THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[beelzebub 23,390]

Lets just wait and see was IS announced. Not speculative journalism even if Masters.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Listened to Hird speaking on SEN a little whille ago. Still laying all the blame on the players for last Sunday. Went on saying this is a performace based industry and if players don't perform they will be dropped and delisted. No mention of his own performance though.

Probably had to clear that up - the players may have been thinking if they didn't perform they would get a holiday in France

[sue 9,195]

ASADA is keen to overturn the AFL tribunal decision because of the precedent it sets but accepts a token sanction of the players would be fitting, considering the duress they have suffered.

says who I wonder? I wouldn't open the champagne just yet if I was at EFC.

[daisycutter 29,892]

- ASADA accepts a token sanction to players if found guilty (quite appropriate in my book)

well this is not an asada case. they opted not to appeal

this is a wada case

(or am i splitting hairs, assuming the report is accurate?)

[Jara 1,153]

Interesting isn't it.

If the players know what it is, you'd expect them to tow the party line and try to get off, which aligns with their current behaviour.

If the players don't know, you'd think they'd be up in arms crying "wtf did you inject me with?!?".

Suggests to me that they know exactly what it is but don't want to stir the pot as they know it's banned.

Excellent post.

If they were really injected with something and didn't know what it was, they'd be taking legal action against anybody - the club, Dank himself - who could tell them. It's always puzzled me that nobody has sued the arse off Dank. If somebody gave me an injection and refused to tell me what it was, I'd be off to Maurice Blackburn in a flash.

Like Choke, Ted (and the rest of us, Isuppose) the only logical conclusion is that they do know, but want to keep it secret because it's banned.

[beelzebub 23,390]

well this is not an asada case. they opted not to appeal

this is a wada case

(or am i splitting hairs, assuming the report is accurate?)

Goes to the accuracy if the report eh

[Lucifers Hero 40,524]

My understanding is that if the players are found guilty determining sanctions comes back to the AFL Tribunal where ASADA rather than WADA make a submission on penalties, so ASADA is the relevant party in this regard...I may be wrong tho.

[daisycutter 29,892]

My understanding is that if the players are found guilty determining sanctions comes back to the AFL Tribunal where ASADA rather than WADA make a submission on penalties, so ASADA is the relevant party in this regard...I may be wrong tho.

even if so, asada would be beholden to wada and would need to get their agreeance, or be it to their peril

[Monocology 1,109]

The arrogance of one man (& his faithful), blind faith of a 'club legend' & the consequences. Always been my most despised club but gee I never thought I'd pitty the kids there.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Cant imagine there'd be too many blokes who'd willingly play for them at the moment

[daisycutter 29,892]

if cas case doesn't start till oct doubt it will complete before trading time and draft

essendung will be hamstrung no end. who'd want to trade players with them. they'll have to rely heavily on their draft picks unless they want to trade one of their untainted players or high draft picks

more pain for them

and to think they could have settled all this 2 years ago

[SaberFang 7,151]

Cant imagine there'd be too many blokes who'd willingly play for them at the moment

Overheard an amusing response from one young man with the initials J.O'M when asked about the possibility of joining Essendon. The two-word response was priceless.

Suffice to say nobody with self-respect will be heading to that team in a hurry, hence the delisted rejects they're picking up instead.

[CityDee 738]

I too am starting to feel a Little sorry for the bombers cheats.

You would never had dreamt of this scenario in a afl career although they were naive and weak to partake .

The onus on the individual athlete to be ultimately wada compliant has forced the hand of the players to stick tight with the club . That was the wrong way to go and the club should had fallen on its sword. It would have been all over some time ago.

I hope that Dank isn't the only official manager/coach leader who cops a life ban.

[Dees2014 2,377]

This might be a reality check to those who have been predicting armageddon for the EFC: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/court-of-arbitration-for-sport-case-against-essendon-to-be-held-in-sydney-20150709-gi90c1

My take is that if the AFL Tribunal verdict is overturned ASADA/WADA will be satisfied.

Summary:

- likely to be held in Sydney in mid Oct

- ASADA accepts a token sanction to players if found guilty (quite appropriate in my book)

- Michael Beloff QC has been appointed as Chairman of the CAS panel...a cursory glance at his background makes him eminently suited to the role. Some extracts:

• Education "A wise and brilliant lawyer, who is an outstanding advocate."
• European law Absolutely excellent." "His advocacy is always a masterclass in how things should be done."

