Robbie: I've seen worse

[Grapeviney 9,720]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/my-demons-were-even-worse-club-great-tells-the-players/story-fnca0u4y-1226614459791

Robbie was there on Saturday night, and reckons the Demons of days gone by have put in even worse efforts than the one we saw on the weekend.

Presumably, he was referring to the 190-point belting at the hands of Fitzroy in 1979. Did Flower play that day?

Also says it's not the time for knee-jerk reactions and supporters need to be patient.

It's worth pointing out that in 1986, the Dons handed us a 20-goal thrashing... we made the finals just 12 months later.

[tonatopia 278]

The fundamentals are still ok.

We have 26k odd members.

We are not in debt, although this is because of charity.

Our list is not too bad

We have a strong relationship with the MCC & AFL

We are not dying, we are just playing like shite.

[praha 11,240]

Oh, well that's OK then: a 140-point loss in our modern game where brand means everything wasn't as bad as losses in the '70s when players were earning $50 a game.

That's it: close it up folks. Everything's gonna be allllllllllrighttttttttt.

IMO better perspective is look at how North made the finals despite being flogged by 100+ points last season and also being belted a few other times.

Comparing the game today to how bad things were in the 70s is, again, apologist.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Cudi_420

[low down 21]

gday fellow sufferers - first time long time.

not sure why i've elected now to post after several years checking this site - also (finally) renewed my membership last week for some unknown reason. something about this current situation is bizarrely drawing me in.

i say the following with little confidence and more blind hope, but i think this will turn around. i know all the arguments - culture, Cam Schwab, game plan, etc - but this time i aint buying that there is something seriously wrong here. i just cant see it. we are relatively injury free, if a little underdone. our facilities are on par. our business is solid enough. there are (some) rumours of dissent, but thats probably pretty understandable given the hammerings of recent weeks. the midfield isnt amazing and needs to improve, but it does have running players who were identified for their skill and character, and rated highly because of it (i speak of trengove, viney, grimes, tapscott and jones in particular - all high picks). we have a solid forwardline and backline. we are not Geelong or Hawthorn, but there is no reason we cant be where brisbane, adelaide, north and (deep breath) essendon are.

it pains me to allow the same tired excuse of youth, confidence, and inexperience to wash - we have been hearing it for 7 years of [censored] - but in the current environment i wonder whether its finally true. there are other young teams, and few have played as poorly as what we saw on saturday night. but i am old enough to remember the woeful (and constantly criticised), underperforming and young Geelong and Hawthorn sides of the 2000s. look at some of the losses Geelong copped in 2006, the year before they won the flag by a record margin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Geelong_Football_Club_season). we aint geelong, but could this team of decorated junior footballers, now training their asses off, really continue to be so bad? maybe this week they were, but it cant and wont remain that way.

the side i saw on saturday night was awful. objectively, it was one of the least competitive efforts from a club - any club - i think i've seen. but we are not the first side to cop it - last year the side that beat us copped a 96 point hammering from carlton in Round 21 and a 94 point thumping from hawthorn in Round 18 - and we wont be the last. in my humble and hopeful view, we are a mid-range side that is utterly bereft of confidence and belief. and, as always, leadership. the bulldogs lost 12 of their last 13 last year when they lost belief. its the same quality that geelong has so much of, but it doesnt come through culture or any other bollocks - it comes from winning.

we play a winless and injury depleted WCE this weekend, at the G. we have a fully fit - if shattered - side, with Tappy coming off 6. we dont have a chance to win this game, but we have a chance to start building some belief. the following week against the Giants is a chance to build it further. things can turn around quickly - we just need a start.

feel free to shoot this down, but this time im with the club, not the media who want blood and not supporters who are (fairly) over it.

[mjt 640]

I respect the tulip, but those comments dont help.

Edited April 8, 2013 by mjt

[Mono 455]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/my-demons-were-even-worse-club-great-tells-the-players/story-fnca0u4y-1226614459791

............

Denham and Walsh even had a free kick at Clarke - 9 kicks, 1 goal (28 forward entries guys!).....oh and he's now a $800k a year player.

FFS Just make it up.

