Our Ruck Situation

[dazzledavey36 49,395]

I had a chat to the Russian, he has come back completely refreshed and has no left over injury concerns, looks really good at training (have a look at the photos on my Twitter), rucks Jamar, Spencer, Gawn, King, Fitzpatrick, backups Pedersen and if I am not wrong Sam Frost and Watts can ruck as well, so I don't think we will be on the lookout for another one

Watts doesn't ruck mate and Frost was recruited to play FB not become a part time ruckman.

[Rob Mac...... 609]

I agree with the posters who think rucks are important. Thank god Jamar was decent this year. I'd wanted to keep Martin who would have been better, so I'm hoping Max or Spencer come on this year (ditto Fitzy). Peder surprised this year, but I doubt he'll improve.

[Ted Lasso 17,144]

I reckon oscar McDonald could develop into a forward/ruck

[DeeSpencer 23,509]

I reckon oscar McDonald could develop into a forward/ruck

Would be interesting, because Tom was recruited as a key forward/2nd ruck, but when we had a shortage of defenders he went down back at Casey then ended up excelling. I think we'd start Oscar down back but you never know.

[rjay 24,064]

Watts did some ruck time when Craig was coaching, he did ok believe it or not

[McQueen 17,864]

Watts did some ruck time when Craig was coaching, he did ok believe it or not

Not.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-melbourne-demons--jack-watts?year=2013

[Uncle Fester 2,840]

If a ruckman's job is to stop the other ruckman from running amok, it kind of shows you that you want a ruckman that can run amok...right?

Great ruckmen are really important.

Yes, Chook, but they are rare, and usually not worth the effort it takes to find them. Give me a break even ruck and a top midfield. and I'll show you a team worth watching.

It's the same with most big men... rucks, forwards, defenders... they are the icing not the cake.

[ManDee 7,093]

Yes, Chook, but they are rare, and usually not worth the effort it takes to find them. Give me a break even ruck and a top midfield. and I'll show you a team worth watching.

It's the same with most big men... rucks, forwards, defenders... they are the icing not the cake.

Jackie, a break even ruckman has to be as good as the player he is up against.

If you have a dominant ruck you should win.

It is the toughest position to play, and the toughest to negate. Our ruck division is ok but all need improvement. Howe and Watts should go 3rd man up a few times each per game when Pedo is rucking.

It takes a long time to develop a good ruckman which is why many successful sides poach them.

[TRIGON 4,719]

ashdemons22 i quite agree. Was thinking of starting exactly the same thread topic, albeit with the thread title being RUCK ME SENSELESS.

Would like a thread that tracks the contact status of ready-to-go rucks at other clubs who may seek more opportunity elsewhere (Zac Clarke for example - not sure of his contract status).

With a ruck division that breaks even our midfield will start to look very good...get a ruck who can dominate and we're cooking with gas.

Edited November 29, 2014 by I Give a Gawnski

[rjay 24,064]

Not.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-melbourne-demons--jack-watts?year=2013

Not what?

[Macca 16,174]

As you say breaking even is easier said than done...

By the way 'Macca' I would take Cox in that battle, reckon he gives more value around the ground. If you can nullify the taps and get some ball you are at an advantage.

Yep, in his prime Dean Cox was also another very good midfielder who was almost impossible to match-up on ... so, in my scenario Sandliands would need to break even with Cox around the ground but if that happened, both can still be influential.

A better example would be 2 ruckmen who are very proficient at tap-outs but not that great around the ground ... nullifying each other in that situation leads one to possibly believe that neither are 'necessary'

A ball belted forward from the ruck even in today's footy is still a weapon ... it gets the ball moving your way and it's also a team lifter ... there should be more of it. There's nothing wrong with gaining metres for your team ... Lumumba has often been an 80 metre player - looking forward to seeing that happen in our colours.

It makes you appreciate Jeff White looking back ... the enforced circle nullified his game to a certain degree but for a 4/5 year stretch there, he was a dominant player.

[DeeZee 6,856]

I'm still a fan of the Gawn and Fitzy combo.

Fitzy has really good agility and speed for someone his size and Gawn is a good tap ruck an with an excellent mark on him.

Still both very young as the really big blokes take time to develop,but I see plenty of improvement on them both as they mature and plenty of up side.

[McQueen 17,864]

Not what?

