Dean Terlich - Good player or defensive liability?

[Arrow 1,257]

Now that post-season training is officially upon us, we can move the debate from unknown commodities to the 'known' footballers.

Dean has been a very interesting proposition for me; on a statistics level he was incredible, his offensive ability is clear, he nearly averaged 20 touches a game, from the top of my head ranked 4th in possessions playing in a back pocket and finished with a best first year player, along with 3rd in the BNF. To the supercoach football fan, he was amazing.

Now to my concerns, I see Dean as a great 2nd tier footballer. He's far too eager to push forward when staying on his man is the smarter option. He regularly runs forward turns the ball over and see's it go back over his head. His footskills are reasonable, but his decision making is terrible which results in a bad looking kick. He had 55 clangers this year, which playing out of the backline simply isn't good enough. To put it in comparison, Aaron Mullett, North Melbourne's version of our Terlich played an extra 4 games and had 42 clangers. Mullett also kicks out.

I see him having a very minimal role in this year's team. If you could recieve odd's on such a scenario I'm sure they'd be $1.04 for him to play 18+ games given his year, but the unaccountable run off defender I don't see a position for in Roos lineup. In the 18 games he played this year, he was directly responsible for 34 conceded goals. That's an average of 1.89 a game. It's a concern when the small forward of the opposition is almost guaranteed 2 goals a game. To put it in comparison Corey Enright conceded 0.68 a game, and Steven Morris 0.79. Even GWS' Adam Kennedy averaged a better average of 1.59. Rory Laird for Adelaide, another player who played his first AFL game last year was at a low 0.88 goals per game conceded. It's not impossible to do it in a bad team or in your first year.

Furthermore, this also doesn't include when you've turned the ball over, or you've run of your man and other defenders are forced to scatter on the rebound.

Talk to me Demonland, will Turnover Terlich be best 22 next year.

[rpfc 28,503]

I like his boldness.

But turnovers will lose you your spot (if there are ready replacements) and he needs to get better.

I think Grimes and Toumpas may be moved back and that will make it difficult because I like Clisby more than Terlich.

We will see.

[daisycutter 29,616]

the guy has only had one year at afl coming from sanfl - so not a bad effort

whilst you might be right about his shortcomings we need to see what roos can get out of him with a little development

bit premature to write him off at this stage

[brey9186 102]

If we can get out small defenders right with out terlich, I really can see him moving to the midfield. His pace, attacking footy and at times stupid way he hits the contest he could be a real weapon in the middle. Good breakaway pace from contests with long kicks into the triple towers will be great!

If grimes, clisby and Strauss can stay fit as smaller defenders then we have lots of options

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

Tend to agree dc, good coaching should see his decision making improve and hopefully his skills too. If we see improvement next year then we'll know that probably he will only get better.

[deeko 952]

I loved his hardness however was always nervous when he or any other of his backline comrades had the ball as there we never any movement up ahead (not there fault). Instead he was forced to try pin point near impossible passes. He reminds of Bartram but with with better skills and better beard.

I like the comparisons between Mullett and himself but feel Mullett would have greater spread and therefore less chance of shanking the kicks.

Edited December 1, 2013 by deeko

[autocol 448]

I think it's a bit unfair to directly compare his stats with guys playing in teams with a percentage not in the low 50's. Of course he'll have conceded more goals than most... SOMEONE has to get a bag kicked on them when we're losing by ten goals.

I reckon his disposal efficiency would improve if the team was more cohesive. I don't think our defence had much to kick to this year.

All that said, defenders need to defend, first and foremost!

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

On an episode of "On the Couch", I think after our honorable loss to the Swans, PR singled out Terlich's game and criticised it. Saying it's all good and well to get 27 touches but on this particular day he directly conceded 5 goals to his opponents, which isn't good enough. I'm not sure if Roos had Terlich in his best 22 article either. Just something to ponder.

[PaulRB 6,377]

I reckon Terlich could evolve into a similar midfielder to Mitch Robinson.

Attacking, physical, in your face...

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Simply put, he's an average player in a deplorable team

Despite their high B&F placings, I think both Terlich and M.Jones are both overrated, it was a good story for both of them to come from state leagues and play every game, but it was more a case of that several of our other players' immaturity made them both look better, and both are quite messy players although they were both quite consistent. Terlich only really impressed me in about 2 games and apart from that I thought he was quite a liability

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Like /\ /\

Terlich tries to do too much and runs himself in to trouble far too often; that's probably why he regularly turns the ball over.

Edited December 1, 2013 by RobbieF

[Whispering_Jack 30,208]

I need to meditate over this for a while.

