Jimmy Toumpas

[45HG 1,543]

When subbing him off, we should've claimed the concussion sub.

Kent comes on for 20 minutes and, barring injury, stays on.

Sneaky, I know, but just a little bending of the rules!

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

When subbing him off, we should've claimed the concussion sub.

Kent comes on for 20 minutes and, barring injury, stays on.

Sneaky, I know, but just a little bending of the rules!

You want to pay the fine from the AFL?

[Hannibal 5,814]

As I stated in another thread....Trengove got votes in the Sunday Age this morning......Does a lot of defensive work in the stopages....

Irrespective of the mind-boggling decision to award him votes, it's sad watching him play. He's little more than a park footballer. Struggles to get it, uses it poorly when he does, and spends his life chasing tail.

[dee-luded 2,959]

He did have seven tackles against Geelong, not such a bad effort.

I'll put your comment down to trolling.

.... and that shows his (toumpas) desire is there, even if his hardness needs growing. bennell, morton, & even davey, never liked actually tackling... even green to a point, as well. davey liked chasing & harassing, but not actually bringing them down. green just wasn't good at it, & many weren't from that Era. this Era is where bruise free started.

Edited July 21, 2013 by dee-luded

[timD 994]

Toumpas will become a decent AFL player, but already there are signs he's not going to become a gun AFL mid, which is what you want from a top 5 draft pick. Rarely have I seen a young top-performed junior seem so uncertain of himself and out of his depth. He's admitted that he's struggled to adjust to AFL footy. He's neat and will be far better as he matures and plays in a decent team, but I struggle to see any "star factor" with Toumpas. He's the type of player that will do well as a linkman in a chain of disposals, but I've seen nothing to suggest he can initiate play. The best AFL mids are the architects, they're the drivers that set up play and initiate proceedings, but Jimmy seems an over the top hand ball receive kind of guy, who then delivers it nicely.

Supporters will say, but he's only 19 and hasn't played much footy, etc. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Jimmy may become what we all hope, but the best young mids usually show what they'll become even when they starting out on their fledgling careers. I've seen enough star mids start out in my lifetime to at least have some early concerns regarding Toumpas and what he brings to the table.

I've seen him present well in defense and try to start or engineer play.

HOWEVER it is clear that he is a pretty emotional guy. It will take him time to stop feeling pressure and relax into the roll. I'd guess that we'll see a steady improvement for 1-3 years and then a marked improvement 4-6 years from now. Like Garland. The problem with emotional types is that they make decisions when 'emotional'. Too much emotion = not great decisions. Not necessarily evident as a junior because the environment = less demanding.

And yes, all of this is evident on testing and tests are made available to afl clubs post draft camp.

[timD 994]

I saw enough of Toumpas last year to know he can seriously play. My concern is his mental fragility. If he currently does't get a touch in the first 10 minutes he seems to mount pressure on himself and then just run around without purpose. Even his interview post Geelong game showed he was greatful to be out there rather than knowing he belongs like Viney, Wines interviews I have seen. He stated he was overawed by some of the Swans players whereas Viney just tries to kill whoever is in front of him. For this reason I see benefit to playing him through Casey until he believes his form deserves to see him on this stage. Once he gets his confidence right and a full preseason I have no doubt he will be a very good player.

THIS+++

The change = maturity. It will take time. He's got the physical/footy skill set. Needs the mental side. I'm very confident he'll get it.

[Little Richard 6,265]

No doubt Craig will have a good chat to Jimmy this week about the game and I'd trust Craig's influence on him to be very positive and encouraging. Choco would probably work wonders with him if he ended up at the club for next season.

The emotion that he showed after he had been subbed was good to an extent because it showed he cared but he can't show that emotion all the time or he'll be targeted on field (and of course on Demonland), so he has to work on that and get it right.

Absolutely no doubt about the ability, just has to believe in himself and build up his confidence.

[Deespicable 2,726]

Toumpas will become a decent AFL player, but already there are signs he's not going to become a gun AFL mid, which is what you want from a top 5 draft pick. Rarely have I seen a young top-performed junior seem so uncertain of himself and out of his depth. He's admitted that he's struggled to adjust to AFL footy. He's neat and will be far better as he matures and plays in a decent team, but I struggle to see any "star factor" with Toumpas. He's the type of player that will do well as a linkman in a chain of disposals, but I've seen nothing to suggest he can initiate play. The best AFL mids are the architects, they're the drivers that set up play and initiate proceedings, but Jimmy seems an over the top hand ball receive kind of guy, who then delivers it nicely.

Supporters will say, but he's only 19 and hasn't played much footy, etc. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Jimmy may become what we all hope, but the best young mids usually show what they'll become even when they starting out on their fledgling careers. I've seen enough star mids start out in my lifetime to at least have some early concerns regarding Toumpas and what he brings to the table.

Yes, agree with you he doesn't look like a star.

When he played well in 2011 SANFL finals he looked quick, but so far he's looked just a smidgeon faster than Trengove and Jordie.

