The case for the defence

[Slartibartfast 17,297]

Much will depend on the game plan. Last year we asked kids to play man on man footy and kick it around the boundary. It was so easy to defend against as we only used one third of the ground and the bigger opposition just picked us off. Not only that but I think last year we saw the competition as a whole move away from the 2011 Collingwood game plan model and use the corridor significantly more.

Players like Nicholson and Macdonald are terrific competitors but turn the ball over in uncontested situations far too often. Dunn is a poor decision maker. If you're going to play those sort of players it's necessary to play boundary line footy because you can't afford midfield turnovers. But if we want to use all the ground we need good decision makers and good kicks coming out of defence. Watts will excel at this and players like Strauss and Terlich would be well ahead of Nicholson and Macdonald.

I think it's time we developed the offensive side of our game and gave the younger kids who don't have fully developed AFL body strength the chance to use their strengths as well as learn the defensive side of the game.

I'd favour Strauss and Terlich given that their form is good but I recognize the considerable strengths of players like Nicholson. It will be interesting to see how it develops over the season. I'm also a believer that Watts should play an outside midfield/quarterback role, perhaps similar to Goddard. Give him the ball in the midfield 20 times a game and our forwards will have a much easier time of it.

[Older demon 2,741]

During 2012 our backline was constantly under pressure

The ball was constantly delivered by the opposition midfielders who won way over half the centre clearances.

If we can win a higher rate of the centre clearances and keep the ball in our forward line longer

Then I believe our backline players will look a lot better.

IMO we have a good ( not great ) backline a little help from further a field will make them look a lot better than they did in 2012.

I believe that this hits the nail on the head and it all starts in the ruck. We consistently got slaughtered in the clearances at center bounces and throw ins and the issue to address is getting our hands on the footy first. I am concerned that our ruck division is an unknown and shaky, so while the midfield has great potential they may lack the strength of last year. Jordie, Jones and Sylvia even, will have to be the big bodies in the middle to compete or our backline will get opened up again. Mumford is so good at center clearances, the Hawk's rely on Lewis, Sewell and Mitchell to lock it. yet in early in the season they were getting carved up and conceding scores in the absence of a good ruckman. The Woods have Jolly feeding Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom and now Ball.

Jamar, Spencer and Gawn have enormous responsibility but with the latter two precious little experience. Of the other talls Fitzy is too raw and Mitch too valuable to risk in the ruck, Dawes wont do that role and Pederson is a little undersized against the big boys. It may not improve much without midfield support

Edited January 22, 2013 by Older demon

[old55 23,593]

Talk of Grimes, Blease and Tapscott in the backline is all very well - but the point is they're not training with that group now so that's not what Neeld is thinking (it can change - look at Tom McDonald last year) and he's had a year to get his thinking sorted out. There's 15 backline candidates without those 3.

[autocol 448]

Dunn is a poor decision maker.

Not with the ball, he isn't, and the statistics for it are provided in this post on the first page.

Sure, he carries on like a try-hard Hayden Ballantyne, but given the ball he makes good decisions and executes them well. He doesn't only kick to the first open man, he kicks to the right open man who will also have an option going forward.

Personally, I'm all aboard the Dunn train.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Positivity.......been to training quite a few times....

Tapscott and Blease are training with the forwards

Grimes with the midfield

When Neeld took over he inherited a squad and had to do a bit of patching......he now has the squad he wants.....

Added Gillies another gorilla to our already developing defence, we have cover for every defensive position or Neeld can play mix and match against any opposition forward set up

As for the ruck, go to training or read the reports, Spencer is coming on leaps and bounds, I stood next to him a couple of weeks ago, he is bloody ginourmous,but his running is something to watch, and I reckon his kicking is getting better and better each time I have seen him, rucking against Jamar every training session is teaching him so much....Fitzy is also a reasonable stop gap...until Gawn is ready.....he is not exactly small these days either

Edited January 22, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[monoccular 17,431]

Disagree BBO. To quote the AFL prospectus-remembering he went into defence after the bye (R12). =8th in the comp for rebound 50's, with 34% resulting in F50 entries - 3rd in the AFL. Ranked 64th for intercept possessions (in only 12 games in defence), with the team scoring 73 pts directly from his attacking chains - the 3rd most in the league (behund only Enright and Maxwell). Was direct with the ball and averaged 3rd most metres per kick of any player in the AFL with his retention rate (ie. not going to the opposition) well above the AFL average. And he also kicked 9.6.

I think he will become a regular.

Very interesting stats, and I am sure that I am not the only one who has missed this. IF he can keep his head, he certainly provided versatility in defence who can match up on a small or a medium, and provide good rebound options. It is up to Lynden if he becomes a regular and valuable member of our team.