[praha 11,240]

gday fellow sufferers - first time long time.

not sure why i've elected now to post after several years checking this site - also (finally) renewed my membership last week for some unknown reason. something about this current situation is bizarrely drawing me in.

i say the following with little confidence and more blind hope, but i think this will turn around. i know all the arguments - culture, Cam Schwab, game plan, etc - but this time i aint buying that there is something seriously wrong here. i just cant see it. we are relatively injury free, if a little underdone. our facilities are on par. our business is solid enough. there are (some) rumours of dissent, but thats probably pretty understandable given the hammerings of recent weeks. the midfield isnt amazing and needs to improve, but it does have running players who were identified for their skill and character, and rated highly because of it (i speak of trengove, viney, grimes, tapscott and jones in particular - all high picks). we have a solid forwardline and backline. we are not Geelong or Hawthorn, but there is no reason we cant be where brisbane, adelaide, north and (deep breath) essendon are.

it pains me to allow the same tired excuse of youth, confidence, and inexperience to wash - we have been hearing it for 7 years of [censored] - but in the current environment i wonder whether its finally true. there are other young teams, and few have played as poorly as what we saw on saturday night. but i am old enough to remember the woeful (and constantly criticised), underperforming and young Geelong and Hawthorn sides of the 2000s. look at some of the losses Geelong copped in 2006, the year before they won the flag by a record margin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Geelong_Football_Club_season). we aint geelong, but could this team of decorated junior footballers, now training their asses off, really continue to be so bad? maybe this week they were, but it cant and wont remain that way.

the side i saw on saturday night was awful. objectively, it was one of the least competitive efforts from a club - any club - i think i've seen. but we are not the first side to cop it - last year the side that beat us copped a 96 point hammering from carlton in Round 21 and a 94 point thumping from hawthorn in Round 18 - and we wont be the last. in my humble and hopeful view, we are a mid-range side that is utterly bereft of confidence and belief. and, as always, leadership. the bulldogs lost 12 of their last 13 last year when they lost belief. its the same quality that geelong has so much of, but it doesnt come through culture or any other bollocks - it comes from winning.

we play a winless and injury depleted WCE this weekend, at the G. we have a fully fit - if shattered - side, with Tappy coming off 6. we dont have a chance to win this game, but we have a chance to start building some belief. the following week against the Giants is a chance to build it further. things can turn around quickly - we just need a start.

feel free to shoot this down, but this time im with the club, not the media who want blood and not supporters who are (fairly) over it.

I actually agree with you.

The reason I fail to feel sorry for these players is because I am almost certain it is a mind thing. I think it's all in their head. They need to eradicate that and part of that is on the administration and coaching team to assist them to make that transition, so no one should avoid scrutiny.

This team is not without talent. It is just grossly lacking confidence and a drive to win.

[DeeZee 7,394]

Whatever Robbie says goes with me......i wish he was in charge of this club.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

The fundamentals are still ok.

We have 26k odd members.

We are not in debt, although this is because of charity.

Our list is not too bad

We have a strong relationship with the MCC & AFL

We are not dying, we are just playing like shite.

Tonatopia, I agree with you on most of your post but query why you say we have a "strong relationship" with the AFL. I don't see it.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/my-demons-were-even-worse-club-great-tells-the-players/story-fnca0u4y-1226614459791

Robbie was there on Saturday night, and reckons the Demons of days gone by have put in even worse efforts than the one we saw on the weekend.

Presumably, he was referring to the 190-point belting at the hands of Fitzroy in 1979. Did Flower play that day?

Also says it's not the time for knee-jerk reactions and supporters need to be patient.

It's worth pointing out that in 1986, the Dons handed us a 20-goal thrashing... we made the finals just 12 months later.

I was there for the annihilation at "Arctic Park"

186 ranked below that, Geelong is a good side, Fitzroy was carp and the Dees were S**t.

We had some great coaches in the 70's. Skilton, Denis Jones what a joke. Then the messiah returned Ronald Dale himself. (5 more years of misery)

The only decent coach we have had since "Big Red" was "Swooper Northey"

He would not have given the pre match address that Neeld gave that is for sure.

I, like everyone are sick of the culture of the club. I thought I could see my way through to keep my membership going, but after this year, I think that will be it.

The culture has just progressively worsened. I will continue to silently barrack for Melbourne but that's it, enough is enough.

