Training - Friday 27th February, 2015

[SaberFang 7,151]

His antics were embarrassing and he's let the team down by being unavailable against Gold Coast.

When's the last time Nathan Jones antics got him suspended?

[Moonshadow 17,678]

No one can ever question his workrate. But his marking is atrocious for such a big key forward and he doesn't kick enough goals for me. We did recruit him to become a key forward that kicks goals right..? Im sure off field he has been very valuable but on field he has been a disappointment for me and by the sounds of the match simulations over the last two weeks he has been fairly ordinary..

Don't underestimate Pedersen's work rate and attack at the ball, it is right up there with Dawes. His Richmond game was one of the best games he has ever played and atleast he is a decent mark of the ball. I have him ahead of Dawes.

Fitzy is still an untapped talent. His Brisbane game when he kicked 4 goals was quality as a forward. He is very quick and agile and I thought he is a perfect example of someone that has improved his marking. Just needs a good run at it.

All very good points Dazzle and mostly I agree. I just think that Dawes will benefit immensely from having Hogan alongside (and vice versa) as well as from having better delivery inside 50. More so than Pedo and Fitzy IMO. I'm a big fan of Pedo and Fitzy and would love them to have a great 2015, but I think Dawes has been the go-to key forward for the last couple of years without much support and he's now physically cherry ripe to have a big year. However, and it's a big however, his marking is his one main weakness. If he can get this right or at least take 3-4 more marks per game, he'll kick more goals. Time will tell.

[chook fowler 19,735]

I also believe there is little between Pederson and Dawes. Cam has really made progress over past 12 months and is more versatile than Dawes. it will be interesting to see which way the selectors go.

[Ted Lasso 19,568]

I'd still have dawes ahead of pedo and fitzy, he will work a lot better with Hogan than he did solo

[Biffen 12,949]

Dawes is a two grabber but as an enforcer we have no other goer apart from Jetta,Spencer or maybe Jones so Dawes will play.

He gets to many contests but is often prone to fumbles.

Him and Harry are the only guys in the squad with a premiership medal in the drawer .

Let's not start dropping him just because he hit Nev.

Although I hope it was an accident.

Or i'll smash him.

[jnrmac 20,306]

I also believe there is little between [Pedersen] and Dawes. Cam has really made progress over past 12 months and is more versatile than Dawes. it will be interesting to see which way the selectors go.

Those of you here who bag Dawes should watch his work rate and fwd pressure. It's phenomenal.

He was almost a sole fwd last year with no assistance. Yes he doesn't have clean hands but he is vital to our fwd set up and those that don't think so are dreaming. Will be great to watch when he has a team around him this year.

[old dee 24,028]

Those of you here who bag Dawes should watch his work rate and fwd pressure. It's phenomenal.

He was almost a sole fwd last year with no assistance. Yes he doesn't have clean hands but he is vital to our fwd set up and those that don't think so are dreaming. Will be great to watch when he has a team around him this year.

Are we discussing old iron hands Jnr

For all the good work you describe he has not yet contributor much on the score board here's hoping this year is better.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Those of you here who bag Dawes should watch his work rate and fwd pressure. It's phenomenal.

He was almost a sole fwd last year with no assistance. Yes he doesn't have clean hands but he is vital to our fwd set up and those that don't think so are dreaming. Will be great to watch when he has a team around him this year.

Fair call jnr, and with the addition of Hogan I think he will have a better year not being the focal point of the forward line. Add Garlett at his feet as well and the pressure to be 'the man' in the front half is not as great as it once was.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

Dawes really didn't have much of a chance last year. He had to chase kicks halfway up the ground and when we did go forward, delivery was usually deplorable. Add to this the fact that he was swamped by defenders and it is clear why he often became frustrated. This year he at least has some classy company in the forward line and hopefully, more and improved opportunities.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Great report djr I am on the same boat as you in Chris Dawes. He is not in my best 22 and I think he should be made to earn his spot after his suspension.

I would have Pedersen and Fitzpatrick ahead of him at this stage.

Roos will pick him every single week as he should

How many experienced key forwards with serious runs on the board and leadership responsibilities do we have

That's right - one: C.Dawes

[tappysquads 618]

Roos will pick him every single week as he should

How many experienced key forwards with serious runs on the board and leadership responsibilities do we have

That's right - one: C.Dawes

He's a key fwd who can't mark the ball.... Or kick goals.....It's sad that that's best 22 but at the moment it is. Yeh he puts pressure on, cause he doesn't win the ball very often. Maybe he should play back up ruck.....nope he can't do that..... Backline maybe, where it's acceptable to just be defensive...... Nah he doesn't jump in the marking contest

[dazzledavey36 55,991]

Roos will pick him every single week as he should

How many experienced key forwards with serious runs on the board and leadership responsibilities do we have

That's right - one: C.Dawes

Serious runs on the board...??

The reality is Patty Mcartin not slipping down to us probably saved his career by another year or two.

he needs a massive 2015 and now with Garlett Hogan and Gawn to give him a hand up forward full time there is no reason why he cant kick 30-40 goals this year.. if he is cable of it.

