And just when you thought we couldn't get any worse...

[daisycutter 29,625]

We had 52 midfield turnovers today!

Says it all, really

we also had 61 clangers today, yes, 61

god help us because no-one else will

[Ethan Tremblay 30,878]

we also had 61 clangers today, yes, 61

god help us because no-one else will

How can Gary Ablett Snr help us?

[Beats 190]

We have improved under Roos, yet somehow with more talent, better recruiting, and a young core with far more potential, we allow sides that were once below us control the tempo and beat us.

St Kilda is ahead of us after one year of a rebuild with a 2nd-year coach.

We've improved on the Neeld years, but have we improved on the Bailey years?

Bailey - 22 wins, 59 losses, 2 draws (26.5% win rate from 84 games)

Roos - 9 wins, 29 losses, 0 draws (23.7% win rate from 38 games)

Would much rather watch the style of footy Bailey had us playing as well.

There's nothing to suggest that losing those players would make them worse. The Bulldogs have lost plenty of experience and have managed to lock themselves into the 8.

Their young players play confidently, with attack, poise and urgency. Ours do as well, to a degree, but our experienced players provide nothing in the way of genuine leadership and empowerment.

When those blokes leave the Saints, they'll have helped establish a core.

Any side that loses a player of the calibre of Nick Riewoldt is automatically worse. He's in the top handful of players over the last 10 years. It's not like losing a superstar will allow them to play better as a team either, because he's their focal point in attack (unlike losing a star midfielder). Agreed that losing the other 4 players won't phase them too much, of the 4 listed Montagna is the only one who still has a regular influence on games.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Riewoldt's amazing, used to find him annoying but my admiration for him has grown in the past few years just due to how hard he works no matter what. Who'd think he's battling through an injury when he plays like the fittest guy on the ground.

[What 18,810]

We've improved on the Neeld years, but have we improved on the Bailey years?

Bailey - 22 wins, 59 losses, 2 draws (26.5% win rate from 84 games)

Roos - 9 wins, 29 losses, 0 draws (23.7% win rate from 38 games)

Would much rather watch the style of footy Bailey had us playing as well.

In 2010 under Bailey when we won 8.5 games we also had a percentage of 95%

We were so much more competitive then

[Je Roos Salem 661]

In 2010 under Bailey when we won 8.5 games we also had a percentage of 95%

We were so much more competitive then

One main difference is we used to have a home ground advantage then. Now when we play like crap at the G no one's surprised

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

Watching the game yesterday and many others I had the distinct impression many of the midfield turnovers were caused by a lack of options up forward. Roos seems to prefer allowing the opposition to have a spare man in defence (what the football specialist commentators in the media infuriatingly insist on calling a +1). Whether that's caused by Roos wanting an extra in our own defence or by the opposition choosing to create the extra I can't discern, but the net effect is an inability for our players running through the midfield to find an open forward. Rather than take a chance, they then fiddle about waiting for an opening and eventually lose the ball due to poor skills and an inability to absorb pressure.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We've improved on the Neeld years, but have we improved on the Bailey years?

Bailey - 22 wins, 59 losses, 2 draws (26.5% win rate from 84 games)

Roos - 9 wins, 29 losses, 0 draws (23.7% win rate from 38 games)

Would much rather watch the style of footy Bailey had us playing as well.

Any side that loses a player of the calibre of Nick Riewoldt is automatically worse. He's in the top handful of players over the last 10 years. It's not like losing a superstar will allow them to play better as a team either, because he's their focal point in attack (unlike losing a star midfielder). Agreed that losing the other 4 players won't phase them too much, of the 4 listed Montagna is the only one who still has a regular influence on games.

you cannot equate it to stats, at this point.

we are building & teaching individuals right now, & when they reach a point where they are starting to grow in confidence, will the team momentum start to pickup. & then the team stats will finally start to spike up. but that turning point is a gradual process to arrive at.

we need to get the talent in, & the blend of talent types in, to form the right physical & mental structure of personnel.

[jnrmac 20,109]

We had 52 midfield turnovers today!

Says it all, really

Wow

[jnrmac 20,109]

we also had 61 clangers today, yes, 61

god help us because no-one else will

A turnover is a clanger I think....

[chook fowler 19,459]

we also had 61 clangers today, yes, 61

god help us because no-one else will

He's shown a distinct lack of interest in the past. Might be time to try the dark side.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,078]

Watching the game yesterday and many others I had the distinct impression many of the midfield turnovers were caused by a lack of options up forward. Roos seems to prefer allowing the opposition to have a spare man in defence (what the football specialist commentators in the media infuriatingly insist on calling a +1). Whether that's caused by Roos wanting an extra in our own defence or by the opposition choosing to create the extra I can't discern, but the net effect is an inability for our players running through the midfield to find an open forward. Rather than take a chance, they then fiddle about waiting for an opening and eventually lose the ball due to poor skills and an inability to absorb pressure.

