The continuing saga of Melbourne's injury list - 2014

[nutbean 8,837]

im here, havent checked this thread for a while

To answer the posts you've quoted

Off the top of my head

Jack Trengoves foot - hes clearly been troubled with it for the best part of 18 months and it was obviously never checked properly.

Mitch Clark back too early from his foot injury - the original injury couldn't be helped but the rehab was stuffed up big time. Comes back, plays a few games, and hes gone again. Need another month or two for his foot to settle instead of the club being hellbent on having him there in round 1

then theres Jesse Hogans back - complained of soreness after a preseason game and they still played him. Seems the club didnt check it properly until it was too late. Now christ only knows when he will play or when his back will heal

wow.

just wow.

exactly how do you know this stuff.

Serious question - do you have any medical background ? Just interested. (I'm tipping proctology because I am seeing a pattern as to where you pull a lot of your comments from)

[What 18,810]

wow.

just wow.

exactly how do you know this stuff.

common sense

Tell me what I said that you disagree with

[nutbean 8,837]

common sense

Tell me what I said that you disagree with

common sense - I disagree with every thing you have said

Tell me exactly which medical records, rehab programs and exactly what each footballer told medical staff on examination and then you may be taken seriously.

It is not common sense - it is your frustration at injuries that occur and some that don't respond to treatment as you would like.

You have zero insight as to how players present and are treated. Your common sense is more " I am not getting the outcome I want when it comes to injuries therefore someone is to blame".

[jnrmac 19,131]

Can't we just continue to blame Bohdan Babijczuk for everything?

If only to use spell czech on that name.....

damn....

[dazzledavey36 48,955]

Played a few VFL practise games.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,497]

common sense - I disagree with every thing you have said

Tell me exactly which medical records, rehab programs and exactly what each footballer told medical staff on examination and then you may be taken seriously.

It is not common sense - it is your frustration at injuries that occur and some that don't respond to treatment as you would like.

You have zero insight as to how players present and are treated. Your common sense is more " I am not getting the outcome I want when it comes to injuries therefore someone is to blame".

Nutbeam, I admire you for persisting. I just don't have the patience. Interesting how often the "it's just common sense" defence is used when the facts aren't available to support a proposition.

[nutbean 8,837]

However when Mitch Clark lined up in round 1, 2013 i remember a lot of people here questioning if he was reedy and if he should be held out longer

No doubt that fitness/medical staff push the limits. I have no doubt because fitness/medical staff have said this. They play footballers 80% fit and hope to run them into fitness, players with niggling injuries play with them in the hope they dont get worse and players get jabs to mask the pain.

However you can line up every Demonland poster and their immediate family and let them comment on the medical treatments - their insight is the same as yours. Without intimate knowledge of the player, his presentation, the exact nature of an injury and the recovery and rehab program given - they like you, are absolutely guessing with no insight whatsoever.

We have a couple of medical professionals on here and even they have stopped short on offering concrete opinions - why do you think that is ?

We can debate if Watts is going hard enough, if Bails disposal is improving and whether Jamar taps to advantage because we have lots of concrete vision and evidence to form an opinion. I am not sure you understand that when it comes to medical treatment none of us have enough information to even cast an opinion ?

Edited May 14, 2014 by nutbean

[binman 38,755]

No doubt that fitness/medical staff push the limits. I have no doubt because fitness/medical staff have said this. They play footballers 80% fit and hope to run them into fitness, players with niggling injuries play with them in the hope they dont get worse and players get jabs to mask the pain.

However you can line up every Demonland poster and their immediate family and let them comment on the medical treatments - their insight is the same as yours. Without intimate knowledge of the player, his presentation, the exact nature of an injury and the recovery and rehab program given - they like you, are absolutely guessing with no insight whatsoever.

We have a couple of medical professionals on here and even they have stopped short on offering concrete opinions - why do you think that is ?

We can debate if Watts is going hard enough, if Bails disposal is improving and whether Jamar taps to advantage because we have lots of concrete vision and evidence to form an opinion. I am not sure you understand that when it comes to medical treatment none of us have enough information to even cast an opinion ?

Perhaps we can play pop psychologist and diagnose personality disorders of DL posters based on their posts - paranoid, schizoid, dissocial, emotionally unstable (borderline type and impulsive type), histrionic, anankastic, anxious (avoidant) and dependent, haltlose, immature, narcissistic, passive-aggressive or psychoneurotic. Take your pick. Some peopel are natural medical experts so why not?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

"Achilles heel" would have been clearer, but yes, that's what I came to assume.

Well done.

