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He's been a diabolical dud. To rate him "incredibly highly" is utterly nonsensical.

Thankfully, it looks like he'll reach his potential, which is so far from his draft selection it's not funny. Nonetheless, we're grateful for small mercies.

He's a mistake. But he's a mistake that's becoming a valuable entity as we move forward.

He's a finisher - and a classy one at that.

To rate him as a diabolical dud is utterly nonsensical.

It seems modern footy has passed you by.

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He's been a diabolical dud. To rate him "incredibly highly" is utterly nonsensical.

Thankfully, it looks like he'll reach his potential, which is so far from his draft selection it's not funny. Nonetheless, we're grateful for small mercies.

He's a mistake. But he's a mistake that's becoming a valuable entity as we move forward.

One of the more ridiculous comments I've read on this site.

Jack Watts is becoming a vital Cog in a young team that's going places,and easily one of the most skilled players in the competition.

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you don't think that the supporters wanting a more physical Melbourne team, has helped the administration & the coaches to see that we really want our club & its players to fly the flag loud & proud; & that the coaches should work towards this.

I think Jack & the whole list, felt the desire of the supporters, that we want a hard tough team full of ruggedness... of that I am certain... & the supporters have the power to make & to break players.

& the supporters will show what it is they want from the game; & what they don't, thru booing, jeering, cheering, & from non attendance...

I think you would find that the supporters wanted an ultimatum for jack, fire up, or f-o. I think it got to that point. It was reaching it mid last year, in Roosy's first season, with even Dawes y showing how to run, & chase.

it doesn't take confidence to chase. it doesn't take confidence to show some intent. it requires the desire to do so.

I think the coaching staff always wanted that, but mismanagement of our list through really poor periods of draft has led to a period in our football history that we all will not look back on fondly.

The problem Watts faces/faced is one of expectation, expectation of his impact from the start of his career, right through now to expectations of his poor performances and thus they are continually highlighted. Whilst, as he said in the interview, he would love to remove all the lapses that he has, players have lapses in concentration and they will continue to happen wit hall players it is just we as fans and also the media choose to highlight the lapse from a prefferred whipping boy rather than anyone else.

Do I think that the supporters have had any impact on Watts game? No

Do i think that the supporters have had any impact on the style of football we play? No

Am i happy with the changes that both Watts and the coaching staff have made? Yes

I think you will find that supporters of the Melbourne football club who boo'd Jack Watts are knobs and really can't call themselves supporters. Whilst a trade was always an option for Jack, he was never going to be delisted and I am stoked about the way he has been able to play the last 2 months and hope he can carry it through the rest of the year. That being said, if he has one or two games where he falls below the standard he is starting to set, watch all of the stander critics talk about how he is not in our best 22 and how he is a waste of a football player.

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He's been a diabolical dud. To rate him "incredibly highly" is utterly nonsensical.

Thankfully, it looks like he'll reach his potential, which is so far from his draft selection it's not funny. Nonetheless, we're grateful for small mercies.

He's a mistake. But he's a mistake that's becoming a valuable entity as we move forward.

I don't think this view holds water anymore. That No. 1 draft picks should become stars is a view that belongs in 2000 I think. There have just been way too many of them that haven't for me to be able to hang on to that idea. There is obviously a higher probably of yielding a star with the first pick, but a failure to do so doesn't make the player unworthy.

We all hoped that Jack would become elite. We're all disappointed that he hasn't. I think you need to adjust your expectations and valuation of what No. 1 draft picks should be though. They're no less of a lottery than any number pick in the draft. You said yourself he's showing he will probably be valuable going forward - in a lottery that is a good result. Not the best, but good, and certainly better than dud, mistake etc.

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A lot of players take time to reach their true potential. Players like Bryce Gibbs, Tom Hawkins and even Gary Ablett Jr all started very slowly before reaching the optimal level. However, the business that is AFL doesn't give every player the time required. However, I doubt these players were just "lucky" to be given the time they needed. I imagine they've all worked hard and gave their respective clubs a reason to keep persisting. Like the others, I suspect Jack Watts has worked hard to get where he is. I hope he realises he will continue to have to work hard for the rest of his career. At his best, he is an unbelievably polished performer.

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A lot of people tend to forget, correct me if I am wrong, that he didn't get a chance to come through the TAC Levels. He pretty much went straight from school boys footy to draft, then to the AFL. He was always going to take more time to develop than most.

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This argument depends on whether you are talking about Watts as a player, Watts as a pick, and whether you realise that it doesn't matter anymore where he was picked.

It just doesn't.

He just helped us beat a team we hadn't beaten since 2 years before he arrived at the club - you would have to tie yourself up in metaphorical knots to argue the player on the weekend a 'dud.'

And some of the 'hate' was more than 'disappointment,' B59...

