POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 6

[Coq au vin 754]

it looked like sydney put the cue in the rack.

No it didn't.

[Dwight Schrute 16,803]

Feel the game plan is being unfairly criticised, our blokes weren't running anywhere near hard enough to create options and Sydney were making life really tough for the ball carrier,

We broke even for Clarence's but McVeigh spent the whole day racking up uncontested touches and mopping up our entries and double teaming hogan and was never really made accountable which i thought was a worry

[DeeZee 6,753]

What annoys me us that Roos constantly puts Dunn on the oppositions second most dangerous forward no matter how tall he is.

We really lack another tall key defender, cost us four goals tonight, and we will always suffer because of Dunns lack of height,although he try's hard, sometimes he is just too short.

You watch, when we play Geelong for example, TMac will get Hawkins and Dunn will get Clarke who will easily out Mark him.

Edited May 9, 2015 by DeeZee

[CBDees 3,162]

What annoys me us that Roos constantly puts Dunn on the oppositions second most dangerous forward no matter how tall he is.

We really lack another tall key defender, cost us four goals tonight, and we will always suffer because of Dunns lack of height,although he try's hard, sometimes he is just too short.

You watch, when we play Geelong for example, TMac will get Hawkins and Dunn will get Clarke who will easily out Mark him.

My thoughts exactly. If there was a week to look at Fitzy, this would have been it!

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Watts come on, was able to immediately get involved, and the flow of the game changed. I understand he was coming off a poor 3 weeks, his confidence shot, but we simply can't afford not to have him in the team. I understand how frustrating he is, however he is immensely creative even when he is out of form. He is underrated on this sight. I am happy to see he has seemed to shake the mental demons and hope he can learn from this form slump to become more consistent.

[CBDees 3,162]

Watts come on, was able to immediately get involved, and the flow of the game changed. I understand he was coming off a poor 3 weeks, his confidence shot, but we simply can't afford not to have him in the team. I understand how frustrating he is, however he is immensely creative even when he is out of form. He is underrated on this sight. I am happy to see he has seemed to shake the mental demons and hope he can learn from this form slump to become more consistent.

Exactly my point in post #147. Stretch should have been the sub (for JKH) as he didn't get any possessions after halftime.

Edited May 9, 2015 by CBDees

[dazzledavey36 48,844]

Does anyone think Cam Pedersen should have played in defence on Tippet? I think Pedo plays his best position there and Dunn got absolutely monsterd by Kurt. I would give pedo a go in defence, he also took some good contested marks down back too.

Been a massive critic of Watts but when he came on and played on the wing i thought he look quite classy with the ball. I wouldn't drop just yet now after seeing him in the midfield id give him a crack for the next 3 weeks and see how he goes.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

How can Hawthorn try and pinch a kid from us who hasn't even played a game?

[grazman 6,480]

I agree with the majority of this; I disagree about the Jones/Spencer thing. Spencer gave a handball to jones who ran himself into trouble. Spencer ran into position to get the handball; Jones saw him and turned away from him into more trouble. I'll need to see it in replay to be sure.

Our mids are below standard. Everything else flows from that. They didn't work hard enough to give the backs an option so many times. Just poor workrate. Then, when they get the ball they fumble, mis-hit kicks etc.

Spot on Tim. One of the problems is that we just don't take the first option. In that particular instance I think the Captain thought better of giving it back to Jake because the instruction for Jake is to handpass the ball rather than kick. (only kicked it once last night) and I think Jones looked for a better option. For players to give the first option they have to trust their teammates and I'm still not seeing a lot of trust at Melbourne. The other half of the equation is that for teammates to trust you, players have a responsibility to put themselves in good positions before calling for the ball. (Jake was actually in a good position to get the ball back- I think Jones was worried what he'd do with it) If you are surrounded by four Swans then you need to get on your bike and start moving before calling for the pill.

I'm a little bemused by the criticism of big Jake. I thought he played a reasonable game and was not disgraced by any stretch of the imagination. He had 10 possessions (100% DE), 30 HO and 4 clearances against Pyke who had 11, 39 and 3. But he's not competing against Pyke for a spot in the Melbourne team he's competing against Jamar whose last two matches were statistically similar (11, 29 & 2 -Rich and 9, 21 and 4 Freo). I think where Jake shades Jamar is his willingness for repeat efforts and appetite for the contest. There will be calls for Gawn to be brought in, but probably by those who haven't seen him ruck or those clutching at straws that any changes we make will be the difference between winning and losing. As you say Tim, it's about the midfield and we need to go to market and buy more cattle before we can be competitive.

