Jack Fitzpatrick

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,507]

Midfielders are generally pretty easy to find in the draft. So we should be able to add to Viney, Toumpas, M Jones, Kent (and maybe Taggert) in the upcoming draft. If we want to recruit a ready made midfielder from another club and we can't get him via free agency we need to accept that we will have to trade away one or more "good players"* or those with potential. I hate losing home grown talent. But in this instance it may be worth it.

*I just hope that another club sees Dunn, Sellar or Pedersen as "good players".

[McQueen 17,864]

For years we've had no competition for spots in our 22, as soon as we get some we want to trade blokes out. I'd be giving it at least another year before before I even considered it.

And any sensible person would like to see Clark fit and playing regularly too.

[mauriesy 6,842]

I just want to know why as soon as a player shows promise, supporters want to trade them, as though it's footy swap cards or something.

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

I just want to know why as soon as a player shows promise, supporters want to trade them, as though it's footy swap cards or something.

Because these are Melbourne supporters, we can't have anything good, imagine the hair shirts that would go to waste, and what would they do with their hands if they weren't wringing them?

[hardtack 10,127]

OK point taken..please accept my unreserved apologies.... Questions may have been better addressed to the email authours.. But, little difficult as I do not know him/them/her.. Maybe my message can be relayed on..??

Don't worry, some "hard working" journo will probably wander by and take it up, while claiming it as their own ;-)

[rpfc 27,599]

I just want to know why as soon as a player shows promise, supporters want to trade them, as though it's footy swap cards or something.

I have no problem with posters thinking about list management and selling on players when their value is high and their worth is not high.

Who here thinks Fitzpatrick is best 22 when Clark, Watts, Hogan, Dawes, and Gawn are fit?

Because these are Melbourne supporters, we can't have anything good, imagine the hair shirts that would go to waste, and what would they do with their hands if they weren't wringing them?

What are you talking about?

I am not fretting that players will leave, I am not worried about the health of players, this is not The Syndrome...

I want our club to be as ruthless as you said Jackson would not be earlier in the year.

We have the makings of a terrific forward line, but I will not sit on that and allow this opportunity to pass: we need a midfield to go with our forward line and excellent backline.

Try and diagnose me if you will.

Just get it right.

I am not a worrier. I am a sympathetic, ruthless pr*ck.

Edited July 11, 2013 by rpfc

[DemonWA 3,518]

I have no problem with posters thinking about list management and selling on players when their value is high and their worth is not high.

Who here thinks Fitzpatrick is best 22 when Clark, Watts, Hogan, Dawes, and Gawn are fit?

Clark & Gawn have proven themselves to be injury prone and therefore unreliable. Watts is a work in progress and i can still see him being a swing man when the situation calls for it. Hogan is yet to debut.

Nothing wrong with holding on to Fitzpatrick for another few years until we can confirm the others are going to offer us more than him.

I totally agree with maurie's post, its not dream team or trading cards! Lets see if Watts and Gawn re-sign before we go too far down the hypothetical trade scenarios!

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

I have no problem with posters thinking about list management and selling on players when their value is high and their worth is not high.

Who here thinks Fitzpatrick is best 22 when Clark, Watts, Hogan, Dawes, and Gawn are fit?

What are you talking about?

I am not fretting that players will leave, I am not worried about the health of players, this is not The Syndrome...

I want our club to be as ruthless as you said Jackson would not be earlier in the year.

We have the makings of a terrific forward line, but I will not sit on that and allow this opportunity to pass: we need a midfield to go with our forward line and excellent backline.

Try and diagnose me if you will.

Just get it right.

I am not a worrier. I am a sympathetic, ruthless [censored].

I think Fitzy is best 22, but then again my 22 would differ from a lot of others including yours and I know you don't like that happening.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I just want to know why as soon as a player shows promise, supporters want to trade them, as though it's footy swap cards or something.

Because we have lots of tall forwards but very few midfielders.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Theres a difference between having sufficient and by that players in reserve and having a glut. The day they can all get on the park this may be an issue.

