Post match discussion - Round 6

[spirit of norm smith 15,276]

We can applaud the effort of Jones x2, Cross, Viney, Dunn, Dawes etc. Improved on 2013 but I think we have too many passengers. Howe, Watts, Bail, Byrnes are all picking up a pay cheque.

[Deecisive 1,709]

Given the amount of scrutiny from the newspapers, tv, fans, team mates, and the general public I would expect this week if Jack plays to either spur him on or wash him up. After so much criticism and negative press if he cannot get himself to put in, (that does not mean he has to win but he needs to demonstrate desire to win the ball and contest) then nothing is going to inspire him. Dropping him provides him with an easy out by running him around the twos and possibly playing more lazy football because he is playing with casey. He can probably pick up enough touches to get selected again in the seniors but it does not mean that he has changed his approach to the game. He needs to demonstrate that he can play with the big boys, doing it now provides us with a better idea of whether to keep him or get rid of him at the end of the year because time is running out for Jack.

[What 18,810]

would trade both Howe and Watts at seasons end, get a 2nd and 3rd rounder and let Roosy and Todd pick some real footballers

Edited April 27, 2014 by hogans_heroes

[Deez 298]

would trade both Howe and Watts at seasons end, get a 2nd and 3rd rounder and let Roosy and Todd pick some real footballers

lol pretty brutal on Howe, he's been bad for the start of 1 season and we are calling for his neck?

unbelievable.

[Pennant St Dee 12,705]

They have done that in two years.....

Disagree with this, whilst many think the sudden turnaround is due to Hinkley it goes beyond that. I always thought they had the makings of a decent midfield even back in 2012. They made the 2007 GF with players leftover from the 04 flag and had some really good young players in that side namely Boak, Kane Cornes & Westhoff. Those 3 have been good leaders as they progressed through their careers.

They have also drafted & traded very well since that GF loss picking up Lobbe, Hartlett, Trengove & Broadbent in 07/08, Schulz & O'Shea in 09/10, Ebert, Wingard,Monfries & Wines in 11/12. Not to mention young players on their list in 2007 included Robbie Gray & Carlile.

In a nutshell they had the nucleus and Hinkley just gave them direction and put some life back into the older players. They continually turned over their list and their younger players developed away from the AFL. The difference with us and Port is they traded, drafted and developed well when the expansion clubs came in and we didn't.

[SaberFang 7,151]

At least Roos and the club will be looking at Port as a case study of how to turn things around, and identifying how to copy the formula.

[bing181 9,005]

I haven't seen the presser but if that's what was said then I don't get WTF is going on. We were told 3 pre-season ago it would take that long to get up to scratch, fitness-wise.

Now we're back at the drawing board again?

We've fought the last two games out till the end, even playing some of our better football late in the last quarter, so it would be hard to put our current shortcomings down to a lack of fitness.

On the other hand, we're still a comparatively young side, which will always compromise us against a side like the Swans - more experience, more pre-seasons, bigger bodies.

Yes, it takes time.

[monoccular 17,340]

Given the amount of scrutiny from the newspapers, tv, fans, team mates, and the general public I would expect this week if Jack plays to either spur him on or wash him up. After so much criticism and negative press if he cannot get himself to put in, (that does not mean he has to win but he needs to demonstrate desire to win the ball and contest) then nothing is going to inspire him. Dropping him provides him with an easy out by running him around the twos and possibly playing more lazy football because he is playing with casey. He can probably pick up enough touches to get selected again in the seniors but it does not mean that he has changed his approach to the game. He needs to demonstrate that he can play with the big boys, doing it now provides us with a better idea of whether to keep him or get rid of him at the end of the year because time is running out for Jack.

Disagree re Casey being an "easy out" for Volts.

One thing for certain is that if he does go to Casey he will be under intense scrutiny there: the coaching staff will do far more than look at raw possession numbers. He will be required to show effort and endeavor, and willingness to be involved and given his undoubted skills to lead as well as play his own game, and to apply pressure when Casey does not have the ball.

Edited April 27, 2014 by monoccular

[Undeeterred 3,045]

would trade both Howe and Watts at seasons end, get a 2nd and 3rd rounder and let Roosy and Todd pick some real footballers

Yep, that's about the fifteenth time you've posted that sentence in one form or another. We get it.

[jazza 1,323]

havent read the previous 10 pages.

set then scene for you. swans forward fifty line 20 mins into 1st Q.

kieren jack marks the footy 15 metres from us,{yes im with friends from sydney}daniel cross gets across to man the mark and with venom turns his head and screams towards a fellow dees player.

you guessed it none other than a blond headed mongoose flapping his arms and loping towards nowhere.

thats our JACK WATTS,it was very interesting to see an experienced player new to our club yelling at JW and actually caring that he was a lazy bugger.hope in a private moment he conveyed this to the coach.for the good of our club.

no im not picking on JW,this is just what happened for the 4395th time.

