On 21/09/2014 at 01:13, daisycutter said:

definitely been reading too many matthew reilly novels

need to update your library - LOL

Nothing very mysterious about Mathew Reilly novels (excepts why grown-ups read them)

My favourite bit of the saga was when McKenzie or Baker were interviewing Dank and he mentions he gave the players TB4.

Journo looks it up and finds its illegal.

Dank: oh is it? Well, we didn't give them that then.

Almost as good, Little's persistent "we've no idea what we gave them, but whatever it was, it was legal."

Geniuses in charge down there at Windy Hill.

  On 20/09/2014 at 23:38, Nasher said:

34 out of 34 players believed they were going to get away with it? Nup. Can't believe that.

I reckon they have been sold an alternative story.

Keeping it quiet and not asking too many questions for strategic reasons.

Not unreasonable to expect the following to happen in the near future:

Hird paid out and leaves. Maybe Bomber stays on.

Board resigns.

Players do a deal with ASADA, on favourable terms in regards to penalty.

  On 20/09/2014 at 23:27, Nasher said:

That's still not 100% though, is it?

34/34 players not asking a question, raising a red flag, asking the AFLPA, talking to anyone about it outside the Essendung bubble...

Too hard to believe for mine. Either it's not true and someone's covering something up, or the players had reason to believe everything was legitimate.

I think if they had of spoken to someone in the PA it would have already come out by now, or at worst it will in the next couple of weeks. The AFL knew they were up to something so the word must have gone out somehow.

It's bewildering

  On 21/09/2014 at 02:36, Redleg said:

Not unreasonable to expect the following to happen in the near future:

Hird paid out and leaves. Maybe Bomber stays on.

Board resigns.

Players do a deal with ASADA, on favourable terms in regards to penalty.

Probably, but I bet Hird will still leave town and head over the water somewhere. Gives a valid 'reason' to part ways and gets him out of the way...ala sending him off to France...out of sight out of mind.

So probably some combination of my hypothetical and your reasonable expectation will be the outcome after the GF.

  On 20/09/2014 at 23:33, daisycutter said:

this is not surprising. they seemed equally unaware of their options/responsibilities during the pharmacological experimentations

i find it very hard to accept that everyone of the 34 players failed to seek any outside advice during this period

some were naive and duped but i can't believe all 34 could have been, with all the drug education of the wada code afl players receive

I find it just as surprising as you dc.

It beggars belief

  On 21/09/2014 at 05:20, old dee said:

I find it just as surprising as you dc.

It beggars belief

Yes OD and Daisycutter, it does beggar belief. So what do you conclude? I made some guesses in post 7868.

It is plausible that the players were gullible and duped 100%. After all the selling was done by Golden Boy Hird who had an unimpeachable reputation and Mr Snake Oil Dank. Signing waivers and such also gave some facade of authenticity and legitimacy to the whole scheme.

How does Vlad come out in all of this now ( not that it matters I suppose). Nonetheless the AFL haven't been spanked.

Is the criticism he copped reasonable?

  On 21/09/2014 at 05:57, Dockett 32 said:

How does Vlad come out in all of this now ( not that it matters I suppose). Nonetheless the AFL haven't been spanked.

Is the criticism he copped reasonable?

I am sure Vlad is the big silent winner here as is David Evans. Justice Middleton virtually dropkicked Hird's and Essendon's complaints about his and the AFL's conduct out of the park. The judge found no fault in the AFL's conduct other than being somewhat hasty to get the investigation over quickly. The media criticism orchestrated by Team Hird will fade away and be forgotten.

  On 21/09/2014 at 05:57, Dockett 32 said:

How does Vlad come out in all of this now ( not that it matters I suppose). Nonetheless the AFL haven't been spanked.

Is the criticism he copped reasonable?

