POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 10

[jane02 3,398]

Watching fat Eddie walk Danners over to the Collingwood fans at the end of the game was hard to watch, didnt like it one bit

That got up my nose as well. Get lost Eddie - it's not always about you.

[grazman 6,570]

What I noticed is that when we made errors was that it was it was amazingly obvious that it was going to happen, as there were no options upfield, and the close options were closed up, forcing us in to either a very difficult kick or a handball to someone stationary. I thought we lost today not due to poor skills but because we don't instinctively mobilise for attack when we cause turnovers.

I thought we were an outside chance of beating the Pies, because I don't think their list is that good (though Pendles, Sidebottom, Elliott and Cloke are all A graders and Swan can still be handy).... but they are extremely well drilled and disciplined and we are not. Reference Paul Roos post match comments. He even went into extraordinary detail to emphasise the job of getting some of these blokes to understand some pretty basic footy structures. As Grand New Flag pointed out Jimmy T was very poor in positioning himself yesterday.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,044]

It strikes me as almost funny that supposedly Roos isnt a fan of the 'spray" That apparently is seen as non helpful in this century

And yet the single theme that runs through his pressers is that the players arent listening. Well Id be giving them the spray of sprays at 3/4 time if they werent listening. Id leave them in no doubt what so ever as to what they are supposed to be doing and what the consequences are if they dont.

I dont quite understand how one of the great 'communicators' of modern footy cant get his ideas and instructions understood .

I know ...a little last century perhaps.... btw ...when did we win our last Premiership ??

I wouldn't be so sure about the lack of a spray. I seem to recall someone on here saying that Roos gave them an almighty verbal belting after the first loss to Port last year. I can imagine that on occasion there is more than a little blue language, going on the body language at quarter-time and three-quarter time sometimes. However, I guess that is the point --- doing it on occasion, rather than habitually.

I think Chunk perhaps put it best on Footy Classified, when he said it is not so much about listening, but putting what they are told into practice, ie habits and behaviours, and making sure that these are consistent with what the coaches have said, especially when things are going pear-shaped. CW seemed to object, saying that Jones had thrived under Neeld, but his reply indicated that Roos had wanted him to change anyway, seemingly to play a better role for the team rather than starring individually. The issue seems to be sticking consistently to the new behaviours for every minute of every game.

[Pennant St Dee 11,357]

Fitzy's mistake was embarrassing but FFS players kick the ball through all the time and they never pay that rule. The rule has lost its purpose

What is embarrassing is you do not understand what Fitzy did was a throw, every day of the week. Kicking is allowed in footy and if you are under pressure you can put the ball through by any legal means available

[jackaub 1,402]

Ill make easy for ya farmer boy

2014 round 10 melbourne 3 and 7

2015 round 10 melbourne 3 and 7

atm our improvement in terms that matter...i.e the ladder....zilch

2014 round 22 melbourne 4 and 18

2015 round 22 melbourne ? and ?

[No10 323]

It strikes me as almost funny that supposedly Roos isnt a fan of the 'spray" That apparently is seen as non helpful in this century

And yet the single theme that runs through his pressers is that the players arent listening. Well Id be giving them the spray of sprays at 3/4 time if they werent listening. Id leave them in no doubt what so ever as to what they are supposed to be doing and what the consequences are if they dont.

I dont quite understand how one of the great 'communicators' of modern footy cant get his ideas and instructions understood .

I know ...a little last century perhaps.... btw ...when did we win our last Premiership ??

BB I'm with you on the spray. If the forward line isn't bringing the ball to ground then why not pump that into them at 3/4 time?

I love what Roos has done, but he does coach like a guy that has zero pressure on him.

The team is better, the results need to be better.

[jnrmac 19,203]

What is embarrassing is you do not understand what Fitzy did was a throw, every day of the week. Kicking is allowed in footy and if you are under pressure you can put the ball through by any legal means available

It was pretty technical. If the ball stayed on the ground it was not free but because he lifted it slightly ...boom...free kick. The ump could just have easily let it slide.

How many golas have we given up in the last 4 weeks on the gial line because our defenders can't kill the pill when it is dribbling around the goal line. I'd suggest at least 5.

FMD its frustrating.

[old dee 22,946]

It was pretty technical. If the ball stayed on the ground it was not free but because he lifted it slightly ...boom...free kick. The ump could just have easily let it slide.

How many golas have we given up in the last 4 weeks on the gial line because our defenders can't kill the pill when it is dribbling around the goal line. I'd suggest at least 5.

FMD its frustrating.

PSD is correct it was a throw and a free kick.

It was there and the ump saw it.

[Fork 'em 6,557]

PSD is correct it was a throw and a free kick.

It was there and the ump saw it.

Happy he saw the Swan throw aswell.

[hardtack 10,127]

PSD is correct it was a throw and a free kick.

It was there and the ump saw it.

Yes, and it wasn't a slight lift... it was a full on double handed scooping of the ball.