[waynewussell 5,747]

Cudi... I think Robbie was trying to add perspective, which I think he is well placed to provide. I believe he is right about that observation. For those who think this is the first time our club, or any other, has been faced with dire on-field issues... think again. The immediate challenge is how to get a better performance from the 22 blokes who take the field this week. That is where the combined effort should be directed, and I include the supporter group when I speak of the combination. I have nothing but contempt for those who think denegrating the current list is an answer for the lack of confidence being displayed at this time. From little things, big things grow. It is time for the rank and file to display the internal fortitude that is being demanded of the playing group. The media enjoys the spectacle of headless chooks!

[DeeZee 7,394]

Ive been to almost every match for the last 40 years, ive seen some thumpings,and it can turn around quickly.

Cant remember feeling this bad before though.

Its up to the playing group.

[waynewussell 5,747]

Cudi...

"The reason I fail to feel sorry for these players is because I am almost certain it is a mind thing. I think it's all in their head. They need to eradicate that and part of that is on the administration and coaching team to assist them to make that transition, so no one should avoid scrutiny.

This team is not without talent. It is just grossly lacking confidence and a drive to win."

... I totally agree

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

Growing up in the 60s and 70s, I thought our prospects were worse then than now. That's because football socialism (salary cap and drafts) gives the weak teams a chance. There was no such help back then. So the off field results back then may not have been as bad (although my mental scars suggest they were) but there was zero chance of improvement in a scheme where the rich got richer and the stronger just got stronger.

[rjay 24,928]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/my-demons-were-even-worse-club-great-tells-the-players/story-fnca0u4y-1226614459791

Robbie was there on Saturday night, and reckons the Demons of days gone by have put in even worse efforts than the one we saw on the weekend.

Presumably, he was referring to the 190-point belting at the hands of Fitzroy in 1979. Did Flower play that day?

Also says it's not the time for knee-jerk reactions and supporters need to be patient.

It's worth pointing out that in 1986, the Dons handed us a 20-goal thrashing... we made the finals just 12 months later.

Love 'Robbie' but he is not right about this. This team got belted by a good Fitzroy outfit who finished top 4 in that season but at least they showed some resolve the next week and beat Essendon.

This current team has a history of these performances going back a few years now and they have a history of not coming up after poor performances or for important games like start of season, win for Jim, show some spirit after Geelong....etc.etc.

There is no spirit in this club, sorry Rob this is no knee jerk reaction, we have been very patient and very forgiving.

[Dr. Mubutu 852]

Robbie didn't play that day, but you may notice the appearance of one G. Healy on the playing sheet.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/1979/061119790728.html

[Webber 10,468]

gday fellow sufferers - first time long time.

not sure why i've elected now to post after several years checking this site - also (finally) renewed my membership last week for some unknown reason. something about this current situation is bizarrely drawing me in.

i say the following with little confidence and more blind hope, but i think this will turn around. i know all the arguments - culture, Cam Schwab, game plan, etc - but this time i aint buying that there is something seriously wrong here. i just cant see it. we are relatively injury free, if a little underdone. our facilities are on par. our business is solid enough. there are (some) rumours of dissent, but thats probably pretty understandable given the hammerings of recent weeks. the midfield isnt amazing and needs to improve, but it does have running players who were identified for their skill and character, and rated highly because of it (i speak of trengove, viney, grimes, tapscott and jones in particular - all high picks). we have a solid forwardline and backline. we are not Geelong or Hawthorn, but there is no reason we cant be where brisbane, adelaide, north and (deep breath) essendon are.

it pains me to allow the same tired excuse of youth, confidence, and inexperience to wash - we have been hearing it for 7 years of [censored] - but in the current environment i wonder whether its finally true. there are other young teams, and few have played as poorly as what we saw on saturday night. but i am old enough to remember the woeful (and constantly criticised), underperforming and young Geelong and Hawthorn sides of the 2000s. look at some of the losses Geelong copped in 2006, the year before they won the flag by a record margin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Geelong_Football_Club_season). we aint geelong, but could this team of decorated junior footballers, now training their asses off, really continue to be so bad? maybe this week they were, but it cant and wont remain that way.