[Maldonboy38 6,403]

On 2013 form, I can't see him in the 2014 best 25 players.

His attack on the ball is outstanding.

His tackling and defensive pressure is very, very good.

His kicking is OK.

His decision making is really bad. Very rarely does he take 1st option, and by the time he takes option 2 pr 3, he is pressured or the other options have closed up.

His forward of the pack running is good, but his decision making is so poor, he is often having to sprint back to find his now-free player.

Clisby ahead of him a the moment, however it is only Terlich's first year. Another preseason may wipe put most of these errors.

[DemonWA 3,934]

It's a hard one, on one hand I feel that Terlich and matty jones will struggle to play as many games as they did last year, however who's to say they can develop and improve under roos (as we're all assuming trengove, toumpas et al to do)

Can't wait for season 2014

[Forest Demon 4,681]

One thing I will say to stick up for Terlich is i think a lack of options and spread by teammates often make the option he takes end up looking rubbish if that makes sense. I think as the team gets better and we have numbers running with him, his supposed clangers will dry up a bit.

He is never going to carve a side up like Aaron Davey off half back but I think he easily best 22.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Problem is, we need better small/medium defenders. There's Dunn (inconsistent, lazy, poor decisions), Terlich (sloppy), Strauss (injury-prone, hasn't shown that much to date), Clisby (hasn't shown enough) and Grimes (poor decision making, disappointing kicking, spends too much time up the ground). We don't have a reliable run and carrier, distributor, courageous hole filler or a good small forward match up.

with a fit list, I definitely fail to see how M.Jones would get a game. Terlich on the other hand probably stays in because of lack of better options, initially

Edited December 1, 2013 by Je Roos Salem

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

It took Collingwood fans about 8 years and a dip in the teams form to find the errors in Harry O's game that we've identified in Terlich in one season. That's the positive of being such a bad team.

PRO's

- Great tackle. Rarely misses a tackle and has good technique

- Excellent at winning contested ball on the ground or marking in the air

- Finds the footy and takes the game on with run.

Cons

- One on one defensive ability

- Turnovers

But I'd argue both are not horrible cons when you consider the delivery in to his opponents and what Terlich was facing when he looked up most times and saw pressure. A lot of his turnovers were caused by a worse defender handballing to him as he was the only one running and then he looks up and has to thread the eye of needle on a kick due to very little up field.

If he does get more run and support from the midfield then he only has to improve his kicking/decision making marginally and he'll go from 55 clangers to less than one a game. Similarly if we concede a normal amount of league inside 50's under decent defensive pressure the goals kicked on him will plummet.

Either way it might be a battle for half back flank spots that sees Terlich fight for a spot with Clisby and Strauss as Grimes moves back there. But I don't want to see guys come and play half back and not hunt the ball with courage as Terlich does, not tackle and not attack and take the game on from half back.

Instead of trying to bring players down I'm hoping Terlich improves his deficiencies enough that he becomes a reliable best 22 player in a stronger team. It's about time fans hope for that more than keep hoping players fail and are replace by the next line of players who are suddenly superstars.

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

Problem is, we need better small/medium defenders. There's Dunn (inconsistent, lazy, poor decisions), Terlich (sloppy), Strauss (injury-prone, hasn't shown that much to date), Clisby (hasn't shown enough) and Grimes (poor decision making, disappointing kicking, spends too much time up the ground). We don't have a reliable run and carrier, distributor, courageous hole filler or a good small forward match up.

with a fit list, I definitely fail to see how M.Jones would get a game. Terlich on the other hand probably stays in because of lack of better options, initially

Agree with that. Although I'd say Hawthorn (Birchall, Burgoyne, Guerra, Hodge), Sydney at full strength ie 2012 not even most of 2013 (Malceski, McVeigh, Smith) are the only 2 off the top of my head who do. Freo do well with Lee Spurr, Johnson as 3rd tall but then Duffield and Sutcliff get shown up in the grand final.

Hopefully Grimes can be that defensive general who's responsible for 3rd man up, zoning off and helping in the air. Terlich is probably leader for the other flank and duties as a possession getting half back due to his ability to actually find the ball and run. Clisby might be the best lock down guy we have but only for true small forwards as he is very small and slight and might not be big enough in the air. Dunn is just too dumb to feature in any ideal plans. I see why they took a chance of Georgiou in the rookie draft if he's an elite stopper he could be our Nick Smith.

