Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Dees2014 2,377]

Good post. I agree that often a CEO can very influential, though a board has to accept the decisions it makes regardless. Also as another poster noted (sorry can't recall who) AD sits on the commission in some capacity. I had forgotten that and to be honest i'm not really sure what the parameters of his position is but it certainly blurs governance and management. I also agree that his performance review will not be as favorable as it has been previously and that the commission's faith in Ad will have taken a big hit.

I'm not sure i agree though that if infraction notices are served (with all the resulting financial pain) that this would force AD or any commissioners to resign. You said that AD could have implemented closer scrutiny on Essendon if he had have chosen to. Do you mean before it came to light eg by putting in controls about sports scientists and supplement programs (something he has acknowledged the AFL should have done)? Perhaps but i don't see this a failure of governance, perhaps poor management but not a sacking offfence. I can't see any failures of governance post it all coining out either. Maybe some poor calls by AD but again not sacking offences.

I dont think I said that the infraction notices and subsequent financial pain will force AD to resign. What I did say was that if this was to occur, then there would be a good case for the Commission to ask for his resignation, along with a few others. This is huge not only in Australian terms but globally. The AFL would be a laughing stock if they ignored those implications.

They won't. They are too savvy an Organisation for that.

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

Writing in the Age, sports lawyer, Darren Kane thinks that ASADA has its work cut out for it in proving a case against Essendon players.

The problem I have with his entire analysis is that he is examining it in the context of our own legal system while the anti-doping laws are dealt with differently because the AFL (and by extension it's players) gave jurisdiction over this area to another authority when it adopted the WADA Code. The party that determines guilt or otherwise is ASADA on a strict liability basis, the penalty is decided by the AFL and ASADA has the right to appeal a penalty to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

[Dees2014 2,377]

Writing in the Age, sports lawyer, Darren Kane thinks that ASADA has its work cut out for it in proving a case against Essendon players.

The problem I have with his entire analysis is that he is examining it in the context of our own legal system while the anti-doping laws are dealt with differently because the AFL (and by extension it's players) gave jurisdiction over this area to another authority when it adopted the WADA Code. The party that determines guilt or otherwise is ASADA on a strict liability basis, the penalty is decided by the AFL and ASADA has the right to appeal a penalty to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

Jack, totally agree. The article smacks for me of the same sort of legal hubris that has driven James Hird into the cul de sac he is now in. There is no end to the legal gravy train these guys are now on. They are under the delusion that legal technicalities will get these guys off.

It is in the legal profession's interests to persuade the Hirds of this world that they can be saved by legal technicalities. They will perpetrate these myths so long as they can demonstrate hope for the guilty parties, and that the million plus fees rivers of gold will continue well into the future.

ASADA will get them in the end, no matter how many tame lawyers write articles saying that it is all too hard for ASADA and they will all get off.

They won't. And the longer they resist, the more severe the penalties will be in the end.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I have been told that Hird has not put pen to paper for his so called contract extension and is now considered unlikely to coach again. Heard from a reliable source close to the club. Unfortunately cannot give name. Source also said that the club is set to "implode".

[Carrot Top 947]

I have been told that Hird has not put pen to paper for his so called contract extension and is now considered unlikely to coach again. Heard from a reliable source close to the club. Unfortunately cannot give name. Source also said that the club is set to "implode".

Essendon and Implode just fit so well together. I hope I hear them used in the same sentence more often this decade.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

I have been told that Hird has not put pen to paper for his so called contract extension and is now considered unlikely to coach again. Heard from a reliable source close to the club. Unfortunately cannot give name. Source also said that the club is set to "implode".

about time!!

[monoccular 17,432]

^^^^

"Like" button urgently needed for past three posts.......better still a "Love it" button.

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

Legal source told me that "implode" won't be the right choice of word once infraction notices start hitting the fan at Essendon.

Try "explode".

Lawyers are gearing for a big payday from the situation.

Another issue is the AFL sponsors or "partners" as they call themselves these days. Apparently, not all the partners are content to be involved any further with a competition that has issues".

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Also heard that the players are apparently gearing up their lawyers to begin precedings against the club once the infraction notices arrive. It was also suggested that Work Cover might be waiting for ASADA do do their thing before gorging themselves on the carcass. However, the person I was chatting to close to the club was speculating on that last bit, was their view rather than what they knew.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Legal source told me that "implode" won't be the right choice of word once infraction notices start hitting the fan at Essendon.