Those stats suggest that his 2 games spent rucking delivered a total of 9 hit outs.

That's hardly doing okay...

[Macca 16,174]

Watts did some ruck time when Craig was coaching, he did ok believe it or not

It's gotta be the right match-up for him though ... we'd have to have a situation where our back-up ruckman picked that day is not a pure ruckman (like Pedersen) He's certainly got a good enough leap - it's the rest of it that would be the concern.

There's nowhere to hide when rucking and it could make him realise that physical contact doesn't mean you're going to get hurt ... I'm only suggesting a 4 or 5 minute spell a couple of times a game ... the back-up rucking role can be shared.

Having a 2nd ruck who doesn't have another string to his bow is a liability in today's footy.

[rjay 24,064]

Those stats suggest that his 2 games spent rucking delivered a total of 9 hit outs.

That's hardly doing okay...

Give me the stats against with % win/loss and you might have a point.

He rucked when needed for short periods in those games and did ok. From my memory he won most of what he went for.

My point is he can pinch hit if needed.

[rjay 24,064]

It's gotta be the right match-up for him though ... we'd have to have a situation where our back-up ruckman picked that day is not a pure ruckman (like Pedersen) He's certainly got a good enough leap - it's the rest of it that would be the concern.

There's nowhere to hide when rucking and it could make him realise that physical contact doesn't mean you're going to get hurt ... I'm only suggesting a 4 or 5 minute spell a couple of times a game ... the back-up rucking role can be shared.

Having a 2nd ruck who doesn't have another string to his bow is a liability in today's footy.

That's what he did in a couple of games, he does have the leap and surprising did ok in body to body at boundary contests.

Sharing the role is a good idea if you don't have a gun forward/ruck, Hawthorn do it quite well.

Yep, in his prime Dean Cox was also another very good midfielder who was almost impossible to match-up on ... so, in my scenario Sandliands would need to break even with Cox around the ground but if that happened, both can still be influential.

A better example would be 2 ruckmen who are very proficient at tap-outs but not that great around the ground ... nullifying each other in that situation leads one to possibly believe that neither are 'necessary'

A ball belted forward from the ruck even in today's footy is still a weapon ... it gets the ball moving your way and it's also a team lifter ... there should be more of it. There's nothing wrong with gaining metres for your team ... Lumumba has often been an 80 metre player - looking forward to seeing that happen in our colours.

It makes you appreciate Jeff White looking back ... the enforced circle nullified his game to a certain degree but for a 4/5 year stretch there, he was a dominant player.

Would love us to find a Cox type ruck, I know some think Martin was it and I guess 2015 will prove or disprove that.

That centre circle rule really cost us.

[Macca 16,174]

That's what he did in a couple of games, he does have the leap and surprising did ok in body to body at boundary contests.

Sharing the role is a good idea if you don't have a gun forward/ruck, Hawthorn do it quite well.

Would love us to find a Cox type ruck, I know some think Martin was it and I guess 2015 will prove or disprove that.

That centre circle rule really cost us.

I reckon Roos will go with Jamar and a back-up type who isn't a pure ruckman. The 2nd ruck usually has to play deep forward and neither Gawn or Spencer are strong overhead - nor is Fitzy for that matter ... Gawn and Fitzy don't know how to use their height in marking contests and Spencer doesn't have good hands ... of course, they can all improve and they all need to.

Much will depend on injuries, form & improvement but Pedersen is probably the 2nd ruck for now ... Watts could be tried again and Dawes could do some rucking in the forward line. We're probably going to be taller in the backline so a bit of pinch hitting can be done there as well (depending on match-ups)

Jamar rarely breaks down in a game so the risk isn't that high in not picking a pure 2nd ruck.

[ignition. 1,425]

Does any one else think this is a concern going into 15

Jamar on the wrong side of 30 our starting ruck if all fit agreed?

Gawn On the track fingers crossed he does full preseason and should be pushing for number 1 spot. Still unproven and allot of unknown about him still young in ruck terms.

Then it thins out quickly.

Spencer Okay tap ruck does some crash and bash stuff That's Its.

Then we have Fitz Pedo who can pinch hit and young Maxy King.

Are we one short or Are you guys happy with it?

Rookie spot !

Certainly a valid point.

On the basis Jamar can go the whole season, we should be fine, if not we may have a problem.