[Wunders 397]

He's a key fwd who can't mark the ball.... Or kick goals.....It's sad that that's best 22 but at the moment it is. Yeh he puts pressure on, cause he doesn't win the ball very often. Maybe he should play back up ruck.....nope he can't do that..... Backline maybe, where it's acceptable to just be defensive...... Nah he doesn't jump in the marking contest

DAWES - I think that he almost never losses the ball though. I would say 80% of the time he got the ball over the boundary, got rid of one opponent and made a contest with the other or brought the ball to ground and created a ball up. I hope his goal numbers increase this year. If Gawn plays every game, surely gawn would have to get the best defender (pritty much due to his height), if dawes and hogan then get the 2nd/third defender each that will help them so much (especially if they dont drag them to the same contests). P.s. funny how he never jumps.. but maybe loosing all that weight pre season means he will be able to get off the ground

In regards to the other forwards i think they all have questionable hands except for hogan:

FITZY - I think he has the second worst hands in the team, and brings about 40% of the pressure that dawes does and retains the ball about 10% as much (which is a pity because he seems to do a bit more in the VFL, but at AFL in the contest just seems to be lacking (a little like one effort watts).

Pedo -I think he really improved with his spread (which was fantastic, getting open and creating an option we sorely needed), but i think a lot of people are forgetting that if he is put in our goals and has to lead hard at the ball carrier he is renowned for dropping the ball (he is great in defense as the lose man who can time his run nicely and take a lot of intercept marks or as mentioned on the spread where he runs clear, but 1v1 im very confident in him not marking the ball unfortunantly). E.g. that fantastic goal against Richmond i think where he led to the forward pocket ball slips through his hands, falls over and then kicks a miraculous goal (when he should have marked the ball to start with).

GAWN - Seems to also drop it too much, has so much height, but never seems to jump in the forward line, is always wrestling with an opponent and when he wrestles he seems to bend/hunch over reducing his height and from what i see inhibiting his ability to mark (compare him vs sandilands when wrestling). But he still has so much potential and i think we all want to see him use his height more. Also when he crouches over to engage the wrestle its harder to pay a free agaisnt his opponent for holding on as they both are engaged.. would be interested to see him use his hips more like dawes to keep his opponent out if possible.

HOGAN - he is like a shinning light compared to every other tall forward we have, he is a true key forward and is more of a complete package with the best attributes of the others combined into one player... well more like better attributes in almost every area (havent really seen his pressure work yet to judge).

Hopefully this year some things just click with them and we see the potential come through

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

He's a key fwd who can't mark the ball.... Or kick goals.....It's sad that that's best 22 but at the moment it is. Yeh he puts pressure on, cause he doesn't win the ball very often. Maybe he should play back up ruck.....nope he can't do that..... Backline maybe, where it's acceptable to just be defensive...... Nah he doesn't jump in the marking contest

People have forgotten that in his first 5-6 games back from injury he was really important. He fell away along with most of the side in the second half of the year.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Serious runs on the board...??

The reality is Patty Mcartin not slipping down to us probably saved his career by another year or two.

he needs a massive 2015 and now with Garlett Hogan and Gawn to give him a hand up forward full time there is no reason why he cant kick 30-40 goals this year.. if he is cable of it.

Being selected in 3 grand finals as a key forward qualifies as serious runs on the board. There's no getting around it.

Yes, he is capable of it, so why would you suggest he be left out of the side? He is certainly a safer bet than Pedo or Fitzy (not that the three are mutually exclusive anyway)

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

DAWES - I think that he almost never losses the ball though. I would say 80% of the time he got the ball over the boundary, got rid of one opponent and made a contest with the other or brought the ball to ground and created a ball up. I hope his goal numbers increase this year. If Gawn plays every game, surely gawn would have to get the best defender (pritty much due to his height), if dawes and hogan then get the 2nd/third defender each that will help them so much (especially if they dont drag them to the same contests). P.s. funny how he never jumps.. but maybe loosing all that weight pre season means he will be able to get off the ground

In regards to the other forwards i think they all have questionable hands except for hogan:

FITZY - I think he has the second worst hands in the team, and brings about 40% of the pressure that dawes does and retains the ball about 10% as much (which is a pity because he seems to do a bit more in the VFL, but at AFL in the contest just seems to be lacking (a little like one effort watts).

Pedo -I think he really improved with his spread (which was fantastic, getting open and creating an option we sorely needed), but i think a lot of people are forgetting that if he is put in our goals and has to lead hard at the ball carrier he is renowned for dropping the ball (he is great in defense as the lose man who can time his run nicely and take a lot of intercept marks or as mentioned on the spread where he runs clear, but 1v1 im very confident in him not marking the ball unfortunantly). E.g. that fantastic goal against Richmond i think where he led to the forward pocket ball slips through his hands, falls over and then kicks a miraculous goal (when he should have marked the ball to start with).