[Coq au vin 754]

First quarter Pies were still in last week's winning mindset. They kicked away.

[Coq au vin 754]

Collingwood are artificially high on the ladder because of the easier draw they have had. Wait till they play Hawks, Freo and Swans.

[Pennant St Dee 11,357]

Was at the game yesterday with my Collingwood son and after red eye flight back to Perth I thought we both came away relatively happy with yesterdays result. and before you start Wyl no I don't have lower standards than you. Lot to like from yesterdays game and nothing in yesterdays result which can't be ironed out as confidence and experience in the game grows.

I could almost guarantee Roosy didn't tell the players to just bomb the ball into our forward 50m and clearly if it was to be a tactic then the forwards would have been told to attack the contest with ferocity or a forward would have been told to peel off and man up on Oxley. So it's one or the other which wasn't carried out by the players.

The boys will become more composed and back themselves to take the game on and back themselves to start hitting targets inside 50 rather than bombing it in. We will commit a lot less turnovers and sure even yesterday if we halved the turnovers we win the game. Lot to like about our younger players who stood up as others have said the likes of M Jones, Bail, Mckenzie, Terlich etc are being replaced by better players and I can finally see we are heading somewhere as a team. Without dwelling on the past this is where we should have been around 2012 but we made such a hash of the rebuild we have had to start again. Really struggling to think of a player we have brought in under the new FD who hasn't shown potential or made some impact.

Brayshaw - just a footballer and a competitive beast, has the desire to run hard put his body on the line and just makes smart decisions

Viney - as above without the bigger size but a born leader just going to continue to develop

TMac - absolute stinker early and got pants by a player who when he is on is unstoppable, came into it a bit more when moved but whilst his confidence was down he never shirked the issue, Seen enough of him to know he will make it

Hogan - though he was good early whenever the ball went in and gave strong contest, would have liked to see him give away a free kick in the second half to make Oxley second guess himself. Still has really good work rate but very little impact. No worries with him he is a club changer and we just have to keep him above everything else

Vandenburg - love him so strong at the clearances and thought it effected us when he went down

Toumpas - good day still had a few skill errors but learning to understand he belongs and did a fantastic job on Sidebottom

Fitzy - made an absolute howler and those calling for his head are amplifying that, got the better of White through the day and IMO moving forward wont be best 22 but is certainly going to provide decent depth for our defenders

Gawn - destroyed Grundy at the tap outs and was vital at us taking control at the clearances and through the middle. Needs to work on that tank and impose himself around the ground, Grundy was far more influential around the ground, but the blueprint is there and plenty to work with

Watts - was good yesterday by just being honest, didn't like the dropped mark which resulted in an end to end goal but play like that every week Jack that is all we ask

After the 2010 cleanout we are now getting the right balance between older and younger players on the list and our players have the right environment to develop as other clubs have had.

[beelzebub 22,268]

one thing ( well there are many ....lol ) but.....that caught my thinking was the thing where we we were kicking it into the 50 looking ( seemingly ) for Howe. I would have thought Hogan a better pack target

Was this a tactic,. was this a 'miss-heard' instruction...or was it just odd....or just my imagination ?

[Pennant St Dee 11,357]

Happy he saw the Swan throw aswell.

Never ever blame the umpires for defeat IMO every thing evens itself out over a game, they make mistakes like players but we don't know what they see, we can guess but we do not know for sure.

I saw the Sinclair goal for the out on the full off Tmac, which wasn't a free, I saw us get the free kick inside 50 for Jesse White taking out Howe's legs IMO not a free, I saw us get a free for Hogan's legs being out when one of the Pies players was actually pushed into the contest again IMO not a free thought Dunn was also stiff with the holding free against Cloke right at the death in the 3rd that really killed us but you have to be balanced.

We gave them 13 goals from turnovers and there were also times when our players made decisions to try and mark both inside our defensive 50 and also between the arcs when the smarter thing to do was to knock the ball out and start again. Our players will develop this instinct as they become more experienced. We as a team just have to worry about what we can control umpires are always going to make mistakes both ways and we have no control over that, sort out the turnovers and continually do the 1%ers and start again and we will give away a hell of a lot more goals

[Choko 493]

I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it again, but Jack Watts makes himself difficult to defend. That dropped mark in the goal square was a total killer. And it wasn't just a poor skill error from someone senior enough to do better... where was the desperation? Worst play of the day.

[beelzebub 22,268]

I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it again, but Jack Watts makes himself difficult to defend. That dropped mark in the goal square was a total killer. And it wasn't just a poor skill error from someone senior enough to do better... where was the desperation? Worst play of the day.