[old dee 22,945]

Perhaps we can play pop psychologist and diagnose personality disorders of DL posters based on their posts - paranoid, schizoid, dissocial, emotionally unstable (borderline type and impulsive type), histrionic, anankastic, anxious (avoidant) and dependent, haltlose, immature, narcissistic, passive-aggressive or psychoneurotic. Take your pick. Some peopel are natural medical experts so why not?

I would think you need approx. 50% of those to follow the MFC binman.

[binman 38,755]

I would think you need approx. 50% of those to follow the MFC binman.

Good point old dee. The list is missing my condition - Pollyanna Syndrome: an irrational belief that the dees will radically improve. The last 2-3 weeks i have felt the symptoms come back. God forbid if we win this week.

[Machsy 2,858]

Well done.

Got there in the end.

You are aware there is a difference between an achilles heel and an achilles tendon?

Or as our friend on wheel of fortune would say, "ay-chill-ess"

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

I thought we all just suffered from idolatry

As for the injuries, same as everything else, we probably made mistakes in the past, of course there is no such thing as a player hiding an injury to keep their place is there?

Now it is much more stringent, Aiden Riley told me towards the end of his rehab and his leg was fine, he even avoided looking at it in case the medical staff thought he had a problem and dragged him out of the training

Some of the queries over injuries baffle me, these are guys who run anywhere between 5 and 15km a game and crash into 85 -100Kg, something gives occasionally

[daisycutter 28,630]

Perhaps we can play pop psychologist and diagnose personality disorders of DL posters based on their posts - paranoid, schizoid, dissocial, emotionally unstable (borderline type and impulsive type), histrionic, anankastic, anxious (avoidant) and dependent, haltlose, immature, narcissistic, passive-aggressive or psychoneurotic. Take your pick. Some peopel are natural medical experts so why not?

i'm all of those things binman......do i get a box of chocolates?

[Red and Bluebeard 2,044]

i'm all of those things binman......do i get a box of chocolates?

Better make sure they are sugar-free, or they might set you off ...

[chook fowler 18,327]

I am a medico but not in the area of sports medicine ( or proctology ) but I certainly do understand that back and foot pain are two of the most difficult areas to pin down diagnostically, mainly because of the limits of radiology and other tests and also because the time course for healing is so individualistic that it is hard to identify an end point for resolution. I can't believe that the conditions weren't taken seriously or properly assessed. These people are professionals and would not put their reputations at risk. I've said before that diagnosis is an inexact science and the natural history of many disorders is often unpredictable. It's frustrating but in the words of a long lost Guru " It is what it is! "

[nutbean 8,837]

I am a medico but not in the area of sports medicine ( or proctology ) but I certainly do understand that back and foot pain are two of the most difficult areas to pin down diagnostically, mainly because of the limits of radiology and other tests and also because the time course for healing is so individualistic that it is hard to identify an end point for resolution. I can't believe that the conditions weren't taken seriously or properly assessed. These people are professionals and would not put their reputations at risk. I've said before that diagnosis is an inexact science and the natural history of many disorders is often unpredictable. It's frustrating but in the words of a long lost Guru " It is what it is! "

I am a medico but not in the area of sports medicine ( or proctology ) but I certainly do understand that back and foot pain are two of the most difficult areas to pin down diagnostically, mainly because of the limits of radiology and other tests and also because the time course for healing is so individualistic that it is hard to identify an end point for resolution. I can't believe that the conditions weren't taken seriously or properly assessed. These people are professionals and would not put their reputations at risk. I've said before that diagnosis is an inexact science and the natural history of many disorders is often unpredictable. It's frustrating but in the words of a long lost Guru " It is what it is! "

Thanks for that.

Summed it up perfectly.

Having said that - reputations aside , even if they completely botched the diagnosis and treatment no one on here without access to the "files" would have any idea whatsoever.

Just irks me that an injury doesn't go the way we would like and automatically it has to be dodgy medical/fitness staff.

[old dee 22,945]

Better make sure they are sugar-free, or they might set you off ...

Interesting subject "sugar Free "

I always wonder what the point is, I wonder about caffeine free coffee and low salt chips.

[bing181 8,176]

I am a medico but not in the area of sports medicine ( or proctology )

That probably covers all the ailments that you could be asked about pro-bono here on Demonland, especially the latter. Smart move.

[monoccular 16,262]

im here, havent checked this thread for a while

To answer the posts you've quoted

Off the top of my head

Jack Trengoves foot - hes clearly been troubled with it for the best part of 18 months and it was obviously never checked properly.