Spot on 'old dee', I think we will find our backline will become one of the best if they can get some support from further up the field.

Good midfield support has several positives: fewer total and fewer non-pressured incursions by the enemy, and perhaps even more important more options for escape.

For too long we put up with what appeared to be a lazy (but maybe just inept, unfit and poorly drilled) midfield, and forwards for that matter, leaving the poor over pressured defenders without any way out, making them look stupid. It looks as if this will be no longer tolerated.

Bring it on.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Defenders live and die by midfield pressure. No pressure and it doesn't matter who the defender is the forward will be able to lead out and take easy marks on most occasions. Apply pressure around the midfield and the ball will mostly be bombed long to a contest and the defenders will have a easy spoil and the forward looks useless.

[Slartibartfast 17,297]

Not with the ball, he isn't, and the statistics for it are provided in this post on the first page.

Sure, he carries on like a try-hard Hayden Ballantyne, but given the ball he makes good decisions and executes them well. He doesn't only kick to the first open man, he kicks to the right open man who will also have an option going forward.

Personally, I'm all aboard the Dunn train.

Well you maybe right and he may have found it easier in the backline with a simpler job. As the OP says, there is plenty of competition for spots so he'll have to play well to keep his.

[H_T 3,047]

With Toumpas and Viney, we have focussed on getting some good inside midfielders in the draft. I am perplexed as to why everybody is discounting Grimes as part of our backline set-up and insisting that he be inserted into the midfield. in my view, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

You're perplexed? Grimes played some time in the midfield in 2012 and reports indicate he's training with the mids, not the backs. It's not so much an insistence or a discounting of Grimes in the backline, it's more likely a change and/or an evolving Grimes. Neeld looks to be wanting Grimes to spend more time through the middle.

[Macca 16,972]

With regards the training groups and in particular the 'defensive group' : - It's quite likely that things aren't set in stone and we've still got 3 months to go until our first real game. Watts was going to play forward last year (according to the coaching staff) and ended up primarily in the backline (via the wing). Jack may pinch hit in the forward line this season or he might even be tried again in the forward line for a sustained period of time to see if he can make a go of it.

For all we know, the groups may be there for any number of reasons. Some might be in certain groups to develop a more defensive mindset or develop more accountability skills. More than a few might get shunted around in the course of the pre-season. Neeld may be looking for flexibilty and adaptability in all our players. The groups could may well be a means to an end. We're coming from a fair way back and many on our list need to establish themselves as regular starters.

In any event. all the players in any given game will probably play forward and back (flood and the forward press)

[Deecisive 1,709]

I find it strange that we had such a poor year last year, recruited so well but most people are still picking all the same players from 2012 as our best defense for 2013. This years team should not be last years team with Dawes, Viney and Toumpas added to the mix. We need a more significant shakeup. I hope Neeld is not so sentimental when it comes time to pick the teams. The NAB cup will give us a chance to try most of these players out, all will be on notice that the best performers will be playing week 1. The pressure will then be on those playing for Casey to prove they are playing well enough to dislodge someone from the round 1 team. If Macdonald does not improve his kicking then he needs to be replaced, same with Frawley with both his decision making and lax approach at times. We cannot tolerate poor disposals, turnovers or poor decision making.

[old dee 23,792]

I find it strange that we had such a poor year last year, recruited so well but most people are still picking all the same players from 2012 as our best defense for 2013. This years team should not be last years team with Dawes, Viney and Toumpas added to the mix. We need a more significant shakeup. I hope Neeld is not so sentimental when it comes time to pick the teams. The NAB cup will give us a chance to try most of these players out, all will be on notice that the best performers will be playing week 1. The pressure will then be on those playing for Casey to prove they are playing well enough to dislodge someone from the round 1 team. If Macdonald does not improve his kicking then he needs to be replaced, same with Frawley with both his decision making and lax approach at times. We cannot tolerate poor disposals, turnovers or poor decision making.

On that basis Deecisive There are a few others in danger of playing a lot at Casey e.g. Bail and Mckenzie

[bing181 9,240]

I find it strange that we had such a poor year last year, recruited so well but most people are still picking all the same players from 2012 as our best defense for 2013. This years team should not be last years team with Dawes, Viney and Toumpas added to the mix. We need a more significant shakeup. I hope Neeld is not so sentimental when it comes time to pick the teams. The NAB cup will give us a chance to try most of these players out, all will be on notice that the best performers will be playing week 1. The pressure will then be on those playing for Casey to prove they are playing well enough to dislodge someone from the round 1 team. If Macdonald does not improve his kicking then he needs to be replaced, same with Frawley with both his decision making and lax approach at times. We cannot tolerate poor disposals, turnovers or poor decision making.

I don't know that our defense was our greatest shortcoming last year.

