs, have been [censored] for the past 20+ years.

Essendon hasn't won a flag in 15 years (a drought for them).

North Melbourne and Bulldogs have been among the most consistent clubs in the league the last 15 years.

Brisbane won 3 flags.

Sydney won 2.

Geelong has always had a good culture and always played finals football.

Melbourne's just a crap club.

[Adzman 2,085]

...and the compo system allows for that. We get pick 3 for Frawley, the Hawks get pick 18 or 19 for Buddy.

Sorry, but I don't understand your point.

My point is that we won't have a fair system until compo picks have been abolished. Without compo picks the Hawks would have been given nothing for Buddy , which is fair given the talent raid they have had since fa started, and we would have retained frawley instead of being gifted a supreme talent like brayshaw. I'm not complaining about getting brayshaw, but if we are serious about a fair and equitable competition then free agency compo picks must go. Edited September 29, 2015 by Adzman

[rjay 23,967]

My point is that we won't have a fair system until compo picks have been abolished. Without compo picks the Hawks would have been given nothing for Buddy , which is fair given the talent raid they have had since fa started, and we would have retained frawley instead of being gifted a supreme talent like brayshaw. I'm not complaining about getting brayshaw, but if we are serious about a fair and equitable competition then free agency compo picks must go.

Under the current system all that would happen is the top clubs would still raid the lower clubs talent with the promise of a premiership and the lower clubs would get nothing in return.

The only way you could abolish compo picks and assist in providing a fair system is to ban top clubs access to free agents or have them pay a fair price.

[Middymalt 244]

We need a ground like the other 17 clubs GWS and GC have there's who paid for that the saints are walking away from Seaford who paid for that? Every club has had government and AFL funding except us, you can tour AAMI park but it's not ours I hope Jackson fights hard for it Drafting and salary caps are the least of our problems.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,498]

Under the current system all that would happen is the top clubs would still raid the lower clubs talent with the promise of a premiership and the lower clubs would get nothing in return.

The only way you could abolish compo picks and assist in providing a fair system is to ban top clubs access to free agents or have them pay a fair price.

Exactly. If they want to get rid of compo picks there needs to be certain caps put in place, otherwise it will get a lot worse. I actually think we've benefited from free agency so far, Brayshaw and Vince are the best examples.

I would be happy to abolish compo picks but there would need to be one of the following enforced:

1) A cap on how much clubs can spend on players e.g. if you finish first you can spend a maximum of $400k per year on a free agent. This then becomes greater as you move down the ladder.

2) No top 4 clubs can participate in free agency (fairly harsh but would help).

3) An age limit on who the top clubs can pick e.g. top 4 sides can only take players over the age of 28.

This would go a long way to helping even up the competition.

[Chris 2,892]

The afl introduced a salary cap & draft to stop clubs going broke & stop the domination of power clubs....

Has this worked?

Premiers & Runners up since 2000

Haw : flags 08,13,14, 15? Runners up 12, 15?

Geelong flags 07,09,11 runners up 08

Swans flags 05, 12 runners up 06, 14

Brisbane flags 01,02,03 runners up 04

West Coast flags 06 runners up 05

Port flags 04 runners up 07

Coll flag 10, runners up 02,03,11

Ess flag 2000 runners up 01

Saints runners up 09, 10

Freo runners up 13

Melb runners up 2000

11 out 15 premierships have been won by 3 teams........ So what's really changed from the the 70s & 80s...

To have any idea you would need to do the same analysis from the introduction of the cap and draft and then do it for the preceding era as well. You also need to remove the last 5 years or so due to the concessions given to the new clubs distorting the way the system works. Bringing in free agency when they did distorted it even further.

I also wouldn't look just at premierships won but would look at time in the top 4, you should probably also include time at the bottom (maybe bottom 6?) in the analysis as this would show the ups and downs of the system.

Very hard to tell anything from just premierships won.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Hard to analyse, because the game has changed so much over that time making list development and turnover so much harder to predict.

Hawthorn were the beneficiaries of free agency being new when they started their rise. Geelong also avoided a rebuild due to free agency.

Things should level out soon. The cap has worked, free agency compo needs to be eliminated for things to be more even.