He's got elite kicking skills and good vision, but I reckon his marking in a contest is abysmal as well.

I can't see him making it as a wingman or outside runner, but he has big hips and looks strong in a tackle, so he may have to become an inside player - which if that's the case means Ollie Wines should have been drafted before him.

Maybe his hip issues from last season slowed him down and with a pre-season of strength and speed work, he may find an extra yard.

I remember Glenn Lovett looked slow and useless in his first couple of seasons and then really developed as a smart linkman.

[low flying Robbo 979]

I watched the first quarter and a bit of the last while sneaking away from a family party and watching on the iPad, and I remember thinking at some stage that I hadn't noticed Toumpas. I see everyone saying he had a bad game, but what exactly was it? Not in the right spots? Couldn't make space?

[prymke19 42]

I watched the first quarter and a bit of the last while sneaking away from a family party and watching on the iPad, and I remember thinking at some stage that I hadn't noticed Toumpas. I see everyone saying he had a bad game, but what exactly was it? Not in the right spots? Couldn't make space?

Struggled to read the play and looked like he had no confidence. We've all had those types of games where we just can't get our hands on the ball. I'd put Him back to Casey for the rest of the year, he'll be back round 1 2014.

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Struggled to read the play and looked like he had no confidence. We've all had those types of games where we just can't get our hands on the ball. I'd put Him back to Casey for the rest of the year, he'll be back round 1 2014.

Yeah, it's not the end of the world, i'd be tempted to leave him in though, noone is beating down the door to get in and as long as craig sits him down and says it's okay, some very good players have done the same thing before i think he will be fine.

[dazzledavey36 54,997]

Everyone is talking about the emotions he showed whwn subbed. I didnt watch the game but can anyone tell me what sort of emotion and body language did he show?? Seems to be the talking point ATM

[monoccular 17,432]

Oh no!!!!

A kid in his first year has a bad game!!!

Quick, lets all pot him.

Flogs

Couldn't agree more

The kid had a shocker - who hasn't?

[Young Dee 1,303]

Don't worry the afl will pay it for us! .....jks

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Everyone is talking about the emotions he showed whwn subbed. I didnt watch the game but can anyone tell me what sort of emotion and body language did he show?? Seems to be the talking point ATM

He looked like he was about to burst into tears, certainly an emotional lad is Jim.

But, if I ever had a game like that, I'd probably be feeling the same.

From an observation point of view though, Toumpas shouldn't be playing AFL, he isn't up to it and needs to go back to Casey for the rest of the year.

There is little doubt that the kid has all the tools to make it further down the track in AFL, but at present he is a very long way away from being an AFL player.

Hopefully Craig sends him back to Casey and just let's Jimmy play without pressure and continue to improve his football.

One thing in my opinion that has worked against Toumpas this year is that he has a very weak core - probably due to his hip injury and limited pre-season.

So, next year we should see a much improved player, providing we can get a pre-season into him.

[olisik 4,060]

He was emotional about playing bad? I cant see a problem there.

What do people want? For players to be smiling after a bad game and having a joke?

[brey9186 102]

He was emotional about playing bad? I cant see a problem there.

What do people want? For players to be smiling after a bad game and having a joke?

Sylvia and co get bagged for this, now Jimmy bagged cos he upset at [censored] performance!!

Poker faces all day boys, only way to keep people happy

Maybe sculls had the right idea..

[jackaub 1,402]

THIS+++

The change = maturity. It will take time. He's got the physical/footy skill set. Needs the mental side. I'm very confident he'll get it.

Doesnt the mfc evaluate the mental side of a player when making a selection at the draft?

It seems to me to be a continuing problem at the club and amongst our playersor is the the club enviorement that effects players mentally

[timD 994]

Doesnt the mfc evaluate the mental side of a player when making a selection at the draft?

It seems to me to be a continuing problem at the club and amongst our playersor is the the club enviorement that effects players mentally

The simple answer is that I don't know. I know that certain tests are used and made available AFL-wide after draft camp. I have no idea what the MFC makes of the data, whether they mine it for more info etc. The other important point is that I have no evidence as to whether the data is a useful predictor of long-term performance - it might well be but that is a bit harder to find. Certainly there is nothing published.

The better question from my point of view if whether the MFC know what their environment is like and what types generally flourish under it?

[rpfc 28,534]

The simple answer is that I don't know. I know that certain tests are used and made available AFL-wide after draft camp. I have no idea what the MFC makes of the data, whether they mine it for more info etc. The other important point is that I have no evidence as to whether the data is a useful predictor of long-term performance - it might well be but that is a bit harder to find. Certainly there is nothing published.

The better question from my point of view if whether the MFC know what their environment is like and what types generally flourish under it?

Do you mean - do they know its terrible?

We have had this discussion before about how much weight is given to emotional and personality traits when recruiting teenagers. I think it leads to clubs letting a Darling go until Pick 26.