It was petty, over-the-top vitriol that became a race in 'who can make the most disgraceful statement' about a player, and a Demon no less.

He isn't 'out of the woods' yet either - he has to continue with this form to cement himself as a HFF/wing in what, I hope, will be a good team over the next 5 years.

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A lot of players take time to reach their true potential. Players like Bryce Gibbs, Tom Hawkins and even Gary Ablett Jr all started very slowly before reaching the optimal level. However, the business that is AFL doesn't give every player the time required. However, I doubt these players were just "lucky" to be given the time they needed. I imagine they've all worked hard and gave their respective clubs a reason to keep persisting. Like the others, I suspect Jack Watts has worked hard to get where he is. I hope he realises he will continue to have to work hard for the rest of his career. At his best, he is an unbelievably polished performer.

Wasn't Tom Hawkins 1st game against us. 5 goals from memory???

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Geeze I wish he had kicked that goal. The step and then the jets to go past two players like they were standing still. Would've been a great one for the highlight reel.

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The past doesn't exist, and Jack Watts is a critical cog in our team as we rise.

He still has the potential to get much better as we get better.

A forward line of Hogan, Gartlett, Watts, Kent, Petracca(?), Dawes/Pederson is already causing teams headaches, and once our midfield is sorted and I50s rise, Watts' skill, engine and increasing nouse will deliver scores for himself as well as those around him...

He's currently No# 2 in Score assists at MFC (behind Brayshaw).

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One of the problems of AFL is that kids are taken and drafted far too early. There are exceptions and someone like Brayshaw comes to mind. However, we see many players that take 4-6 years to develop physically and mentally. The time it takes to transition from adolescents to young men. Ideally young players should be held back and not drafted until 21-23 years of age. The comparison is someone like Watts or Gawn, and someone like Vandenberg. The latter has a hard body and mind. Also we are seeing more and more young kids that come to a club with injuries or develop serious and sometimes chronic injuries. Others would know better but I understand that in other sports like American football, players are drafted at a later age. Basically kids are pushed far too early. They are thrown into a tough physical sport and subjected to intense pressure and public scrutiny. No one likes criticism, not even adults, but one can only imagine what kids between 18 to 20 must feel. They are given far too much money at a young age, but that's another story.

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The past doesn't exist, and Jack Watts is a critical cog in our team as we rise.

He still has the potential to get much better as we get better.

A forward line of Hogan, Gartlett, Watts, Kent, Petracca(?), Dawes/Pederson is already causing teams headaches, and once our midfield is sorted and I50s rise, Watts' skill, engine and increasing nouse will deliver scores for himself as well as those around him...

He's currently No# 2 in Score assists at MFC (behind Brayshaw).

That's more interesting (and pleasing) to me than the main point you've made (which is also interesting and pleasing).

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One of the problems of AFL is that kids are taken and drafted far too early. There are exceptions and someone like Brayshaw comes to mind. However, we see many players that take 4-6 years to develop physically and mentally. The time it takes to transition from adolescents to young men. Ideally young players should be held back and not drafted until 21-23 years of age. The comparison is someone like Watts or Gawn, and someone like Vandenberg. The latter has a hard body and mind. Also we are seeing more and more young kids that come to a club with injuries or develop serious and sometimes chronic injuries. Others would know better but I understand that in other sports like American football, players are drafted at a later age. Basically kids are pushed far too early. They are thrown into a tough physical sport and subjected to intense pressure and public scrutiny. No one likes criticism, not even adults, but one can only imagine what kids between 18 to 20 must feel. They are given far too much money at a young age, but that's another story.

The difference between Watts compared to Viney/Brayshaw is the type of player they are - if you are a midfielder you can ply your trade more easily straight off the bat without your lack of physical d'ment and experience being shown up as much. This is what makes Hogan's start so incredible, there is almost no sign at all that he is a 1st/2nd year player and he's a genuine KPF.

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That's more interesting (and pleasing) to me than the main point you've made (which is also interesting and pleasing).

An often underrated and under reported statistic.

Gus 0.88 JW 0.69 per game

Interestingly, given the mention of Tom Lynch (Adelaide) in the trade thread, he leads the competition with a massive 1.38 per game

Imagine those three in the same forward line

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I think the coaching staff always wanted that, but mismanagement of our list through really poor periods of draft has led to a period in our football history that we all will not look back on fondly.

The problem Watts faces/faced is one of expectation, expectation of his impact from the start of his career, right through now to expectations of his poor performances and thus they are continually highlighted. Whilst, as he said in the interview, he would love to remove all the lapses that he has, players have lapses in concentration and they will continue to happen wit hall players it is just we as fans and also the media choose to highlight the lapse from a prefferred whipping boy rather than anyone else.