The specialist commentators also universally condemn Roos for refusing to send an extra man forward to cover this "+1," and in at least one case credit this with costing us the game. Roos' match-day coaching has been badly shown up this year and his inability to cope with such a simple and common tactic is making him look very poor.

[Nascent 9,219]

2013 first three rounds

Vs Port 54 - 133 --> 79 point loss

Vs Essendrug 36 - 184 --> 148 point loss

Vs Eagles 83 - 177 --> 94 point loss

We also had 3 more losses that year over 90 points.

I get people are upset by a 6 goal loss but lets keep things in perspective shall we?

[old dee 23,801]

2013 first three rounds

Vs Port 54 - 133 --> 79 point loss

Vs Essendrug 36 - 184 --> 148 point loss

Vs Eagles 83 - 177 --> 94 point loss

We also had 3 more losses that year over 90 points.

I get people are upset by a 6 goal loss but lets keep things in perspective shall we?

So you want me to judge our improvement based not on games we now win but on the size of the loss?

Sounds like a perfect solution for the MFC.

In 2016 if we lose every game by one point we could say we are a mile ahead of 2015.

[Nascent 9,219]

So you want me to judge our improvement based not on games we now win but on the size of the loss?

Sounds like a perfect solution for the MFC.

In 2016 if we lose every game by one point we could say we are a mile ahead of 2015.

Can you seriously tell me that we are not a more competitive and better team now than in 2013?

FYI we have also won 3 more games from that year with 6 games in hand if you want to look at it from a straight win/loss perspective?

Some people get so angry after a single loss that they forget the progress we have made, despite how long it is taking.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nascent

[old dee 23,801]

Can you seriously tell me that we are not a more competitive and better team now than in 2013?

FYI we have also won 3 more games from that year with 6 games in hand if you want to look at it from a straight win/loss perspective?

Some people get so angry after a single loss that they forget the progress we have made, despite how long it is taking.

I was not trying to Nascent.

The point I was making was that judging ones success by the size of the loss seems like a desperate way of showing improvement. As for getting upset over a single loss it is now three weeks in a row against sides in our bottom third of the ladder that annoys. Two of the sides we never looked like beating and the other one we fell in kicking 1 goal 6 in the last half of the game.

We consistanly show a serious lack of skill and though it ain't new it was there last year and is still there this year in spite of our " improved List"

Players have poor games for whatever reason but when they show it week after week for most games over a two year period you have to wonder if that is not their best.

Edited July 27, 2015 by old dee

[RalphiusMaximus 6,078]

Can you seriously tell me that we are not a more competitive and better team now than in 2013?

FYI we have also won 3 more games from that year with 6 games in hand if you want to look at it from a straight win/loss perspective?

Some people get so angry after a single loss that they forget the progress we have made, despite how long it is taking.

The issue is that while we are tackling and defending more and perhaps better, we are still seeing the same fundamental problems that we saw back then. They still panic and overuse the hand pass. They still refuse to block or shepherd for teammates. They still see the high long bomb as the preferred method of entering the forward 50. They still utterly fail to see, much less kick to, the player leading into space. They still give their direct opponents too much space and as a result concede long chains of uncontested marks. Quite frankly, I would be happy to see bigger losses if I were also seeing these issues rectified. Of course, if these issues were rectified we wouldn't be losing so often, so that sentence is more or less meaningless in context.

[Biffen 12,944]

the progress is slow,but there.

we are so ridiculously stupid as a highly paid cohesive unit that i cannot stand to watch it.

i hate a missed tackle more than anything in the world-it's putrid.

Dunn is too slow/fat -needs a spell.

put McDonald on Cloke-all game.

put jordie on Swan,all game.

[old dee 23,801]

the progress is slow,but there.

we are so ridiculously stupid as a highly paid cohesive unit that i cannot stand to watch it.

i hate a missed tackle more than anything in the world-it's putrid.

Dunn is too slow/fat -needs a spell.

put McDonald on Cloke-all game.

put jordie on Swan,all game.

You are safe on one of those Biff

Cloke will be on our side of the fence next wekend.

[Nascent 9,219]

I was not trying to Nascent.

The point I was making was that judging ones success by the size of the loss seems like a desperate way of showing improvement. As for getting upset over a single loss it is now three weeks in a row against sides in our bottom third of the ladder that annoys. Two of the sides we never looked like beating and the other one we fell in kicking 1 goal 6 in the last half of the game.

We consistanly show a serious lack of skill and though it ain't new it was there last year and is still there this year in spite of our " improved List"

Players have poor games for whatever reason but when they show it week after week for most games over a two year period you have to wonder if that is not their best.