Best thing to do with FA compo is for the club receiving the player to give up the draft pick of the level determined by the AFL, and the team losing the player then receives this.

It'll be kind of like a trade of player for pick, but more even.

This would've meant last year, we would've got pick 18 for Frawley, but Hawthorn's first live draft pick wouldn't have been until pick 36. If the Hawks then wanted to enter the draft in the first round, they'd have to trade out a player, which would be of higher standard to attract a first round pick.

[Jaded No More 58,661]

Ok, think about this - how many superstars change clubs?

Not many, hey?

Actually the 3 biggest stars of the last decade all left their club: Ablett, Judd & Buddy

Now add Dangerfield

Lots of stars are leaving clubs these days, even successful clubs.

[mauriesy 6,822]

I think a problem with free agency is that the clubs taking the free agent effectively pay very little for them.

All they do is go down one spot in the draft by virtue of the allocated compensation. If the free agent comes, say, from the bottom club and they get #2 as well as #1, all the other bottom clubs go back one spot in the draft.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think a problem with free agency is that the clubs taking the free agent effectively pay very little for them.

All they do is go down one spot in the draft by virtue of the allocated compensation. If the free agent comes, say, from the bottom club and they get #2 as well as #1, all the other bottom clubs go back one spot in the draft.

Not a very big disadvantage for the team receiving the player.

Instead of going from 18 to 19 (if it was the top team receiving the player), it'd make it a lot more equal if they went from 18 to 36. Bigger price to pay.

Ruling out ANY compensation for losing a FA is dumb, and will not support Gill's wishes of 18 strong clubs.

[Redleg 37,907]

GWS have 3 players to grab from their Academy this year with 2 of them said to be top 10 and more to come next year. Sydney are in a similar situation and took Heeney last year, probably the number 2 player with pick pick 18.

FA's want to go to the top clubs and they get them for nothing.

We can't even get a PP for 10 years of crap.

How the hell can we catch up?

Yeah its a great competition.

[grazman 6,577]

And if you look at where GWS draw their Academy players from its scary. Over the last 30 years the NSW Riverina has produced the likes of Carey, Longmire, Crawford, Kelly, Kirk, Kosi, Barry, Mooney, Cross, Bruest, Isaac Smith and a host of other 100+ game players. Then there's Canberra as well.

[praha 10,308]

GWS have 3 players to grab from their Academy this year with 2 of them said to be top 10 and more to come next year. Sydney are in a similar situation and took Heeney last year, probably the number 2 player with pick pick 18.

FA's want to go to the top clubs and they get them for nothing.

We can't even get a PP for 10 years of crap.

How the hell can we catch up?

Yeah its a great competition.

What about the Bulldogs? Port? North? As good as Fremantle has been, they haven't been successful after 20 years in the league (only 5 or 6 finals series I think?), and have drafted and developed superbly with little-to-no help from the league.

I know the current system and league isn't perfect, but it's no coincidence that a club that has been run as poorly as Melbourne has been is down the bottom for so long. I think a lot of the club's decisions are more to blame than any imperfections with drafting concessions and free agency.

A champion team will always beat a team of champions. I know it's cliche but if a club is run well from top to bottom, you'll see success. This is the same in business across every industry. If you have people that want to be there and want to win for the club, then they will win. Our problem has been complacency, and righting that ship doesn't happen overnight.

[rpfc 27,591]

Actually the 3 biggest stars of the last decade all left their club: Ablett, Judd & Buddy

Now add Dangerfield

Lots of stars are leaving clubs these days, even successful clubs.

4 would be not many...

And they went from Geelong to Gold Coast, WCE to Carl, Haw to Syd, and Adelaide to Geelong - hardly the sort of 'rich taking from the poor' bleating that the OP espouses.

And I don't mean Vince, Redden, Melksham, Howe, et al.

I mean the superstars like above - they are the ones that alter clubs when they arrive and when they leave.

We haven't had any history with these players.

Hogan will be one. Brayshaw is looking like getting there, and we all hope Petracca might be one too...

'Drafting well' is the rider on the Equalisation-regulator known as the draft - and up till the last few years - we haven't.

Edited September 30, 2015 by rpfc