GAWN - Seems to also drop it too much, has so much height, but never seems to jump in the forward line, is always wrestling with an opponent and when he wrestles he seems to bend/hunch over reducing his height and from what i see inhibiting his ability to mark (compare him vs sandilands when wrestling). But he still has so much potential and i think we all want to see him use his height more. Also when he crouches over to engage the wrestle its harder to pay a free agaisnt his opponent for holding on as they both are engaged.. would be interested to see him use his hips more like dawes to keep his opponent out if possible.

HOGAN - he is like a shinning light compared to every other tall forward we have, he is a true key forward and is more of a complete package with the best attributes of the others combined into one player... well more like better attributes in almost every area (havent really seen his pressure work yet to judge).

Hopefully this year some things just click with them and we see the potential come through

There's also the Russian, who is likely to spend a bit of time down there too. I don't mind this group when complimented with Garlett/Kent/JKH and possibly Watts and/or Howe, I think we have a good chance of getting an effective setup... it is certainly a huge improvement on what we had a couple of years ago.

[dazzledavey36 55,991]

Being selected in 3 grand finals as a key forward qualifies as serious runs on the board. There's no getting around it.

Yes, he is capable of it, so why would you suggest he be left out of the side? He is certainly a safer bet than Pedo or Fitzy (not that the three are mutually exclusive anyway)

Basically already explained why he should be left out. I would put pedo as a much safer bet then Dawes. Atleast with Pedo he is a far better mark then Dawes and generally better skilled aswell.

If Pedo Hogan and Gawn all fire come round one and kick a couple of goals between them then i cant see why Dawes wouldn't have to earn his spot through the 2s

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Basically already explained why he should be left out. I would put pedo as a much safer bet then Dawes. Atleast with Pedo he is a far better mark then Dawes and generally better skilled aswell.

If Pedo Hogan and Gawn all fire come round one and kick a couple of goals between them then i cant see why Dawes wouldn't have to earn his spot through the 2s

I agree, if Dawes regains his spot from somebody who has performed their role really well, it will send the wrong message to the rest of the team, it is his own fault he is sitting out Rd 1

[Kumamoto_Ken 1,531]

People have forgotten that in his first 5-6 games back from injury he was really important. He fell away along with most of the side in the second half of the year.

Agreed. Had a massive influence in the win over rAdelaide, and according to Footywire had 8 tackles in each of the wins against the Tiggers and the Bombres.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Agreed. Had a massive influence in the win over rAdelaide, and according to Footywire had 8 tackles in each of the wins against the Tiggers and the Bombres.

His first game back we beat Carlton, he had 8 touches for 2 goals, but just about every time he got involved assisted in a goal - including winning a contest at HFF and spearing it to Watts on the lead at FF. Hopefully Hogan will be on the end of some of that type of stuff. if CD can play 20 games like that it will be very valuable to the side.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Some people have no idea about the value of CD to our side.

Goals and marks alone are not the reason Chris Dawes was selected in both Grand finals at Collingwood.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Some people have no idea about the value of CD to our side.

Goals and marks is not the reason Chris Dawes is a two time premiership player.

He only won one premiership, but I agree he adds value to the team. He would add a lot more value if he could hold his marks however.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

If the midfield can deliver 50 plus inside 50's per game and at least 50% of those are targeted to some degree surely our forward coach can conjure up a forward structure and system that delivers a potential winning score against the low and middling sides at least.

As has been said if Dawes can get to multiple contests and bring the ball to ground even with his iron hands, then we now have Garlett and JKH at his feet. Throw in Hogan playing a role as a big bodied target constantly on the move and taking marks and then you have cameos by Pedo, Watts and high flying Howe (who should be advantaged by the new no blocking rule interpretation but don't count on it). And throw in Kent and Vince up forward at times why can't tjis set up kick 15 goals a match if the midfield is competitive?

I haven't thrown up Fitzy or Gawn in this scenario I need to see them dominating at Casey for a few games this year.

[CBDees 3,167]

If the midfield can deliver 50 plus inside 50's per game and at least 50% of those are targeted to some degree surely our forward coach can conjure up a forward structure and system that delivers a potential winning score against the low and middling sides at least.

As has been said if Dawes can get to multiple contests and bring the ball to ground even with his iron hands, then we now have Garlett and JKH at his feet. Throw in Hogan playing a role as a big bodied target constantly on the move and taking marks and then you have cameos by Pedo, Watts and high flying Howe (who should be advantaged by the new no blocking rule interpretation but don't count on it). And throw in Kent and Vince up forward at times why can't tjis set up kick 15 goals a match if the midfield is competitive?

I haven't thrown up Fitzy or Gawn in this scenario I need to see them dominating at Casey for a few games this year.

And next year there will also be Petracca in the forward mix! Bring it on!

[jnrmac 20,306]

Are we discussing old iron hands Jnr

For all the good work you describe he has not yet contributor much on the score board here's hoping this year is better.

Yep we are. Just like Darren Bennett!

Dawes was never a great goal scorer. His most in one year I think is 30 - his premiership year.

But he is vital to our set up. Competes hard, great fwd pressure, takes a monster defender and has leadership qualities despite the occasional lapse (not sure what happened with Jetta though.....)