the side i saw on saturday night was awful. objectively, it was one of the least competitive efforts from a club - any club - i think i've seen. but we are not the first side to cop it - last year the side that beat us copped a 96 point hammering from carlton in Round 21 and a 94 point thumping from hawthorn in Round 18 - and we wont be the last. in my humble and hopeful view, we are a mid-range side that is utterly bereft of confidence and belief. and, as always, leadership. the bulldogs lost 12 of their last 13 last year when they lost belief. its the same quality that geelong has so much of, but it doesnt come through culture or any other bollocks - it comes from winning.

we play a winless and injury depleted WCE this weekend, at the G. we have a fully fit - if shattered - side, with Tappy coming off 6. we dont have a chance to win this game, but we have a chance to start building some belief. the following week against the Giants is a chance to build it further. things can turn around quickly - we just need a start.

feel free to shoot this down, but this time im with the club, not the media who want blood and not supporters who are (fairly) over it.

Well said lowdown. You're definitely going glass half full, but from everything we've been hearing from the club, and looking at the list objectively, this is a far more logical appraisal than the 'blow it all up' glass half empties on here and elsewhere....

[Whispering_Jack 30,118]

I wrote this for the site after 186:-

WE'VE BEEN THIS WAY BEFORE by Whispering Jack

Last week's 186 point defeat at Skilled Stadium was not as bad numerically as the clubs Round 17, 1979 loss at the hands of Fitzroy at Waverley. The margin in that game was 190 points but there are already arguments as to which was the worst performance.

Demonland poster Redleg was the Team Manager in 1979 under captain coach Carl Ditterich who had taken over the reins at the previous year's wooden spooner from Dennis Jones. He was also at Geelong on Saturday to see what was to become Dean Bailey's last as coach of the Melbourne Football Club.

Redleg believes that today's style of football with its zoning and presses is far less conducive to blowout results than it was back then. The current side is also far more talented than the one that took the field against the Lions on that day of records 32 years ago. He is gobsmacked that a side containing so many top draft picks and one that had the talent to be the core of a team that has won three times this year by around 15 goals could put in such a wretched performance.

Back in 1979 the club brought big Carl back for a second stint after he first crossed from St. Kilda under the controversial 10 year rule (the competition's forerunner to free agency). This time he was to be the playing coach. The club also recruited flamboyant Collingwood star Phil Carman along with Magpie Wayne Gordon, the three Elliott brothers from St. Kilda, Glen, Robert and Bruce, Stewart Gull from South Melbourne and Cameron Clayton from the Tigers. Among the promising youngsters introduced that year were Gerard Healy, Peter Giles and Tasmanian Tony Martyn. Much was expected from these players but they hardly delivered in 1979 - the team rose one place to finish 11th in a 12 team competition.

By Round 17 things had turned sour for the Demons who went into the game without Ditterich, Carman and the team's star player Robert Flower. The team for the game against the Lions was:

Backs L Fowler S Smith B Denny

Half backs C Clayton P Giles G Hutchison

Centreline A Martyn G Elliott P Seaton

Half forwards G Healy A Dullard R Elliott

Forwards M Byrne R Biffin P Thorne

Followers G Baker G Gaunt G Wells

19/20 J Durnan K Whitfort

Redleg recalls the game was an unmitigated disaster. Apart from missing those key players, the team lost one or two early with injury, the Lions seized the initiative and their momentum grew as the game went on. Nothing went right for the Demons and, as Fitzroy got on top of them, the players' heads dropped. They were trying hard but basically nothing worked. Changes were made throughout the game but the Lions were on a roll. It was a humbling experience for Redleg as team manager. The team lacked talent. There were a few who were past it and others who only got games because others were injured. Some of the better players were not playing and it told on the team but Redleg insists that they never once stopped trying.

The end result was Fitzroy 36.22.238 to Melbourne 6.12.48.

Goals Gaunt 2 Biffin Durnan Healy Thorne

Best Gaunt Fowler G Elliott Clayton Seaton Giles

It was a hollow feeling for the team manager as he entered the rooms after the loss. Ditterich was livid. One or two committee were there and that was about it. There were no supporters to console the players; they had long ago gone home.

"Carl told me in no uncertain terms that it was up to me to (expletive) talk to them, and he collected his gear and went home.

Redleg sat with the players. The mood was glum and nothing was said for about 15 minutes.