Try "explode".

Lawyers are gearing for a big payday from the situation.

Another issue is the AFL sponsors or "partners" as they call themselves these days. Apparently, not all the partners are content to be involved any further with a competition that has issues".

Sponsors did not want their money going towards Hird's lump sum. The club's marketing guy told the board that. He was sacked as a result. Hird is a cult figure, untouchable at bomberland.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Sponsors did not want their money going towards Hird's lump sum. The club's marketing guy told the board that. He was sacked as a result. Hird is a cult figure, untouchable at bomberland.

Not for long. Once this starts to unfold he will have about the same status as Lance Armstrong. Actually not a bad parallel. He was an incredibly revered figure, immensely successful and wealthy, incredibly self centered, but also fundamentally flawed by his own ego. Sound familiar?

Hird will never coach again after this, and will be driven out of the AFL in disgrace. Sponsors will not have a bar of him in the future once the infraction notices are delivered.

[Crompton's the man 659]

Sponsors did not want their money going towards Hird's lump sum. The club's marketing guy told the board that. He was sacked as a result. Hird is a cult figure, untouchable at bomberland.

Interesting, because as I'm reading all of this, it has occurred to me that the unreasoning and unquestioning adoration of JH has all the hallmarks of EFC having become a cult and it is simply not possible for the guru to have erred, and any who dare suggest otherwise are detestable enemies.

There have been many jokes over the years about football having become a religion, but I am beginning to think we are seeing it happen in front of our eyes.

I would like to think I'm wrong about this but the preparedness to gloss over huge chasms of misjudgment combined with the ghetto mentality of us against the world makes me wonder how far this could go and whether they are upping the ante and daring to bring down the whole shebang if an outcome acceptable to the EFC is not presented.

There's possibly not much to worry about because at every turn the AFL has behaved like Neville Chamberlain did in 1938 and I sincerely believe the outcome will in fact be for peace for our time (as long as we can keep those chappies happy)

[Dees2014 2,377]

We must remember the fate of Essendon and Hird is now out of the AFL's hands. WADA/ASADA will determine what comes next, and it won't be pretty. The AFL will have no control over this outcome

The World is watching and they will not be allowed to squib it.

[What 18,810]

The World is watching and they will not be allowed to squib it.

Lot of athletes have tweeted about it during the saga

The athletics community is watching it closer than anyone and there will be absolute carnage if Essendon players escape bans

[bing181 9,243]

The World is watching and they will not be allowed to squib it.

Can you just stop with this line unless you can back it up with something concrete I live overseas, and I can assure you, no-one outside Australia gives a damn about doping infringements in the AFL.

Meanwhile, I'm sure we're all on the edges of our seats wondering whether the Irish Tug-of-War federation has managed to clean up the sport there after 3 positives in 2012.

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

Can you just stop with this line unless you can back it up with something concrete I live overseas, and I can assure you, no-one outside Australia gives a damn about doping infringements in the AFL.

Meanwhile, I'm sure we're all on the edges of our seats wondering whether the Irish Tug-of-War federation has managed to clean up the sport there after 3 positives in 2012.

Bing, the subject might not be front page news elsewhere in the world but I can assure you that in the places that matter, our little pickle with the doping regimes of two clubs in two different football codes is definitely front and centre and if not handled properly, it could adversely affect us in terms of funding and the ability to attract new and major sporting events to this country.

If ASADA doesn't get it right and sportsmen get away with ingesting drugs on scales as wide as we've witnessed in both ARL and NRL, our position as a sporting nation will definitely be affected.

[Melbman2 226]

The party that determines guilt or otherwise is ASADA on a strict liability basis, the penalty is decided by the AFL and ASADA has the right to appeal a penalty to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

This is a very interesting point. It screams "deal" to me where the AFL attempts to minimise flac with its penalties by having them pre approved by ASADA so that there is no appeal while minimising the penalies as much as ASADA will allow.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Melbman2

[Dees2014 2,377]

Can you just stop with this line unless you can back it up with something concrete I live overseas, and I can assure you, no-one outside Australia gives a damn about doping infringements in the AFL.