But away from that argument - I just feel as though the U/18 competition is further and further away from the rigours of AFL footy that Oliver Wines is the exception that proves the rule. He is a big boy with supreme confidence in his talent and his body.

I feel for Toumpas as he is asked to perform in an environment different to a Mayes or a Macrae. We don't have the talented bodies in the midfield that allow a young player to play their role and not much more. There is less easy footy for Toumpas, there is more responsibility.

I am not ready to judge his ceiling. Frankly, I gave Nathan Jones a ceiling and he smashed right through it and I am punch-drunk from the plumage and the experience.

Toumpas might or might not - but that question won't be answered for some time yet.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

With what Wines brings to the midfield, and what we lack, I am still a little upset we didn't draft Wines. What is this thing our recruiting guys have with drafting the kid with the silkiest skills over the kids that are more likely to have an immediate impact.

If it was up to half the posters on this forum to do our drafting, we wouldn't be in the midfield mire we are currently in. I would have chose Wines, and he and Viney together in that midfield would have created explosions. What do we have now? Jones, Viney and a mixed bag of NQR'S. Can we please look at a couple of in and under ball magnet midfield tough nuts this time around MFC.

[Little Richard 6,265]

With what Wines brings to the midfield, and what we lack, I am still a little upset we didn't draft Wines. What is this thing our recruiting guys have with drafting the kid with the silkiest skills over the kids that are more likely to have an immediate impact.

If it was up to half the posters on this forum to do our drafting, we wouldn't be in the midfield mire we are currently in. I would have chose Wines, and he and Viney together in that midfield would have created explosions. What do we have now? Jones, Viney and a mixed bag of NQR'S. Can we please look at a couple of in and under ball magnet midfield tough nuts this time around MFC.

Cos we're always planning for the future man, and the future never comes...

Nah but in all seriousness they drafted the guy who they believe will be the better player when it counts, not the guy who will slot right in and play well but will probably plateau fairly quickly in terms of ability.

We won't know for a few years yet if we made the right choice so people need to calm down and let Toump play.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

With what Wines brings to the midfield, and what we lack, I am still a little upset we didn't draft Wines. What is this thing our recruiting guys have with drafting the kid with the silkiest skills over the kids that are more likely to have an immediate impact.

If it was up to half the posters on this forum to do our drafting, we wouldn't be in the midfield mire we are currently in. I would have chose Wines, and he and Viney together in that midfield would have created explosions. What do we have now? Jones, Viney and a mixed bag of NQR'S. Can we please look at a couple of in and under ball magnet midfield tough nuts this time around MFC.

It's all about best available and it has to be. The problem with Predergast's drafting was that he went for these apparently skillful types in Blease, Strauss and Bennell (as our skills in 2008 were deplorable) and then the next year over corrected and went for Gysberts and Tapscott because they were meant to be hard ball winners and forgot best available.

Our midfield mire is a complete issue both with contested and uncontested ball. We certainly need another inside guy but say we got Wines last year and then all of a sudden this years draft was full of inside mids but didn't have anyone with outside class then you'd be disappointed. We have to give our (New) recruiters some faith. After his rising star first season where he drew comparisons to Joel Selwood everyone thought Rhys Palmer was a star and certainly if they were choosing between him or Chris Masten who was drafted higher everyone would've gone for Palmer - but now look where we are at.

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

With what Wines brings to the midfield, and what we lack, I am still a little upset we didn't draft Wines. What is this thing our recruiting guys have with drafting the kid with the silkiest skills over the kids that are more likely to have an immediate impact.

If it was up to half the posters on this forum to do our drafting, we wouldn't be in the midfield mire we are currently in. I would have chose Wines, and he and Viney together in that midfield would have created explosions. What do we have now? Jones, Viney and a mixed bag of NQR'S. Can we please look at a couple of in and under ball magnet midfield tough nuts this time around MFC.

you can kinda look at the pro's list and i think that makes the decision pretty easy

Toumpas:

*quick

*elite skills

*leader

*already played senior footy

*balanced out drafting viney well

*considered by many to be nearly on par with whitfield

*huge upside

*Big game player ( just about best on in the SANFL gf the year before drafted )

Wines

*tough inside mid

*solid skills ( not fantastic by any measure

*leader

*ready to go

* already had a more highly rated inside mid in Viney, plus N.jones

*hard to judge the upside of these blokes, he is already good but he might not get drastically better.

in summery imo we made the correct call, i think wines will be a very good player, but i think toumpas will be a better player in time, keep in mind wines is doing well in a much better midfield group, toumpas is in possibly the worst AFL team of all time so it's really unfair to say they are on level footing on that alone, but i would say the game toumpas played against Geelong was as good or better than anything Wines has produced this year.

anyways just my opinion

Edited July 24, 2013 by Demonfan26

[Hannibal 5,814]

I am not ready to judge his ceiling. Frankly, I gave Nathan Jones a ceiling and he smashed right through it and I am punch-drunk from the plumage and the experience.

That may be your ceiling. Jones has reached the level he always should have.