"A couple of them kicked their lockers. A few others showed some anger and then I just got up, told them to shower, then move on and put this behind them. I said I'd see them at training on Tuesday and that was it. No committee meetings, a bit of bad press and Carl was there at training as if nothing had happened."

On the Tuesday, Carl made no reference to the previous weekend's debacle. He had moved on, the players had moved on and all thoughts were focussed on the game against Essendon the following week at the MCG.

"Let's just beat those (expletive) pricks!"

And beat them, they did.

"There were a few changes, Carl and Robbie were back. 'Piggy' Walters was in at full forward. Steven Smith went to centre half forward and Peter Hamilton came in to full back. The vibe was positive, confidence was restored and the team won by 29 points with Piggy kicking nine goals, Smith and Wells, four each. The turnaround that day was amazing and Carl stayed at the end to address the players in the crowded rooms."

Redleg remains an optimist and believes Melbourne's result last week was an aberration and that the playing group, as it did back in 1979, has an enormous challenge to regain credibility in the eyes of their fans and the football world.

"I've seen the game's most massive turnaround in the space of a week - 219 points. I know it's possible because I've seen it before and I know what a tough taskmaster Todd Viney can be. Just like Carl, it's hard for anyone to look blokes like those in the eye if they don't put their heads down or go hard at the football.

[baysidedave 246]

Denham and Walsh even had a free kick at Clarke - 9 kicks, 1 goal (28 forward entries guys!).....oh and he's now a $800k a year player.

FFS Just make it up.

No surprise with Denham, he hates us bigtime, always has. If l saw him in person l'd punch him in the head and l mean that sincerly

[DemonWA 3,934]

Thanks for that WJ, provides a slight glimmer of hope.

If we win this weekend you'll find me in a gutter in southbank on sunday morning, completley blind and happy as larry

I wrote this for the site after 186:-

WE'VE BEEN THIS WAY BEFORE by Whispering Jack

[Grapeviney 9,720]

If we win this weekend you'll find me in a gutter in southbank on sunday morning, completley blind and happy as larry

oh, you're hanging out with ben cousins this weekend are you ?!!

[optimus_grimes 4]

oh, you're hanging out with ben cousins this weekend are you ?!!

Ah that's why I keep coming back... Keep smiling boys and girls. Can't get worse can it?

[DemonWA 3,934]

Cuz, Fletcher, Chick - we're all coming over

oh, you're hanging out with ben cousins this weekend are you ?!!

[Macca 16,969]

The worst thing you can ever do is compare mediocrity with mediocrity. You never look back and take any solace from past misery. If you're playing rubbish then you do something about it. Not sure how that can happen with the way this team is coached. It's virtually impossible.

We have no team work. None that I can see. These coaches prattle on about structures, processes, systems and all the other putrid buzz words but in old fashioned terms it's all about teamwork - we haven't got any of it and it's not going to suddenly reappear.

Our players are guarding grass a lot and when a team is this bad you have to play man on man football. What's even worse is that if a coaching crew need to be told this, then you've really got problems. Do they even know what the problem is? I doubt it. It's quite possible that the coaching staff have literally no idea how the team needs to be coached.

We are an exceptionally poorly coached team and things will not get any better until we see change. Or if Neeld can somehow start coaching a lot better. The players are totally confused, they're not playing for each other, they don't back each other up, they don't run for each other, they don't bring their teammates into the game and they are devoid of any confidence. Instead of playing selfless footy we're doing the opposite.

In other words, we don't play as a team and there is no teamwork. Under the current coaching group, it's been that way since round 1 last season. That's the brutal reality.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Macca

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,798]

Remember rounds 12 and 13 in 1998?

At half time on the MCG v. the Cats it was Melb 1.3 to Geel 15.3.

We got our first goal on the stroke of half time in perfect conditions. I remember shedding a quiet tear at half time facing up to sheer hopelessness. We went on to lose by 19 goals.

The next week, v. the Saints at the MCG, we lost by 14 goals.

We went on to come 4th after the home and away rounds, then won 2 Finals by 8 goals, including beating the premiers.

I remember feeling just as hopeless at the MCG that day against Geelong as I do now.

SO DON"T GIVE UP!!!!

(and don't boo our players)