Certainly the priority remains the midfield and therefor should be the focus for our better players as well as midfield development for guys at Casey. But if we improve the midfield then it wouldn't surprise me if Vince moves to half back. Even now I'd play him as a sweeper from the midfield. Developing Toumpas or Salem as half backs are other options but I'd leave that for now.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It took Collingwood fans about 8 years and a dip in the teams form to find the errors in Harry O's game that we've identified in Terlich in one season. That's the positive of being such a bad team.

PRO's

- Great tackle. Rarely misses a tackle and has good technique

- Excellent at winning contested ball on the ground or marking in the air

- Finds the footy and takes the game on with run.

Cons

- One on one defensive ability

- Turnovers

But I'd argue both are not horrible cons when you consider the delivery in to his opponents and what Terlich was facing when he looked up most times and saw pressure. A lot of his turnovers were caused by a worse defender handballing to him as he was the only one running and then he looks up and has to thread the eye of needle on a kick due to very little up field.

If he does get more run and support from the midfield then he only has to improve his kicking/decision making marginally and he'll go from 55 clangers to less than one a game. Similarly if we concede a normal amount of league inside 50's under decent defensive pressure the goals kicked on him will plummet.

Either way it might be a battle for half back flank spots that sees Terlich fight for a spot with Clisby and Strauss as Grimes moves back there. But I don't want to see guys come and play half back and not hunt the ball with courage as Terlich does, not tackle and not attack and take the game on from half back.

Instead of trying to bring players down I'm hoping Terlich improves his deficiencies enough that he becomes a reliable best 22 player in a stronger team. It's about time fans hope for that more than keep hoping players fail and are replace by the next line of players who are suddenly superstars.

I don't think anyone on here wants to see Terlich fail; not sure what you are on about there. I think I speak for all on here and that is I'd like to see every player pushing for a spot in the side because they were good enough and up to AFL standard.

I certainly hope that he's able to overcome his deficiencies and move up a peg next year, but at the moment he has a lot of work to do.

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

I don't think anyone on here wants to see Terlich fail; not sure what you are on about there. I think I speak for all on here and that is I'd like to see every player pushing for a spot in the side because they were good enough and up to AFL standard.

I certainly hope that he's able to overcome his deficiencies and move up a peg next year, but at the moment he has a lot of work to do.

The general tone of Arrow's post is pretty obvious to me.

[monoccular 17,432]

Can't really argue about your stats I guess, but maybe any deep defender in MFC the past few years would concede a lot of turnovers given his disposal target options - stationery or slow moving targets without a clue as to what to do or how to do it, with a dose of laziness or couldn't care less thrown in.

Assuming better discipline, structure, coaching and additional quality personnel upfield perhaps he will have better options that will result in fewer turnovers.

Sounds simple??

[Young Dee 1,303]

I think that currently our backline looks something like this:

Dunn/Clisby Frawley Garland

Grimes Mdcdonald Terlich

I think the problem with that is we have no class coming out of the backline. We need a quick rebounding defender who makes good decisions and is a good kick.

I think Grimes and Terlich is too much - its one or the other and I think Grimes wins that one so its a matter of replacing Terlich with a classy rebounder.

Our list doesn't have a whole lot who could fit that bill but Strauss (good kick and quick) and maybe Clisby (lacks class/speed though).

Jetta is another possibility and maybe even Kent (bit left of field) but none of these really stand out so I think Terlich may be safe next year (until we can get a classy rebounder).

Next year we may just have to put up with a tough but ill composed backline.

[monoccular 17,432]

Young Dee - as I just posted above yours......maybe having harder working mids up field will make our deep defenders look not quite so indecisive or unskilled.

Looking up at a stagnant midfield with the cavalry approaching fast could make the most composed defender decompose.

Edited December 1, 2013 by monoccular

[Little Goffy 14,579]

The nightmare for HBF and anyone with rebounding responsibilities is a team which lacks either the fitness, alertness or work ethic to get to useful positions and offer options breaking out of defence.

It has been a crippling problem for us over the greater portion of a decade, and I think it is one of those factors that can least be assigned to any given player.

AFL is a harsh world, a HBF could lose 10% off their kicking efficiency for no better reason than being in a dumb/fat/disinterested team!

Anyway, back to Terlich himself - I think he has some positive characteristics and could be a quality player with a long career, but it is still too early to make the call now.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Others have alluded to the fact that there are players on our list outside the midfield that are difficult to rate.

Terlich is one. As others have stated he is a decent footballer that needs to find a balance in his game. His first job is as a defender and when you find your opposition creating scores and scoring opportunities consistently through your opponent it can undo a lot of good work.

He is naturally an attacking half back flanker, is he damaging enough to match him up to the weaker of the half forwards and expect him to hurt the opposition?