Do I think that the supporters have had any impact on Watts game? No

Do i think that the supporters have had any impact on the style of football we play? No

Am i happy with the changes that both Watts and the coaching staff have made? Yes

I think you will find that supporters of the Melbourne football club who boo'd Jack Watts are knobs and really can't call themselves supporters. Whilst a trade was always an option for Jack, he was never going to be delisted and I am stoked about the way he has been able to play the last 2 months and hope he can carry it through the rest of the year. That being said, if he has one or two games where he falls below the standard he is starting to set, watch all of the stander critics talk about how he is not in our best 22 and how he is a waste of a football player.

no, your miss-understanding the issue.. the expectation comes from Watts getting regular senior games.. that is natural, & happens at all clubs & from all supporters. & many players have had to cope with that. this is footy & that happens.

to me the issue stems from Watts being thrown to the wolves, way before his time,,, stealing his learning to crawl time, & then to walk, in footy parlance. he was crucified by being brought in way too soon. he wasn't ready for the physical & needed more time to show himself his own abilities amongst mature bodies at VFL level.

however once in the Senior side, the supporters naturally want to see effort..... they did not. its like chicken & EGG, but don't blame the supporters for the chickens antics.

Watts is now leaving 'Bambi' behind, finally, by the sounds of things? And I am certainly glad of this. its extremely welcome news.

the supporters didn't put the conservativeness & timidity into young Jack, thats nature & nurture. the supporters wanted to jolt Jack out of this timidity,,,, as they had no trust in our past footy departments, to get it dunn.

this new footy dept' is a different story, & I think we can see the supporters calming down mostly, with the new trends.

the issue wasn't expectation it was disappointment.......every single player faces expectation. upon reason. jack couldn't meet the expectation as he was rushed too soon.

thankfully in good hands, & he having a stable mind, he is responding.

Edited by dee-luded
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I see Watts as a rich man's Jack Gunston, who has spent more time in a much crappier system.

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His best game for the season I thought.

Gets into space, uses the ball so effectively and been holding his marks. Has a lot of poise now. The game seems to be slowing down for him. Even thought his pressure was good. Lay a few tackles and limited the oppositions space.

He has a beautiful side step with those quick feet. That run at goal where his missed in the second half shows his willingness to take the game on now.

Only small things I did notice is that he needs to have a little better spacial awareness in close. Some of his short handball gives were a little slow or too tight to a man that had Pies around him. I think that just comes down the concentration and better intensity in close though. He will continue to work on his contested game but his strengths are showing a lot this year.

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He's been a diabolical dud. To rate him "incredibly highly" is utterly nonsensical.

Thankfully, it looks like he'll reach his potential, which is so far from his draft selection it's not funny. Nonetheless, we're grateful for small mercies.

He's a mistake. But he's a mistake that's becoming a valuable entity as we move forward.

I think you've interpreted "to rate him incredibly highly" too strictly. I don't think many if anybody would rate his output highly to date, in that respect he has been exceptionally disappointing when measured against his draft position. But many can see his qualities and rate them highly. He has elite qualities. Ball handling, speed, vision, decision making and execution. These attributes have been negated because of his unwillingness to go and get the ball and understand the defensive side of football and without those qualities you are of little if any value.

I held on to "Watts hope" until about the middle of May where I finally declared my hope/optimism broken. I should have done this earlier because from about mid June we've seen a Watts who is much more aggressive and positive. We can all pontificate on why it is what it is and I think it is a combination of maturity/development/toxic environment/ management of expectation/learning the game/finally understanding. But the reality is Watts is now a dangerous player. With improvement he could become a significant player and with his elite attributes and in a good team may approach the player we were expecting.

The other intangible with Watts is how loyal he's been to the club, how much he loves playing with his team mates and how much the other players enjoy having him around. Without performance that is meaningless but it's valuable if he commands a spot in the team based on output.

How good do you think he'll be? That's the question. It's easy to critique his journey to date but so much more difficult to predict the destination. He may ultimately be a bust but he could also be elite. Not many have that as a possibility.

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I think you've interpreted "to rate him incredibly highly" too strictly. I don't think many if anybody would rate his output highly to date, in that respect he has been exceptionally disappointing when measured against his draft position. But many can see his qualities and rate them highly. He has elite qualities. Ball handling, speed, vision, decision making and execution. These attributes have been negated because of his unwillingness to go and get the ball and understand the defensive side of football and without those qualities you are of little if any value.

I held on to "Watts hope" until about the middle of May where I finally declared my hope/optimism broken. I should have done this earlier because from about mid June we've seen a Watts who is much more aggressive and positive. We can all pontificate on why it is what it is and I think it is a combination of maturity/development/toxic environment/ management of expectation/learning the game/finally understanding. But the reality is Watts is now a dangerous player. With improvement he could become a significant player and with his elite attributes and in a good team may approach the player we were expecting.