What has Vlad done? He didn't inject players. He didn't run a drug regime

At worst he tried to warn Ess that a hail of shite was about to come down. And Ess are trying to blame him for their mess? Preposterous. Like everything Ess have done since being outed, it is a complete and utter distraction and totally irrelevant to the main issue - one that the footy world is waiting for Ess to address and take responsibility as they said they would do on day 1. Why anyone believes otherwise is beyond me.

And keep reminding yourself if need be - how would the world respond if we replaced 'Essendon' with the Chinese swim team. Everyone would be screaming blue murder. The narrative is all about how the players were duped but frankly, aside from a few of the young recruits, I have zero sympathy. They go through around 25 hours of training a year on drugs. They are taught to ask questions and take responsibility. That they didn't seem to is frankly unbelievable for the most part.

  On 21/09/2014 at 05:31, sue said:

Yes OD and Daisycutter, it does beggar belief. So what do you conclude? I made some guesses in post 7868.

yes, your mix of reasons for different players is probably reailstic

whilst i have a certain amount of sympathy, i don't really buy all this "poor players" propaganda

Things we can reseonably deduce from alk of this:

Nothing flies higher than Icarus than James Hird.

Nothing is is more pig headedly arrogant than a Paul Little

And nothing is not dumber than Dog Shlt than your typical Essendon player.

They must be a cult.. .no one else in their right mind would have ever been sucked in by that rubbish.

Burn baby burn

  On 21/09/2014 at 00:02, biggestred said:

The players knew the drugs were on the premises.

I have no sympathy for them.

They should get the full 2 years.

Essendon should also be removed from the competition for a number of years, or made to play with a depleted list for 0 points.

Give their AFL license to Tasmania, NT or even NZ for a couple of years.

  On 21/09/2014 at 08:31, RickyJ45 said:

Give their AFL license to Tasmania, NT or even NZ for a couple of years.

permanently

  On 21/09/2014 at 06:55, beelzebub said:

Things we can reseonably deduce from alk of this:

Nothing flies higher than Icarus than James Hird.

Nothing is is more pig headedly arrogant than a Paul Little

And nothing is not dumber than Dog Shlt than your typical Essendon player.

They must be a cult.. .no one else in their right mind would have ever been sucked in by that rubbish.

Burn baby burn

Close BB

BUT

And nothing is MORE dumber than Dog Shlt than your typical Essendon SUPPORTER.

  On 20/09/2014 at 21:31, bing181 said:

A few leaks in the dam wall perhaps:

New push to dump James Hird from Essendon could see him sacked before Christmas

As a view into how far off in Alice-in-Wonderland the Essendon Board and admin are, I particularly liked:

"One of the 34 players issued a show cause notice told the Sunday Herald Sun that he was led to believe that the club would be certain to win its Federal Court case against ASADA and the notices would be set aside permanently."

One of the things I have enjoyed most about this saga is that finally for once it doesn't involve MFC. But this part of the article could yet come back to bite us on our backsides.

"The revelations come as the club prepares for the possibility of show cause notices being issued to several support staff. Insiders at ASADA have hinted that there are more show cause notices to be issued stemming from the Essendon investigation."

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Club just appoint one of the support staff who was sending emails around about being sent the good gear. Or something to that effect. Lets hope and prey our new appointee isn't about to be issued one of those notices. I never saw the references to him until he was appointed but it has to be a worry. Wouldn't that just be typical if he ends up being banned after just being appointed to us.

  On 21/09/2014 at 05:48, america de cali said:

It is plausible that the players were gullible and duped 100%. After all the selling was done by Golden Boy Hird who had an unimpeachable reputation and Mr Snake Oil Dank. Signing waivers and such also gave some facade of authenticity and legitimacy to the whole scheme.

no it isnt.

they knew there were un-approved drugs on the premises at essendon

they didnt say no to taking whatever they were told to take despite this

therefore THE PLAYERS attempted to cheat.

  On 20/09/2014 at 22:56, Lucifer said:

Toll is still a major sponsor but that may go if players are suspended and Little and Hird are dumped.