Edited May 9, 2015 by grazman

[JV7 2,339]

I thought the days of efforts like last night were over. We were insipid in that first half. I don't care what anyone says about the Swans being a top 4 side and were just a young developing side. No matter how good the opposition is you can still put in effort. Almost every time we had a mark or free kick every melbourne player bar Hogan was just standing there flat footed, not moving, not providing an option, not creating space, forcing the player with the ball to kick long to a contest where Sydney's spare man was time and time again. It's like they all think someone else is going to do it.

Chris Dawes, I've said it hundreds of times before can he play in front FFS. He is constantly playing from behind, one stage last night the ball was on the wing and he needed to be the next kick in the chain, yet his standing 5m behind Grundy doing nothing. Lead at the kicker you idiot.

Jeremy Howe, has been terrible this year except round 1. Playing like Scully in 2011, Sylvia in 2013, Frawely 2014, just has no interest whatsoever

Spencer, never again. He cost us the first 2 goals, he can't even get the ball through for a behind when his on the last line of defence, in the ruck he doesn't even time his leap right.. Was embarrassed by an average AFL ruckmen in Pyke.

JKH- have a spell at Casey, has gone backwards this year.. Maybe case of 2nd year blues

Roos- I think he has a bit to answer for. The selection of Mckenzie last week, dropping Jamar this week, subbing Pedersen last night I thought was a strange move, he was actually presenting and making a contest and dropping back inside defensive 50 and giving ghe defence a chop out, something Spencer doesn't understand. Dropping Grimes after one game whilst consistently giving Howe a free ride time and time again..

[ILLDieADemon 804]

It's still a little upsetting when you see teams from the bottom like Bulldogs and GWS beat the last years grand finalists and we are still getting smashed by them.

[grazman 6,480]

Watts come on, was able to immediately get involved, and the flow of the game changed. I understand he was coming off a poor 3 weeks, his confidence shot, but we simply can't afford not to have him in the team. I understand how frustrating he is, however he is immensely creative even when he is out of form. He is underrated on this sight. I am happy to see he has seemed to shake the mental demons and hope he can learn from this form slump to become more consistent.

I was actually happy that little ferret Shaw got stuck into him and Jack seemed to respond by telling himself that he wasn't going to take that kinda crap from a toe rag piece of filth. Footy is a contact sport, if you don't relish crashing and bashing, then you at least have to accept and expect it. I hope Jack starts on the field next week.

[grazman 6,480]

It's still a little upsetting when you see teams from the bottom like Bulldogs and GWS beat the last years grand finalists and we are still getting smashed by them.

It's immaterial what other sides are doing. There can be only one premier a year and if you aren't them, then you should be doing everything you can to be. Sometimes winning masks all sorts of deficiencies. It's great for their supporters that they are getting these results but I don't give a flying rats toss personally. Maybe they will be premiers in the next few years, but its not a given that they will be, just look at the hole GC have fallen into (i'm sure they'll dig themselves out). I think we are on the right track, but we've always been starting from well back in the field. We are getting better, but there is still a large body of work still to be done.

Edited May 9, 2015 by grazman

[jumbo returns 6,488]

How can Hawthorn try and pinch a kid from us who hasn't even played a game?

The caller said that 'they were really into him...'

3AW.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,090]

Not too many positives last night but one thing that stands out to me is the clearances. We matched them on the night for both centre and stoppage clearnces which is a pretty good effort against one of the best in the business. Problem is what we do with it once we win the clearances, we still turn it over far too easily and our skill level is bog ordinary at times. This will improve in the coming years once Petracca, ANB get games, Salem gets thrown in and Brayshaw continues his impressive start to his career.

Great to beat them in the 2 nd half but i think the slog they had against the Dogs last week had a bit to do with that, but it is good to see we did not drop our heads which would have happened in the past few years.

End of the day, pre match id have taken a 6 goal loss against the Bloods its about what i was expecting anyway.

Cross underated by many on here, we might need him to play for 2 more years before our mids are good enough to push him out.

[Lucifers Hero 37,090]

I was actually happy that little ferret Shaw got stuck into him and Jack seemed to respond by telling himself that he wasn't going to take that kinda crap from a toe rag piece of filth. Footy is a contact sport, if you don't relish crashing and bashing, then you at least have to accept and expect it. I hope Jack starts on the field next week.