Mitch Clark back too early from his foot injury - the original injury couldn't be helped but the rehab was stuffed up big time. Comes back, plays a few games, and hes gone again. Need another month or two for his foot to settle instead of the club being hellbent on having him there in round 1

then theres Jesse Hogans back - complained of soreness after a preseason game and they still played him. Seems the club didnt check it properly until it was too late. Now christ only knows when he will play or when his back will heal

So you know exactly what Jack complained about, and exactly what diagnostic modalities were used and the reliability thereof? Maybe even the results that showed pathology which was ignored by the club? Perhaps you know of some new infallible test for a sore foot that nobody in the club knows of?

And you know exactly what Mitch's orthopaedic surgeon and rehab physio advised at the time, and that their advice was ignored by the club, hell bent on having him there in round 1

And that Jesse didn't have his back checked properly after complaining of soreness (must surely be the only player to complain of back soreness in his back) prior to having someone knee him in it in the preseason game, which of course you but nobody else knew was inevitably going to happen.

Footy is (still) a physical game and injuries occur.

Can you please apply for the job as fitness and rehab director, as you clearly know more than the professionals at our club.

And can you please tell me Saturday's Tattslotto numbers - you seem to know everything and be able to predict the future.

PS: I am as frustrated as anyone about these persisting / recurring injuries, as I was with (in particular) Ox's knees (would have been possibly THE best CHF of his era >Carey), Lyon's back (which prevented him from being more that a very good player), Jakovich's back (still we have no 100 goal kicker - he almost certainly would have done so), Prympke's back, Glenn Lovett's groin, Tngay's back and hammies etc etc etc which occurred long before our current fitness staff and management were in place.

Edited May 14, 2014 by monoccular

[old dee 22,945]

So you know exactly what Jack complained about, and exactly what diagnostic modalities were used and the reliability thereof? Maybe even the results that showed pathology which was ignored by the club? Perhaps you know of some new infallible test for a sore foot that nobody in the club knows of?

And you know exactly what Mitch's orthopaedic surgeon and rehab physio advised at the time, and that their advice was ignored by the club, hell bent on having him there in round 1

And that Jesse didn't have his back checked properly after complaining of soreness (must surely be the only player to complain of back soreness in his back) prior to having someone knee him in it in the preseason game, which of course you but nobody else knew was inevitably going to happen.

Footy is (still) a physical game and injuries occur.

Can you please apply for the job as fitness and rehab director, as you clearly know more than the professionals at our club.

And can you please tell me Saturday's Tattslotto numbers - you seem to know everything and be able to predict the future.

PS: I am as frustrated as anyone about these persisting / recurring injuries, as I was with (in particular) Ox's knees (would have been possibly THE best CHF of his era >Carey), Lyon's back (which prevented him from being more that a very good player), Jakovich's back (still we have no 100 goal kicker - he almost certainly would have done so), Prympke's back, Glenn Lovett's groin, Tngay's back and hammies etc etc etc which occurred long before our current fitness staff and management were in place.

Probably more than ever mono.

We have been unlucky with Clark and Hogan but IMO we have a normal amount of injuries whatever normal is.

The reason we get [censored] off is injuries to better players hurt us more than the better sides .

Our list drops away in quality very quickly so the wrong ones injured has a dramatic effect.

[nutbean 8,837]

Probably more than ever mono.

We have been unlucky with Clark and Hogan but IMO we have a normal amount of injuries whatever normal is.

The reason we get [censored] off is injuries to better players hurt us more than the better sides .

Our list drops away in quality very quickly so the wrong ones injured has a dramatic effect.

I think also there is a fair amount of scepticism and discontent on the injury listings and how long a player will be out for. I have little doubt that they put in either optimistic return dates or at worst, return dates for a recovery that all goes to plan. As we know, not all injuries follow a pre prescribed schedule and some just dont respond as they should.

I don't lose a minutes sleep over the accuracy of the injury list and take it purely as a rough estimate.

And OD - 100% spot on - we need everyone of good players up and about as we just dont have enough of them

[jnrmac 19,131]

Hogan is back training after the bye according to the MFC twitter page....

Just sayin...

[nutbean 8,837]

Interesting talking about incompetent medical teams.

So much comes down to what the players actually tells the medicos - players who's sole motivation is getting on the ground and playing the game they love.

Would you suggest Hawthorns medical staff are incompetent - Gibson has a slightly sore shoulder - Hawks give him leave to travel 16 hours on a plane to see his girfriend in the US during the bye - he comes back and says his shoulder is now REALLY sore - he has a torn pectoral - out for 10 weeks.

[Whispering_Jack 28,015]

This is a new one

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