Meanwhile, I'm sure we're all on the edges of our seats wondering whether the Irish Tug-of-War federation has managed to clean up the sport there after 3 positives in 2012.

I am talking about WADA and their associates, and as far as control of doping in sport that IS the world. My contacts in their Organisations (and in this case I'm not talking about ASADA - my sources are European) tell me the Australian situation after the press conference in Canberra earlier in the year and the subsequent discussions at the WADA international conference in South Africa in October is well and truly on their radar.

If you have better information, the best of luck to you.

[Dees2014 2,377]

This is a very interesting point. It screams "deal" to me where the AFL attempts to minimise flac with its penalties by having them pre approved by ASADA so that there is no appeal while minimising the penalies as much as ASADA will allow.

It might look like that, but the record of WADA in these matters internationally has been a single minded pursuit of the truth, at least under the John Fahey regime, irrespective of the sensitivities of local sporting bodies, or even their local affiliates.

I don't know of one instance where any local body has been allowed to "squib it", and the COAIS has had a very consistent record of mostly backing up the WADA position when it goes to appeal.

I don't believe there is any room for Essendon, the AFL, or even Hird himself (through his posse of expensive lawyers) to "do deals". The train has left the station for them I'm afraid.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Dees2014

[jnrmac 20,101]

Also heard that the players are apparently gearing up their lawyers to begin precedings against the club once the infraction notices arrive. It was also suggested that Work Cover might be waiting for ASADA do do their thing before gorging themselves on the carcass. However, the person I was chatting to close to the club was speculating on that last bit, was their view rather than what they knew.

If true its a disgrace. Ive said it before but if I was injecting my staff with illegal substances Work Cover would throw me in jail. The fact the haven't as far as we know investigated is a shocking part of this shameful episode.

The Directors should all be liable as would the case be in my workplace. Can't see why AFL is any different.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

If true its a disgrace. Ive said it before but if I was injecting my staff with illegal substances Work Cover would throw me in jail. The fact the haven't as far as we know investigated is a shocking part of this shameful episode.

The Directors should all be liable as would the case be in my workplace. Can't see why AFL is any different.

The implication I got was that Work Cover didn't know where to start with this and didn't have the appropriate resources or experience to tackle such a case on their own. They wanted ASADA to do most of the work which they could then use as evidence in their pursuit. The person I spoke to made a point of saying that this was his view, not what he knew as fact.

[Dees2014 2,377]

The implication I got was that Work Cover didn't know where to start with this and didn't have the appropriate resources or experience to tackle such a case on their own. They wanted ASADA to do most of the work which they could then use as evidence in their pursuit. The person I spoke to made a point of saying that this was his view, not what he knew as fact.

I'm a bit more cynical about this I'm afraid. In this town, allegiances to your football team seems to overcome common sense in many instances. Take St Kilda with the Milne / Montanga scandal. The investigating officer of the Victoria Police was a St Kilda supporter. Guess what happened? The case was quietly dropped until it was re- opened years later under a new Police Commissioner who wanted the laws to prevail (no doubt a Cllingwood supporter! Just kidding guys).

I wonder where the football allegiances of the Executice/Board of Workcover sit. It would be interesting to know.

The overall point though is this is why it is so important for a national boby like ASADA to be involved, and overseeing them an international boby like WADA where parochial interests can be over ridden by common sense.

I know a lot of people dispute this on here when I go on about this, and they seem to think little Australia is irrelevant to the rest of the world in these matters. Well get with it guys - whether we like it or not, Australia is a world leader when it comes to sports, and that includes drugs in sport, both the good and the bad.

We will not be allowed to let our sports off when it comes to governance in these matters. And rightly so.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

My dream is that ASADA call a press conference on Tuesday and announce all the infractions and that Hird has been banned for life

Merry [censored] Christmas you drug cheating scum

LOL You want so little for Xmas this year HH.

I was wishing for a Melbourne Premiership but I done that for the past 14 years so I think Santa hates Frogs!

Edited December 22, 2013 by DemonFrog

[TRIGON 4,783]

Yes, the world is watching...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/10529148/Sports-and-nations-still-in-denial-over-doping-are-the-real-scandal.html

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

Interesting stuff from Michael Warner in BackPageLead - Demetriou in the News Limited crosshairs