The other intangible with Watts is how loyal he's been to the club, how much he loves playing with his team mates and how much the other players enjoy having him around. Without performance that is meaningless but it's valuable if he commands a spot in the team based on output.

How good do you think he'll be? That's the question. It's easy to critique his journey to date but so much more difficult to predict the destination. He may ultimately be a bust but he could also be elite. Not many have that as a possibility.

The other intangible you can add is how the young supporters seem to love him.

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I think you've interpreted "to rate him incredibly highly" too strictly. I don't think many if anybody would rate his output highly to date, in that respect he has been exceptionally disappointing when measured against his draft position. But many can see his qualities and rate them highly. He has elite qualities. Ball handling, speed, vision, decision making and execution. These attributes have been negated because of his unwillingness to go and get the ball and understand the defensive side of football and without those qualities you are of little if any value.

I held on to "Watts hope" until about the middle of May where I finally declared my hope/optimism broken. I should have done this earlier because from about mid June we've seen a Watts who is much more aggressive and positive. We can all pontificate on why it is what it is and I think it is a combination of maturity/development/toxic environment/ management of expectation/learning the game/finally understanding. But the reality is Watts is now a dangerous player. With improvement he could become a significant player and with his elite attributes and in a good team may approach the player we were expecting.

The other intangible with Watts is how loyal he's been to the club, how much he loves playing with his team mates and how much the other players enjoy having him around. Without performance that is meaningless but it's valuable if he commands a spot in the team based on output.

How good do you think he'll be? That's the question. It's easy to critique his journey to date but so much more difficult to predict the destination. He may ultimately be a bust but he could also be elite. Not many have that as a possibility.

this is watts been happening at our club & is a strong trend for decades..... WE are ALL mates at Melbourne !

............. this IS the issue, where we stop winning games, but have a great social life/footy enjoyment, for the 'players', great career opportunities !!!

but watts missing in this equation ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

........... the supporters; they miss out on these 'enjoyments', these mates are having, & those career opp's as well.

this is a massive part of our past & recurring, 'cultural history' .

Edited by dee-luded

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I think you've interpreted "to rate him incredibly highly" too strictly. I don't think many if anybody would rate his output highly to date, in that respect he has been exceptionally disappointing when measured against his draft position. But many can see his qualities and rate them highly. He has elite qualities. Ball handling, speed, vision, decision making and execution. These attributes have been negated because of his unwillingness to go and get the ball and understand the defensive side of football and without those qualities you are of little if any value.

I held on to "Watts hope" until about the middle of May where I finally declared my hope/optimism broken. I should have done this earlier because from about mid June we've seen a Watts who is much more aggressive and positive. We can all pontificate on why it is what it is and I think it is a combination of maturity/development/toxic environment/ management of expectation/learning the game/finally understanding. But the reality is Watts is now a dangerous player. With improvement he could become a significant player and with his elite attributes and in a good team may approach the player we were expecting.

The other intangible with Watts is how loyal he's been to the club, how much he loves playing with his team mates and how much the other players enjoy having him around. Without performance that is meaningless but it's valuable if he commands a spot in the team based on output.

How good do you think he'll be? That's the question. It's easy to critique his journey to date but so much more difficult to predict the destination. He may ultimately be a bust but he could also be elite. Not many have that as a possibility.

I agree. But in his 7th year, a year in which he decided to drop himself, it's fair to say he's been an underwhelming top 10 pick in the extreme.

That said, I see what everyone else sees and his last 8 weeks have been beyond what I expected. I have a firm grasp of reality when it comes to Watts and can only hope he's now set a bench mark for the rest of his career.

I see him in the roaming Goddard "trouble shooting" role.

Edited by ProDee
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I agree. But in his 7th year, a year in which he decided to drop himself, it's fair to say he's been an underwhelming top 10 pick in the extreme.

That said, I see what everyone else sees and his last 8 weeks has been beyond what I expected. I have a firm grasp of reality when it comes to Watts and can only hope he's now set a bench mark for the rest of his career.

I see him in the roaming Goddard "trouble shooting" role.

.... his last 2 months is what I hoped for, in his second or third season off footy, so by the time he was 21yrs.

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.... his last 2 months is what I hoped for, in his second or third season off footy, so by the time he was 21yrs.

I saw more of a Nick Riewoldt type. I saw someone who could impact the scoreboard. I was wrong.

Btw, there's been a comment or two about how long it can take for players to come on, which is true, but don't forget that the best key forwards the game has ever seen have virtually all been either very very good by the age of 21/22 or out and out stars.

People will mention Hawkins as the example of a slow burn, but they are few and far between and he's a rung below the greats anyway.

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