Its a delicate balancing act for sure but I dont know we are quite at the point of being able to finesse things too much. Doesnt detract from the urgency of uprating the midfield but id call for caution in wholesale bastardisation of other areas of the list.

Some years ago we had an abundance of ruckmen White, Jolly and Jamar so we let Jolly go; they changed the rules made White ineffective, Jamar took years to come on to where we thought he would and all of a sudden we were poor in this area. I agree, you need to proceed with caution when you start to think you have too many good players in one area it sometimes doesn't work out the way you think it will.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I hope he continues to improve for the rest of the year, as to increase his trade value.

As mentioned in another thread, there are a number of teams who need tall forwards. That is something we have a lot of and whilst he shows good potential, I prefer Hogan, Clark and Dawes as our three main options.

I have no problem trading players, as most are commodities to me for the goal of team success, hover I wouldn't be in any hurry to trade Fitzpatrick, although you'd look at what is on offer for just about any player.

Gumby fills the role Stefan Martin was groomed for, although he'll be far better. Teams want a second ruck that can cause real damage in the forward-line, which is why Collingwood dumped Dawes and went for Lynch - which is presently a poor decision. I don't see Fitzpatrick as challenging Dawes or Hogan, as we don't want them to ruck. And if we don't have to ruck Clark, given his foot concerns, that's a bonus too.

I reckon there's a real role for a second ruck with Fitzpatrick's attributes.

EDIT: if he can play back he could be the perfect swingman in the Leigh Brown, or Roberts-Thomson mould. Ruck, forward with the odd cover down back.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[jnrmac 19,241]

Who here thinks Fitzpatrick is best 22 when Clark, Watts, Hogan, Dawes, and Gawn are fit?

I don't think we have had a game in the past 6 years that I can recall when we have had our 'best 22' on the park. Let me know when we do.....

So the arguments about Fitz are ridiculous.He is showing some form in a couple of games. Persevere -he may continue to improve. There's a thought

[olisik 4,060]

Fitzy for yarran. Put it on the table

[furious d 447]

I have no problem with posters thinking about list management and selling on players when their value is high and their worth is not high.

Who here thinks Fitzpatrick is best 22 when Clark, Watts, Hogan, Dawes, and Gawn are fit?

I couldn't say with any certainty that he won't be. That's the point, it's too early to make definitive calls just yet imo. As RobbieF said it doesn't always work out the way you think.

If Fitz can't crack the 22 next year because everyone else is fit and firing I'm confident he'll tear it up in the VFL like he has this year. I can't see his value going down if that's the case and we'd get a good trade for him next year.

I'm with BH though, I don't think he's competing for a spot with the other blokes, the second ruck resting forward is his for the taking, just needs to improve his ruck work.

[McQueen 17,864]

Fitzy for yarran. Put it on the table

Terlich > Yarran.

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Midfielders are generally pretty easy to find in the draft. So we should be able to add to Viney, Toumpas, M Jones, Kent (and maybe Taggert) in the upcoming draft. If we want to recruit a ready made midfielder from another club and we can't get him via free agency we need to accept that we will have to trade away one or more "good players"* or those with potential. I hate losing home grown talent. But in this instance it may be worth it.

*I just hope that another club sees Dunn, Sellar or Pedersen as "good players".

Dunn is given a job to do each week, and does that job usually very well. Playing deep in defence he will never be one of our best but he is beating his man most weeks under significant pressure due to massive inside 50 count. Further Dunn can play all positions outside of ruck which makes him a valuable utility and depth player should he lose his place. I don't think he should be considered as trade bate.

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

Dunn is given a job to do each week, and does that job usually very well. Playing deep in defence he will never be one of our best but he is beating his man most weeks under significant pressure due to massive inside 50 count. Further Dunn can play all positions outside of ruck which makes him a valuable utility and depth player should he lose his place. I don't think he should be considered as trade bate.

GNF, I am surprised you haven't been howled down already, nice post, agree, will wait to see other reactions though

[Satyriconhome 9,993]

Terlich > Yarran.