I agree! Jack standing his ground and verbally giving it back to Shaw (and I think McVeigh) was a little highlight. Not seen it from him before...could be a turning point for him to become more aggressive. A bit of sledge is a good start!

[Gator 16,893]

I love what Roos has done for this club and there's no doubt we needed to learn a defensive brand of footy, but we lack any semblance of flair or ability to take the game on.

I'm not suggesting we should emulate Beveridge, who plays with no tag, but perhaps we could find a better balance. I feel that we're too concerned by the opposition. We 'man hunt', while they 'ball hunt'. This always puts us on the back foot. It's as though we spend the bulk of our time trying to get the ball back from the opposition, which is at odds with quarters and some halves in the preseason.

Sometimes you have to give players their head. Not at the expense of quality team defence, but we don't seem to be able to find that happy medium.

It's either a lack of talent, or lack of direction. Or a bit of both.

[P-man 13,221]

It's still a little upsetting when you see teams from the bottom like Bulldogs and GWS beat the last years grand finalists and we are still getting smashed by them.

In the wet. Wet weather can bring just about any two teams into a genuine contest. Bulldogs are going well but they're not going as well as the hype around them last week suggested.

GWS are starting to look the real deal. So fast and skillful. Simply rolled over the Hawks in the last quarter. Scary insight into a couple of years.

Hopefully at training this week there is a major focus on transitioning out of defence, drawing out the opposition, and working hard to provide options for a teammate. Offensively we were pretty awful which I think was due to putting all energies into shutting down their bigger bodied midfield. If we still can't get our two way running game going, then let's see a more offensively minded team next week ala North in the last game of 2014 and Gold Coast in Round 1. If they get belted so be it.

Being able to hit a teammate from 20 metres will certainly help.

[Axis of Bob 10,229]

I'm a little bemused by the criticism of big Jake. I thought he played a reasonable game and was not disgraced by any stretch of the imagination. He had 10 possessions (100% DE), 30 HO and 4 clearances against Pyke who had 11, 39 and 3. But he's not competing against Pyke for a spot in the Melbourne team he's competing against Jamar whose last two matches were statistically similar (11, 29 & 2 -Rich and 9, 21 and 4 Freo). I think where Jake shades Jamar is his willingness for repeat efforts and appetite for the contest. There will be calls for Gawn to be brought in, but probably by those who haven't seen him ruck or those clutching at straws that any changes we make will be the difference between winning and losing. As you say Tim, it's about the midfield and we need to go to market and buy more cattle before we can be competitive.

Agreed. I think Spencer's first half was ordinary and Pyke got right on top of him. But in the second half he got on top of him and, I thought, beat him.

[jackaub 1,402]

There was only about 25000 there tonight and im tipping a fair few of those who are posting on here were watching from the comfort of their couches. An issue for another day but poor turnout by YOU.

Being at the ground we worked hard to pressure and harrass Sydney but where we kept getting hammered was not pinning the ball or the player in the tackles and contested situations. Far too many times we got tackled and the ball was either held up or turned over and then when the swans players were tackled they either broke them or got the ball free and out to a player who moved it on quickly. Quite simply, we were completely outmuscled around the contest tonight. There is no quick fix for that as it takes time to build our young midfielders up and we simply dont have the same amoutn of tall strong midfield beasts to compete with both Freo and Sydney.

The Swans were far better at their transition from defence to attack and held their structure better so that they always had an option to kick too on the break. And they hit targets.

Too often our forwards were sucked too far up the ground leaving no marking targets at half forward or loose swans there. This is where those watching on TV will never get an understanding of what is going on. Multiple times the demons were moving out of half back and there was literally nobody to kick the ball too. That's what then causes hesitation and indecision and that is when they then turn the ball over or stuff it up.

Picket Fence please give it a rest. You are so Toumpas focussed you cannot see past your nose. He was so far from our worst tonight its not funny. He ran hard, competed hard and when there was an option available he took it. But when your only target is garlett amongst three swans defenders i don't blame him for hesitating or trying the impossible.

People say Watts had no impact, again, he was the sub so pretty hard to influence the game from there. When he came on the game was over but he still had a crack. Again not the problem.

At the ground Pyke absolutely destroyed Spencer. Spencer offers absolutely nothing. I have always said he competes hard but that does not cut it at AFL level when you are a liability otheriwse. A horrid passage of play occurred when he gave a handball off to jonesy running through half back but then failed to follow up and support by laying the block/shepherd and it resulted in jonesy getting smashed. He has absolutely no football nouse nor skills.