I'm still gobsmacked that Hird has gone to the USA for more business training and left a sh.. storm in his wake, just before trade period. Maybe he knows he is gone and just setting himself up for life after AFL. Inexplicable otherwise.

Why does a footy coach need business training? Preparing for life after coaching, which maybe he realises is imminent.

Hird really has this club's board twisted around his little finger. Weren't they saying he was going to be working very hard planning for season 2015? Can't imagine there's much afl resources in San Fran

  Quote

Little is understood to have spoken directly to Dank in a bid to unravel what drugs were administered during the experimental program of late 2011 and 2012. Although Dank has previously stated he gave players the banned form of thymosin, he later changed his story.

The 34 players are now awaiting further evidence from ASADA before contemplating whether to fight the show-cause letters or negotiate the details around a potential six-month ban, with only a handful of missed games.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-ready-to-listen-to-asada-deal-offers-20140921-10k2ew.html#ixzz3DxWMbkSE

caro

bit late for little to try and find out now id have thought...

  On 21/09/2014 at 14:06, biggestred said:

bit late for little to try and find out now id have thought...

... especially when he's been telling us all along that they didn't take anything they shouldn't have.

  On 19/09/2014 at 05:02, Cards13 said:

I would not like to be in the gun of McDevitt

ASADA released a statement shortly after the judgment, saying the authority's new CEO, Ben McDevitt, felt validated and that the agency was "steadfastly ... committed" to unearthing the truth of what occurred at Essendon.

"Today's judgment vindicates Mr McDevitt's strong belief that the Act always contemplated ASADA working with sports to uphold clean competition.

"The only way to stay ahead of sophisticated doping regimes is to partner with sports; not exclude them from the process," the statement said.

"Three months ago ASADA CEO Ben McDevitt put formal allegations of possible anti-doping rule violations to 34 current and former Essendon players. These players still have a case to answer under the World Anti-Doping Code and Australia's National Anti-Doping scheme.

"Our aim has always been to expose what happened at Essendon in 2012 and we steadfastly remain committed to this."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-trumps-essendon-in-federal-court-battle-20140919-10jbok.html#ixzz3DjcRqxAb

My mate worked with him at the Feds. He said "Put it this way, i wouldn't want this guy investigating me."

Caroline Wilson's mail is that the 34 players served in June with show cause notices are now ready to entertain plea bargains with ASADA ~Essendon players ready to listen to ASADA deal offers

Such a move by the players affected would be very smart, but I would be gobsmacked if this revelation was correct:-

  Quote

The players were offered a deal from ASADA boss Ben McDevitt in June which would have led them to serve a suspension involving four home-and-away games and finals in 2014, returning for round one next season. That deal expired in July and was taken off the table.

This simply does not make any sense at all. When the show cause notices were served, it was reported that the players were offered a six month suspension deal which appeared extremely generous in view of the fact that the maximum penalty is 2 years. I don't recall any mention then of a four week plus finals ban (the Bombers were no certainties to make the finals in June) and, at the time, there were ten home-and-away games left in the season so the four game scenario simply wouldn't fit the six month suspension on offer.

The suggestion that an ASADA deal to the 34 players would entail an off season suspension or the loss of at most only four home-and-away games is either wishful thinking or the result of enormous political pressure on McDevitt from high above. Such an outcome would constitute a rewriting of the definitions of "no fault" and"significant assistance" and a massive reward for the Bombers' (admittedly expensive) strategy of delaying the ASADA investigation for the second half of the AFL season to buy a brilliant result for their players. The example set would come back to haunt ASADA and anti doping agencies the world over for many years to come.

Could it be that they just want the players to make an admission of guilt, which then gives WADA sweeping power to intervene and enforce longer penalties?

What I don't understand is if 34 players admit to being duped by their own team in a systematic and deliberate breech of WADA rules (which it would have to be for the players to have been duped), how can they expect to have a club to come back to after completing their bans?

Surely there'd be serious repercussions for the club which would far outweigh player sanctions?