Choko I am definitely near to last on any list of Watts apologists. He has for a long whiles frustrated the hell out of me but he has played a few decent games this year and if that can become the norm, all well and good. Watching at the time it seemed beyond lamentable that he didnt make EVERY effort to mark it. He , like a lot of players these days seems reluctant to mark on the chest. ( back in the day we were admonished for not hugging the shlt out of the sherrin ) Now this is not to excuse him, ( for he fluffed it ) but on watching the highlights it is noticeable that as that ball comes in and he tries to track it just as it would be at arms reach the ball comes into brighter sun. Is it possible he got momentarily blinded and just instinctively grabbed for it ? Who knows..possibly unlikley but hes normally a good mark

[old dee 22,946]

Choko I am definitely near to last on any list of Watts apologists. He has for a long whiles frustrated the hell out of me but he has played a few decent games this year and if that can become the norm, all well and good. Watching at the time it seemed beyond lamentable that he didnt make EVERY effort to mark it. He , like a lot of players these days seems reluctant to mark on the chest. ( back in the day we were admonished for not hugging the shlt out of the sherrin ) Now this is not to excuse him, ( for he fluffed it ) but on watching the highlights it is noticeable that as that ball comes in and he tries to track it just as it would be at arms reach the ball comes into brighter sun. Is it possible he got momentarily blinded and just instinctively grabbed for it ? Who knows..possibly unlikley but hes normally a good mark

Right in front of me bb

It was coming over his head.

At the time I thought he lost sight of it.

Unlike others I thought it was lost sight rather than lack of effort and gods knows I have not been big fan

Like the Dogs game I thought he was very good yesterday

[What 18,810]

Thought Watts did pretty well, he won some important footy in close for a change

There was a couple of the usual lazy efforts but for the most part he worked hard and Ive never seen him on the bottom of so many packs

Time will tell if he can stamp those lazy patches out and be a consistent player

[FireOath 290]

That mark that Watts had dropped wasn't an easy grab. He was at full stretch with someone right on his hammer.

I just remembered that lovely choice and kick from Brayshaw into the 50 and the grab above Pendles head. Was a perfect decision.

[pitmaster 3,064]

I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it again, but Jack Watts makes himself difficult to defend. That dropped mark in the goal square was a total killer. And it wasn't just a poor skill error from someone senior enough to do better... where was the desperation? Worst play of the day.

Somewhat harsh considering we had a several defensive errors that just dished the ball up to the opposition...Dunn (usually reliable) and Viney (rusty on the comeback trail) both responsible for goals the other way, but then they are not everyday whipping boys so their blues don't qualify for consideration in Worst Play of the Day.

Of course that belongs to Watts even if we can't bag him for failing to tackle any more, and as for slipping through packs like mercury, well we'll forget that too.

Yep, Watts gets the Worst Play of the Day award. But then, why even post it. It was always the case. Right?

[Fork 'em 6,557]

Choko I am definitely near to last on any list of Watts apologists. He has for a long whiles frustrated the hell out of me but he has played a few decent games this year and if that can become the norm, all well and good. Watching at the time it seemed beyond lamentable that he didnt make EVERY effort to mark it. He , like a lot of players these days seems reluctant to mark on the chest. ( back in the day we were admonished for not hugging the shlt out of the sherrin ) Now this is not to excuse him, ( for he fluffed it ) but on watching the highlights it is noticeable that as that ball comes in and he tries to track it just as it would be at arms reach the ball comes into brighter sun. Is it possible he got momentarily blinded and just instinctively grabbed for it ? Who knows..possibly unlikley but hes normally a good mark

C'mon man.

Marking is not a Watts strong point.

More likely apprehensive about putting both hands out exposing himself to excessive risk.

What's the use of being on several hundred thousand bucks a year if you might get hurt?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Fork 'em

[drdrake 3,045]

That mark that Watts had dropped wasn't an easy grab. He was at full stretch with someone right on his hammer.

I just remembered that lovely choice and kick from Brayshaw into the 50 and the grab above Pendles head. Was a perfect decision.

Agree with this, it wasnt hard but it wasn't a regulation Chest mark, to me it looked like he focused on the body work and the ball carried a bit further than he thought. Trying to judge a kick like that with a bit of swirling wind is hard. He should of grabbed it but it wasn't just a simple chest mark Edited June 9, 2015 by drdrake

[leucopogon 1,472]

Obviously comprehension is not your strong point. I will simplify it for you. As I stated quite clearly M Jones was a bad choice for the Sub. As I stated we needed someone capable of taking the game on. Comprehend. Now repeat after me "I will read a post 5 times before I comment on it ensuring that I understand what the people are talking about".

I was commenting on the line in your post in bold mate: "At best M Jones is a negative run with player". I took exception to that, hence the reason why I highlighted it in bold to emphasise that it was that part of your post that I was commenting on. But oh well, I guess I better go write 100 lines on the blackboard for you.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Thought Watts did pretty well, he won some important footy in close for a change

There was a couple of the usual lazy efforts but for the most part he worked hard and Ive never seen him on the bottom of so many packs

Time will tell if he can stamp those lazy patches out and be a consistent player

His lazy attempt at a mark in the first quarter was horrendous, his willingness to take the game on afterwards was excellent.