Edited April 27, 2014 by jazza

[SaberFang 7,151]

Crossy is exactly the guy who has earned the right to spray his teammates. He's shown more in 6 rounds for us than many on our list have shown in their career.

Hell, Cross shows more hardness and more thirst for the contest in one game than Watts all season. I guarantee this kind of behavior doesn't go unnoticed in the coaches box.

Having him out on the field is really like having a coach playing with the team. Loving it.

[Dockett 32 1,237]

Watched the game on TV interstate and thought it was a pretty reasonable effort given where we have come from and being a key forward short. Impact of Clark and Hogan situations, together with underperformance of Fitzpatrick is not of benefit. Watts inability to play the role he was recruited for and indeed any position it would seem, is unacceptable to all and particularly Roos who looked like he made that quite clear to him, as did Cross in an indirect way. So balls in your court Jack. Suggest you play with far more purpose, effect and fortitude than you have to date or a VFL career awaits. Re JH I am prepared to cut him a little more slack even though he tends to 'go to sleep' which is very costly, but seems Roos is trying to get him to work both ways.

Nonetheless believe we have put in a few worse efforts than that over recent years. Swans have a top class, tough midfield and even though they may have had a small edge on us in this area, we were streets ahead of where we were last year.

So happy with defence which is holding up (minus Frawley and Garland), happy with midfield improvement, but the forward set up ex Dawes and JKH, who are excused, needs work. Don't think the young bloke will be a sub next week so he should help so its back to - Who do we have to get our forward line functional? Frawley was ordinary on Saturday so do you give TMc a try and swich with either Frawley or Garland?

[SaberFang 7,151]

Frawley fluctuates between great and poor as a forward. Can't be easy to just totally switch your mindset when you've played in defense all your career, but our lack of forward options is still hurting us.

Think the Watts midfielder experiment may be over. Shove him deep forward and pray he learns how to mark.

[jazza 1,323]

dockett 32.

was the cross/watts incident in the 1st Q,?

could it be seen on telly and if so what did the commentators say about it.?

[whoszachunt 29]

Georgiou will be unlucky to get a week for that. Lowest of impact and it was meant to chop Franklins arm so it was accidental. Might get points with a reprimand. Franklin should be reprimanded for throwing himself on the ground like a spoilt brat - over acting and crying like a baby.

A ten million Dollar baby... What a girl.. !! Prances around like a fairy.. If he spent less time looking at himself on the replay screen .he might get more possessions.. I think he needs a chauffeur judging by his driving ability..He should be able to afford one as he is earning 2.5 million dollars a year over his last four years in the game..If he lasts that long. Looks to me like a blatant breach of Salary cap conditions. 10 million over 9 years is farcical..!! We were fined for "tanking"... That was also farcical..!! Good old AFL justice..!! Just saying

[SaberFang 7,151]

dockett 32.

was the cross/watts incident in the 1st Q,?

could it be seen on telly and if so what did the commentators say about it.?

Yep, was on the telly. Commentators just basically said he was letting a teammate know what he thought of their effort.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

Just watching the replay. Jack Watts doesn't tackle, he cuddles, after he jogs.

[whoszachunt 29]

I was happy with our defensive efforts, but how many throws did sydney get away with? how many incorrect disposals, chopping arms in marking contests. it was pretty ridiculous. I noticed it most when we started to get a run on. frustrating.

Pedersen was pretty good. couldn't cop,plain at all.

Dunne was fantastic, his disposal efficiency must have been fantastic, ill have to have a look.

plenty of good efforts, just gotta get it forward more.

improving every week.

if we keep on this trend, we will put a good game together for richmond.

The rules are stuffing ball getters.. The player who ferociously attacks the ball is invariably penalized for sliding into another player (normally just holding off with no intention of getting into the contest) Also the player making a genuine attempt to go and get the ball is 9 times out of 10 stalked by a soft C..k sweating on him to grab the ball only to be grabbed from behind or jumped on and then penalized for holding the ball when it is impossible to get rid of it in any way... Rule HAS to be looked at, otherwise will stop players from being first to the ball.. Stuffing the game completely !!

[rjay 24,616]

Franky was definitely cracking the sads and it was bloody hilarious.

I felt like throwing my 20 month year olds dummy to him.

Bloody sook.

He was known as a bit of a sook at Hawthorn when they did boxing training.