BB and Dees2014 you may need to prepare for a lot less than you hoped for. Hird may go down if players found guilty but that probably is as bad as it gets. Or Hird may just go down for incompetence if the bombers don't lift their game!

I would be quite happy with a guilty verdict, and relatively light sentences for the players, as long as it is followed by new infractions notices for Hird and his key coaching staff, Administration, and possibly some of the board. This should then be followed by new hearings and the key players (Hird and his key assistants eg Thompson and Reid ) rubbed out for life. In my view the players were never the main game here, although it is imperative they are found guilty and given some sort of penalty to recognise the code was extensively broken and they were clearly in breach of it. Maybe a one year ban for the players, backdated to the date of the issue of the infraction notices might be appropriate although I recognise I have previously advocated the full two years, but those responsible for the program should get the harshest of sentences.

Hopefully, the other thing to come out of this hearing should be final clarification as to exactly what was given to the players. It is only then that they will be able to move on and get the appropriate medical treatments to ensure there are no long term detrimental health outcomes. If they were in fact given banned substances then I think the legal and financial ramifications for Essendon will be very truly dire. Not only I would suggest all or most of the players would sue them (and possibly the AFL), but I then cannot see how Worksafe could avoid an investigation into the program (even with the Premier barracking from the sidelines for this not to happen) with all the financial and legal ramifications for Essendon and its board. I would have thought there would also be a case to look at a breach of directors duties.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Dees2014

[Lucifers Hero 40,524]

I would be quite happy with a guilty verdict, and relatively light sentences for the players, as long as it is followed by new infractions notices for Hird and his key coaching staff, Administration, and possibly some of the board. This should then be followed by new hearings and the key players (Hird and his key assistants eg Thompson and Reid ) rubbed out for life. In my view the players were never the main game here, although it is imperative they are found guilty and given some sort of penalty to recognise the code was extensively broken and they were clearly in breach of it. Those responsible for the program though should get the harshest of sentences.

Hopefully, the other thing to come out of this hearing should be final clarification as to exactly what was given to the players. It is only then that they will be able to move on and get the appropriate medical treatments to ensure there are no long term detrimental health outcomes. If they were in fact given banned substances then I think the legal and financial ramifications for Essendon will be very truly dire. Not only I would suggest all or most of the players would sue them (and possibly the AFL), but I then cannot see how Worksafe could avoid an investigation into the program (even with the Premier barracking from the sidelines for this not to happen) with all the financial and legal ramifications for Essendon and its board. I would have thought there would also be a case to look at a breach of directors duties.

Your commentary thru this saga has been interesting but this post has a number of assumptions and a decent dose of wishful thinking rather than realistic/probable outcomes. Just saying...

I would agree that the players were never the main game. But neither were Hird and Co otherwise they would have already received infraction notices. Can't see ASADA/WADA going after them for TB4.

The real target was Dank (in addition to the integrity of the anti-doping rules/process).

I don't have the same faith in Worksafe as you do but time will tell.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[ManDee 7,320]

I thought you only commented when you were responding to someone?

Chris some people combine hypocrisy with lying. Trolls like him just talk shyt, occasionally wrapped in chocolate.

[daisycutter 29,892]

Your commentary thru this saga has been interesting but this post has a number of assumptions and a decent dose of wishful thinking rather than realistic/probable outcomes. Just saying...

I would agree that the players were never the main game. But neither were Hird and Co otherwise they would have already received infraction notices. Can't see ASADA/WADA going after them for TB4.

The real target was Dank (in addition to the integrity of the anti-doping rules/process).

I don't have the same faith in Worksafe as you do but time will tell.

the "real target" for who? afl? asada? acc? gov? wada?

[Lucifers Hero 40,524]

the "real target" for who? afl? asada? acc? gov? wada?

My observation on events:

AFL: targeted Dank on enough of ASADA 'doping' charges to ban him for life but (rightly or wrongly) not enough to implicate players. (AFL targeted and sanctioned Hird/EFC on Governance)

ASADA/WADA: targeted Dank as demonstrated by the number of infraction notices (35?) and appeal items (20?) to CAS (and none of either to Hird/EFC).

ACC: Target is drug traffickers but no idea how this relates to Dank (Charter seems to be their guy)

Gov: The EFC Worksafe 'inquiry' has a narrow scope on process (not in the administering of the long list of substances listed in the AFL charges sheet to Hird/EFC). That is not to say it could not be widened. They seem to have no interest in targeting Dank.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Your commentary thru this saga has been interesting but this post has a number of assumptions and a decent dose of wishful thinking rather than realistic/probable outcomes. Just saying...