Gawn certainly needs to take it up another gear and in saying that he has been progressing nicely for a big man. If Jamar goes down he needs to cement himself and show he can go head to head each and every week against the likes of Goldstein, Mumford, Minson, Naitanui, etc.

Spencer also falls in the same category as Gawn. A lot of people love to give him a grilling due to his numerous flaws in his game, however he has many positive attributes I commend him on. Like Gawn I really hope he too can improve and progress well over the pre-season.

As for the others, I don't see Fitzpatrick as a true ruckman but more of a forward, while King is way off.

For additional backup possibly the club can recruit a more mature aged ruckman (21 - 26) in the Rookie draft, that's if there are any quality ones across the country. We'll soon see.

[Deez 298]

the worry is that jamar wil prob get tired and at his age injury is a concern. Gawn still seems quite fragile, every time I see him pick up speed or take a big leap i wince at the pressure those knees must be under.
Spencer needs a break out - could still prove to be a good player.

Peders is a great utility, Now that he's fit I'm confident he will provide wherever he is placed - He will play most games next season.

Fitzy im not so confident with. I think the only reason he is listed is due to our lack of timber.

I think we will get through the season using jamar, gawn and spencer on some sort of rotation, with peders doing the ruck in the forward line, frost might be able to take throw in in back line.

[Deez 298]

jack n sam frost are the same height however sam is 18 kg heavier! according tho the info i can find. 194 cm and 102 kg. thats a big boy.

[Buffalo 203]

Apparently, the demons have spoken to Sam Baulderstone more than any other club, so don't be surprised if we rookie him next week. A 200 cm 110 kg 24 year old with a bit of form..

[DeeSpencer 23,509]

Apparently, the demons have spoken to Sam Baulderstone more than any other club, so don't be surprised if we rookie him next week. A 200 cm 110 kg 24 year old with a bit of form..

I don't see ruck as a high priority, but if he's best available at least he has good form in the SANFL. Is it true he was something like 140kgs before he got serious about his footy? Mumford like?

[beelzebub 22,373]

I don't see ruck as a high priority, but if he's best available at least he has good form in the SANFL. Is it true he was something like 140kgs before he got serious about his footy? Mumford like?

We just need a servicable unit out there who can do the 'most of " things.

ive got not a lot of faith that Jamar will see out much more usable service but thankyou Russian. Gawny, bless his heart , seems more at home near the sticks than roaming. Doesnit quite fill the bill of a really useful ruckman

Jack F...well... taking his time the lad. He'd want to get a bit of a wiggle on or he'll be a DCM come end of next season imho.

[rpfc 27,646]

Lets strip away a bit of nonsense - Jamar has a year left and his form has just not matched his 2010 I the years since. Gawn is a tremendous talent but can you bank on him? When he plays 1st ruck, he is cooked 15 mins into the 3rd. Spencer is a liability with the ball, which isn't a bad thing, but if you are a one dimensional player; it better be a bloody good dimension...

Fitz is not solid enough an AFL player yet for 2nd ruck, let alone 1st. Pedersen undersized, and King is unfairly mentioned in this argument, he won't be ready until 2017 at the earliest. Watts in the ruck isn't a terrible idea but he is liable to be targeted and cut in half...

Here is a name to help Jamar for 15 minutes a game - Hogan. He isn't foreign to the position and deals well with contact, and might actually appreciate the extra work and freedom.

But, if Baulderstone, or some other ruckman from the state league is out there that can compete with Jamar - pick him up.

Edited November 30, 2014 by rpfc

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Personally I think we're ok for 2015, however for 2016 the ruck and outside run are the two areas I'd mainly be focusing on.

Jamar should be good for this year but it could be his last. We'll also know one way or another where Fitzpatrick stands by the end of 2015, and may have seen enough of King to make a call on him also.

Daniel Gorringe made noise of trying to return to SA during trade period but a deal couldn't get done and he seemed quite upset with both Adelaide & Port over it. He's OOC at the end of 2015, and I'd be targetting him big time, especially given Gold Coast have recruited Peter Wright. We could then also look at recruiting maybe a developing ruck and a mature age state player to set ourselves up for 2016 and beyond with the possability that none of Jamar, Fitzpatrick or King will be on the list by then.

I'm more keen on us targeting a rebounding tall/flanker defender and another key forward in the upcoming rookie draft.