[Fat Tony 5,090]

• Watts is possibly playing too many minutes and his skill errors could be partly due to fatigue. I also think he is playing several kilos too light and the key emphasis of his development needs to be putting on size, not increasing his tank. He is naturally weak (strength wise) and this exacerbates his inability in a contest.
• Aside from his lack of appetite in the contest and poor tackling, the most frustrating part of Watt’s game is his inability to attack the ball and take it cleanly in the air at the highest point. He is always trying to take marks a meter off the ground.
• On another point, Watts would be one of the game’s biggest beneficiaries from any rule changes to reduce congestion.
• Jamar is a tree around the ground and the game has passed him by IMO. Roos made an error in playing him forward at all, as he provides nothing. With Pederson doing a pretty good job as second ruck, I would hate to see Gawn come in at the expense of anyone but Jamar.
• Salem looks fantastic. The Tyson trade looks to be a real winner for us, as Salem could well be the best player from the draft.
• There is no way I would drop Howe given the lack of options at Casey.
• Roos isn’t using the bench enough to rotate the midfield IMO, with our small forwards (JKH, Bail, Byrnes and Salem all playing very low minutes). Maybe we should play one less small forward and an extra midfielder.
• Frawley should start in the centre bounces. He could be like Josh Kennedy in the midfield.
• Terlich isn’t up to it. He was too loose and his skills let us down. Likewise, Jetta isn’t quite skilled enough given his lack of pace and size. We should experiment with players like Clisby, Toumpas, Strauss and Blease as small defenders for the rest of the year.
• I would only bring in McKenzie (best for Casey) if we felt he could tag Dangerfield.

[rjay 24,616]

At least Roos and the club will be looking at Port as a case study of how to turn things around, and identifying how to copy the formula.

I think they have a pretty good idea themselves, that's why we brought in an experienced group. They don't need Port as a case study, they know what has to be done.

[whoszachunt 29]

We were penalized too often for going in and getting the ball.. Only soft skilful players are protected in the game now ..NOT Hard , skilful Players..The rules are stuffing ball getters.. The player who ferociously attacks the ball is invariably penalized for sliding into another player (normally just holding off with no intention of getting into the contest) Also the player making a genuine attempt to go and get the ball is 9 times out of 10 stalked by a soft C..k sweating on him to grab the ball only to be grabbed from behind or jumped on and then penalized for holding the ball when it is impossible to get rid of it in any way... Rule HAS to be looked at, otherwise will stop players from being first to the ball.. Stuffing the game completely !!

[rjay 24,616]

• Watts is possibly playing too many minutes and his skill errors could be partly due to fatigue. I also think he is playing several kilos too light and the key emphasis of his development needs to be putting on size, not increasing his tank. He is naturally weak (strength wise) and this exacerbates his inability in a contest.

• Aside from his lack of appetite in the contest and poor tackling, the most frustrating part of Watt’s game is his inability to attack the ball and take it cleanly in the air at the highest point. He is always trying to take marks a meter off the ground.

• On another point, Watts would be one of the game’s biggest beneficiaries from any rule changes to reduce congestion.

• Jamar is a tree around the ground and the game has passed him by IMO. Roos made an error in playing him forward at all, as he provides nothing. With Pederson doing a pretty good job as second ruck, I would hate to see Gawn come in at the expense of anyone but Jamar.

• Salem looks fantastic. The Tyson trade looks to be a real winner for us, as Salem could well be the best player from the draft.

• There is no way I would drop Howe given the lack of options at Casey.

• Roos isn’t using the bench enough to rotate the midfield IMO, with our small forwards (JKH, Bail, Byrnes and Salem all playing very low minutes). Maybe we should play one less small forward and an extra midfielder.

• Frawley should start in the centre bounces. He could be like Josh Kennedy in the midfield.

• Terlich isn’t up to it. He was too loose and his skills let us down. Likewise, Jetta isn’t quite skilled enough given his lack of pace and size. We should experiment with players like Clisby, Toumpas, Strauss and Blease as small defenders for the rest of the year.

• I would only bring in McKenzie (best for Casey) if we felt he could tag Dangerfield.

Wouldn't be quick enough to go with him would be my opinion. Who is??? that's the big question.

[Fat Tony 5,090]

Wouldn't be quick enough to go with him would be my opinion. Who is??? that's the big question.

Nicholson maybe, but I am not sure he is big enough. His job on Griffen last year was OK, despite being beaten.

[ManDee 7,124]

A ten million Dollar baby... What a girl.. !! Prances around like a fairy.. If he spent less time looking at himself on the replay screen .he might get more possessions.. I think he needs a chauffeur judging by his driving ability..He should be able to afford one as he is earning 2.5 million dollars a year over his last four years in the game..If he lasts that long. Looks to me like a blatant breach of Salary cap conditions. 10 million over 9 years is farcical..!! We were fined for "tanking"... That was also farcical..!! Good old AFL justice..!! Just saying

No, we were fined for "bringing the game into disrepute". We were not guilty of tanking. Because tanking does not exist!