Howe was poor tonight. Dunn had a bad night. Dawes was sucked too far up the ground and even still didn't offer much. But quite simply- we were hammered by a bigger, stronger, faster, fitter and more skilled team. Anyone with common sense should be able to see that. We competed hard- drawing even or thereabouts in many of the contested categories but you cannot change phyisics and these simple facts.

Next week will be more of the same. It is the weeks after that where we might have some hope again.

This has been a problem for years but we keep selecting small skniny kids with no core strength

We dont stick tackles and we cant break tackles

Mission has been a complete failure!

[watchtheeyes 1,210]

I love what Roos has done for this club and there's no doubt we needed to learn a defensive brand of footy, but we lack any semblance of flair or ability to take the game on.

I'm not suggesting we should emulate Beveridge, who plays with no tag, but perhaps we could find a better balance. I feel that we're too concerned by the opposition. We 'man hunt', while they 'ball hunt'. This always puts us on the back foot. It's as though we spend the bulk of our time trying to get the ball back from the opposition, which is at odds with quarters and some halves in the preseason.

Sometimes you have to give players their head. Not at the expense of quality team defence, but we don't seem to be able to find that happy medium.

It's either a lack of talent, or lack of direction. Or a bit of both.

We all knew this was going to be a process. Before Roos came along we were getting beaten by 100s, he needed to teach us accountability and defense. He's got one more year and Goodwin takes over, so that perfect meshing of styles will happen by design. When roos came in he would've set out a timeline, I don't reckon we'd be too far from that right now.

[dazzledavey36 48,844]

This has been a problem for years but we keep selecting small skniny kids with no core strength

We dont stick tackles and we cant break tackles

Mission has been a complete failure!

Mission a complete failure??

Yet only 3 weeks ago we were applauding his effort to keep our injury list to a minimum.

What a stupid post.

[jackaub 1,402]

Woeful performance, game was done in the first 20 minutes again.

Jones & Tyson have both looked hampered by something all year.

We look woefully slow, can't remember anyone breaking the lines except for Lumumba. Toumpas showed intent but his lack of pace doesn't help us at all, I'd rather Matt Jones.

Howe was M.I.A.

I miss the 90's when we used to run off half back with an exciting chain of handballs and overlap.

We were timid and weak. Tackles getting broken everywhere.

But worst of all, the skills. Oh god the skills. What hope have we got when we kick like that.

I was amazed at the number of times we held the kick up in the first half. Either we are frightened of making mistakes or there are no targets or we have severe mental problems. So the person with the ball waits until time on is called then butchers the ball. Looked like under 12 c football to me.What is wrong with this teams mental state.

[jackaub 1,402]

Mission a complete failure??

Yet only 3 weeks ago we were applauding his effort to keep our injury list to a minimum.

What a stupid post.

DD wasn't talking about injuries was talking about core strength. Who was appluding on here OH you were. Read the post before commenting princess.

Edited May 9, 2015 by jackaub

[JV7 2,339]

I'm a little bemused by the criticism of big Jake. I thought he played a reasonable game and was not disgraced by any stretch of the imagination. He had 10 possessions (100% DE), 30 HO and 4 clearances against Pyke who had 11, 39 and 3. But he's not competing against Pyke for a spot in the Melbourne team he's competing against Jamar whose last two matches were statistically similar (11, 29 & 2 -Rich and 9, 21 and 4 Freo). I think where Jake shades Jamar is his willingness for repeat efforts and appetite for the contest. There will be calls for Gawn to be brought in, but probably by those who haven't seen him ruck or those clutching at straws that any changes we make will be the difference between winning and losing. As you say Tim, it's about the midfield and we need to go to market and buy more cattle before we can be competitive.

Firstly it's easy to get 100% DE when you dish a handball 2m to someone behind you. Like I've stated he coughed up the first two goals, firstly through his lack of football awareness and leaving Pyke to go to Salems man when Salem had him covered and 2nd goal he was dropped back inside defensive 50 and waited until the ball was kicked to Toumpas 1 on 1 with Tippett and made a poor excuse for a spoil. His gotta react quicker and drop into that space straight away, sure Dunn or whoever was Tippetts opponent was should have been there but I saw Pedersen late in the 1st quarter take 3 crucial contested marks inside defensive 50, helping out the backs. Like i said in another post, he can't even punch the ball through for a behind when it's on the goal line. 3 or 4 times he went up, missed it and let the ball out the back

.

Edited May 9, 2015 by JV7