The issue is that while we are tackling and defending more and perhaps better, we are still seeing the same fundamental problems that we saw back then. They still panic and overuse the hand pass. They still refuse to block or shepherd for teammates. They still see the high long bomb as the preferred method of entering the forward 50. They still utterly fail to see, much less kick to, the player leading into space. They still give their direct opponents too much space and as a result concede long chains of uncontested marks. Quite frankly, I would be happy to see bigger losses if I were also seeing these issues rectified. Of course, if these issues were rectified we wouldn't be losing so often, so that sentence is more or less meaningless in context.

Can't disagree much with what you both have said. We were a mile off on Sunday and was one of the most painful games I have witnessed live, some 100 point losses included.

My issue is more with over dramatic posts/attitudes that crop up that sporadically proclaiming that we are in the worst state that we have ever been. I highlighted 2013 as surprisingly some here have appeared to have forgotten that horrid year (probably a wise thing for their mental well being). Sadly until we have a solid 22 players that can execute their skills and make correct decisions, we are going to experience a few more frustrating losses.

[praha 11,240]

2013 first three rounds

Vs Port 54 - 133 --> 79 point loss

Vs Essendrug 36 - 184 --> 148 point loss

Vs Eagles 83 - 177 --> 94 point loss

We also had 3 more losses that year over 90 points.

I get people are upset by a 6 goal loss but lets keep things in perspective shall we?

Dear God.

I get that perspective in this case is that we're not as bad.

But we're still horrible.

Like Roos, you're trying to polish a turd by referring to a dog's breakfast from three years ago. Anything in comparison to the Neeld years is going to look like Miranda Kerr in a thong.

But "perspective" also allows us to compare to similarly placed teams who, without anywhere near as much access to the talent on the field and in the coaching department, and without anywhere near the amount of league support, have leapfrogged us.

It is diabolical that with all of the talent and resources available to this squad, that they still play like a bunch of spoilt little brats.

Does anyone else get the feeling that Nathan Jones hates the club now? Dunn? Garland? Grimes was the only long-term Melbourne player who genuinely seemed to want to play for the jumper on Sunday. He wasn't great but he gave a god damn try for the jumper.

This group plays like they hate one another, and like they hate coming to work.

Then, once a month, maybe after a bonding session or a trip to Spearmint Rhino, they decide to turn it on and play like a finals side. Seven days later, they turn back into what comes out of my body after a night on the [censored].

Edited July 27, 2015 by praha

[Moonshadow 17,676]

the progress is slow,but there.

we are so ridiculously stupid as a highly paid cohesive unit that i cannot stand to watch it.

i hate a missed tackle more than anything in the world-it's putrid.

Dunn is too slow/fat -needs a spell.

put McDonald on Cloke-all game.

put jordie on Swan,all game.

FWIW you may be minding Cloke this week Biff. Sitting next to him, that is, beer in hand

Edit. Didn't see your similar OD.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Moonshadow

[DemonOX 8,791]

In 2010 under Bailey when we won 8.5 games we also had a percentage of 95%

We were so much more competitive then

U gotta wonder if we had a stable admin at the time Bailey was coaching, what could have been.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

Dear God.

I get that perspective in this case is that we're not as bad.

But we're still horrible.

Like Roos, you're trying to polish a turd by referring to a dog's breakfast from three years ago. Anything in comparison to the Neeld years is going to look like Miranda Kerr in a thong.

But "perspective" also allows us to compare to similarly placed teams who, without anywhere near as much access to the talent on the field and in the coaching department, and without anywhere near the amount of league support, have leapfrogged us.

It is diabolical that with all of the talent and resources available to this squad, that they still play like a bunch of spoilt little brats.

Does anyone else get the feeling that Nathan Jones hates the club now? Dunn? Garland? Grimes was the only long-term Melbourne player who genuinely seemed to want to play for the jumper on Sunday. He wasn't great but he gave a god damn try for the jumper.

This group plays like they hate one another, and like they hate coming to work.

Then, once a month, maybe after a bonding session or a trip to Spearmint Rhino, they decide to turn it on and play like a finals side. Seven days later, they turn back into what comes out of my body after a night on the [censored].

No, no and no. And I don't know how you could get that "feeling" from watching that game. Disappointed with a poor performance? Sure, but "hate the club"? I don't think so.

[Giles 181]

2013 first three rounds

Vs Port 54 - 133 --> 79 point loss

Vs Essendrug 36 - 184 --> 148 point loss

Vs Eagles 83 - 177 --> 94 point loss

We also had 3 more losses that year over 90 points.

I get people are upset by a 6 goal loss but lets keep things in perspective shall we?

Those first 3 losses in 2013 were against clubs who were flying. Port made the finals and Essendon would've done if not for their governance penalty.

Since the bye this year, we got smashed by effectively Essendon's VFL side and comprehensively beaten by St Kilda who is mediocre at best. Our win against Brisbane was hardly inspiring.