I would agree that the players were never the main game. But neither were Hird and Co otherwise they would have already received infraction notices. Can't see ASADA/WADA going after them for TB4.

The real target was Dank (in addition to the integrity of the anti-doping rules/process).

I don't have the same faith in Worksafe as you do but time will tell.

We shall see i suppose. I think the next steps after the hearing depend entirely on what happens in the hearing. I am expecting Essendon and the AFL to be severly criticsed by CAS and Hird and his mob to be singled out for particularly harsh rebuke. If this amounts to blame as it might do, then ASADA has every reason to act against them, particularly given Mcdevitt's previous strong criticisms of them. ASADA has never ruled this out. Indeed, based on a number of precedents offshore, it is often the case that the ASADA/WADA's of this world do not act against coaches until after the athletes have been dealt with. I suggest the same will happen in this instance.

As far as WorkSafe is concerned, all i have said here is that a finding against Essendon which includes the identification of the substances taken by Essendon players, particularly if they were banned substances, would make it very difficult to resist taking action. They would be made to look very hypocritical in the eyes of their market, particularly by those companies which have been subjected to Worksafe intervention which too often is handled in a very high handed and bureaucratic way, with a very literal interpretation of the law.

It is about time they applied their anal retentive minds to this whole Essendon fiasco.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Dees2014

[daisycutter 29,892]

My observation on events:

AFL: targeted Dank on enough of ASADA 'doping' charges to ban him for life but (rightly or wrongly) not enough to implicate players. (AFL targeted and sanctioned Hird/EFC on Governance)

ASADA/WADA: targeted Dank as demonstrated by the number of infraction notices (35?) and appeal items (20?) to CAS (and none of either to Hird/EFC).

ACC: Target is drug traffickers but no idea how this relates to Dank (Charter seems to be their guy)

Gov: The EFC Worksafe 'inquiry' has a narrow scope on process (not in the administering of the long list of substances listed in the AFL charges sheet to Hird/EFC). That is not to say it could not be widened. They seem to have no interest in targeting Dank.

acc: dank is part of the chain for drug importation, if not the actual importer

gov: would like a political coup (read scapegoat) without damaging the popular (read votes) sport too much - hence dank

asada/wada: here i disagree. think they want both. they want the players because that is the whole core of their approach on peds - personal responsibility, and they need to enforce that or it all falls apart

afl: agree. more interested in self preservation/income than enforcing wada code

[Chris 2,892]

acc: dank is part of the chain for drug importation, if not the actual importer

gov: would like a political coup (read scapegoat) without damaging the popular (read votes) sport too much - hence dank

asada/wada: here i disagree. think they want both. they want the players because that is the whole core of their approach on peds - personal responsibility, and they need to enforce that or it all falls apart

afl: agree. more interested in self preservation/income than enforcing wada code

AFL: looking to open a rug emporium when the whole thing passes over.

[ManDee 7,320]

AFL: looking to open a rug emporium when the whole thing passes over.

Fakari?

Edited July 10, 2015 by ManDee

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,022]

if cas case doesn't start till oct doubt it will complete before trading time and draft

essendung will be hamstrung no end. who'd want to trade players with them. they'll have to rely heavily on their draft picks unless they want to trade one of their untainted players or high draft picks

more pain for them

and to think they could have settled all this 2 years ago

Is that really so, though? Could WADA have appealed any settlement the EFC/players struck with ASADA? If so, we don't actually know whether it would have been over or not.

[daisycutter 29,892]

Is that really so, though? Could WADA have appealed any settlement the EFC/players struck with ASADA? If so, we don't actually know whether it would have been over or not.

well yes, that was a possibility

and it depends on what the actual penalty(s) would have been (not necessarily what media were saying)

but, if you take the nfl decision as a guide it is likely it could have been wrapped up with min player penalties

they would definitely have been better off than what has transpired imo

[biggestred 5,242]

Its all about the players.

The afl in 2012 was an uneven playing field due to the fact the players were pumped full of god knows what.

They are responsible for what goes into their bodies

If they didnt know they should have

If they did know, well, they are a disgrace.

Either way they cheated.

Since then they have done all they can to fight it

They deserve maximum bans if found guilty.