Now hopefully that's a joke

Fitzy for yarran. Put it on the table

You're not joking are you

[rpfc 27,599]

Sat - you are going to get one hell of a surprise when the list gets turned over again at the end of the year.

Not all of our players are very good. In fact, few of them are.

And McQueen was saying "Terlich is greater than Yarran" not whatever you thought he said. The symbol ">" means "greater than."

Edited July 11, 2013 by rpfc

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,507]

Dunn is given a job to do each week, and does that job usually very well. Playing deep in defence he will never be one of our best but he is beating his man most weeks under significant pressure due to massive inside 50 count. Further Dunn can play all positions outside of ruck which makes him a valuable utility and depth player should he lose his place. I don't think he should be considered as trade bate.

GNF, I am surprised you haven't been howled down already, nice post, agree, will wait to see other reactions though

I won't howl GNF down, but I don't agree that Dunn is particularly good or much value as a depth player (in my view the term "depth player" is just a synonym for "not very good player") - but if he were better than I believe him to be, perhaps that would make him excellent trade bait. If we want to trade for someone good, we will have to part with a good player or two or well-placed draft picks.

[rpfc 27,599]

Clark & Gawn have proven themselves to be injury prone and therefore unreliable. Watts is a work in progress and i can still see him being a swing man when the situation calls for it. Hogan is yet to debut.

Nothing wrong with holding on to Fitzpatrick for another few years until we can confirm the others are going to offer us more than him.

I totally agree with maurie's post, its not dream team or trading cards! Lets see if Watts and Gawn re-sign before we go too far down the hypothetical trade scenarios!

I can see how many playing think that banking on Clark coming back is foolhardy. I see 'banking' on Fitzpatrick to continue his development as the same.

I think there is a great deal of 'banking' going on in this thread.

[rpfc 27,599]

I don't think we have had a game in the past 6 years that I can recall when we have had our 'best 22' on the park. Let me know when we do.....

So the arguments about Fitz are ridiculous.He is showing some form in a couple of games. Persevere -he may continue to improve. There's a thought

I am not saying that we delist him. Options I would explore include moving a tall for a mid.

It's hardly revolutionary.

[DeeSpencer 23,344]

Dunn is given a job to do each week, and does that job usually very well. Playing deep in defence he will never be one of our best but he is beating his man most weeks under significant pressure due to massive inside 50 count. Further Dunn can play all positions outside of ruck which makes him a valuable utility and depth player should he lose his place. I don't think he should be considered as trade bate.

He's not trade bait because no other club would have this poser on their list. He's untradeable.

Against the bulldogs - He beat Cordy but I'm pretty sure any half decent backman could do that...and besides that he made no contribution with the ball.

Against Sydney - He played on a bunch of resting midfielders with the occasional stint on a tall and didn't impact the game at all.

Positional flexibility in AFL means very little. If you can move positions into the midfield during games thats great but the fact you can get dropped go back to the VFL and then get rebadged into a different role means very little.

Dunn's career (approx).

Started 2005 largely VFL

2006-7 3rd tall deep forward

2008-9 lead up forward

2010 - tagger

2011 - defensive forward/back up ruck in some games

Second half 2012 - running defender

2013 - negating tall defender

Does that list above not tell you all you need to know about Dunn. He is incapable of holding down a consistent spot despite having very good physical attributes. He's simply not up to it at AFL level.

[hardtack 10,127]

Dunn's career (approx).

Started 2005 largely VFL

2006-7 3rd tall deep forward

2008-9 lead up forward

2010 - tagger

2011 - defensive forward/back up ruck in some games

Second half 2012 - running defender

2013 - negating tall defender

Does that list above not tell you all you need to know about Dunn. He is incapable of holding down a consistent spot despite having very good physical attributes. He's simply not up to it at AFL level.

Actually, I would have thought that tells us more about the coaching than the player.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I have no problem with competition for spots, that is great.

But we don't have a midfield and an excess, even if it is only a percieved excess, should be utilised.

Good decisions need to be made.

good decisions would be to hang onto what we Know we have,,,, & try to buy & draft, what we need.