We were mostly killed in clearances, and once you lose those, it puts the defense under the hammer.

[Axis of Bob 11,829]

I think what Dunn does which is very important, and fairly unique in our back line, is he can move the ball by foot very quickly. By this I mean that he can kick the ball long while still being penetrating rather than lobbing the ball.

What we struggle with is moving the ball quickly from defence. The transition aspect from defence to attack. We often get stuck in defence because we don't take enough risks bringing the ball from defence.

The top teams all have a player that is aggressive from defence, either through aggressive running or penetrating kicking. Players like Heath and Rhyce Shaw, Birchall, Sucking and Guerra, Mattner etc. We don't really have anyone who is really aggressive from defence. Dunn is someone who can move the ball quickly and break a line through his kicking.

Who else do we have that can do that?

Nicholson is an aggressive runner and can break up the play. Unfortunately he is an awful kick.

Strauss is a penetrating kick and can move the ball quickly. But he's not a really aggressive runner. This may improve with fitness, though.

Watts has the ability, but is less direct as a player and it's not his natural style.

We have drafted some, like Terlich and Clisby, who we are yet to see.

I actually favour Nicholson at the moment for the small defender. Even though he has serious limitations, so does Rhyce Shaw. But the benefits he brings, like the ability to break a line from defence, are very hard to find. Hopefully we can find that with Terlich.

[rpfc 28,441]

Watts, Frawley, Dunn, Strauss, Garland, Tynan, McDonald, Nicholson, Gillies, Macdonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Terlich, Clisby ...

Frawley, Gillies, McDonald, Sellar, Garland, and Watts to take the talls and medium talls. Dunn, MacDonald, Nicholson, Tynan, Jetta, Strauss and Terlich to take the smalls. Take 3 or 4 of either but not both.

Depending on match-ups I would take Frawley, McDonald, Garland, and Watts, and Nicholson, Dunn, and Terlich.

I don't think Davis or Clisby will get a look in.

Grimes is not here and should stay in the midfield.

But defence is played from the forwardline to the backline and not the other way around so I hope we improve in our willingness to pressure and chase.

[old55 23,593]

Much will depend on the game plan. Last year we asked kids to play man on man footy and kick it around the boundary. It was so easy to defend against as we only used one third of the ground and the bigger opposition just picked us off. Not only that but I think last year we saw the competition as a whole move away from the 2011 Collingwood game plan model and use the corridor significantly more.

Players like Nicholson and Macdonald are terrific competitors but turn the ball over in uncontested situations far too often. Dunn is a poor decision maker. If you're going to play those sort of players it's necessary to play boundary line footy because you can't afford midfield turnovers. But if we want to use all the ground we need good decision makers and good kicks coming out of defence. Watts will excel at this and players like Strauss and Terlich would be well ahead of Nicholson and Macdonald.

I think it's time we developed the offensive side of our game and gave the younger kids who don't have fully developed AFL body strength the chance to use their strengths as well as learn the defensive side of the game.

I'd favour Strauss and Terlich given that their form is good but I recognize the considerable strengths of players like Nicholson. It will be interesting to see how it develops over the season. I'm also a believer that Watts should play an outside midfield/quarterback role, perhaps similar to Goddard. Give him the ball in the midfield 20 times a game and our forwards will have a much easier time of it.

The data showed the Blues ranked mid-table in boundary, wing and corridor-midfield ball movement and were ''tentative forward of centre, kicking backwards or laterally more often than any other team''.

That will change this season when the Blues embrace Malthouse's boundary-focused plan, which continued to be fine-tuned at training at Visy Park on Wednesday.

''He knows how the game should be played and how he wants it played,'' defender Jeremy Laidler said of his new coach.

''He is laying the law down. If you don't stick to those laws, you won't play. We will look to move the ball quickly.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/analysis-finds-blues-similar-to-2006-cats-20130123-2d7hy.html#ixzz2Iqj7d5yE

[dee-luded 2,959]

With Toumpas and Viney, we have focussed on getting some good inside midfielders in the draft. I am perplexed as to why everybody is discounting Grimes as part of our backline set-up and insisting that he be inserted into the midfield. in my view, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

the midfield has been broke, penniless for a long time, & needs Leadership going forward.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think it's time we developed the offensive side of our game and gave the younger kids who don't have fully developed AFL body strength the chance to use their strengths as well as learn the defensive side of the game.

I'm happy to continue to develop our defensive structures, with an emphasis on the rebounding run, & quality decision making/delivery from defence.

Happy to keep the lightweights at Casey to grow their games & bodies.

[dum dee dum 44]

Watching training on Wednesday I was very impressed with Gillies, I have a feeling he is heading the queue to be the third lock behind Frawley and McDonald. Frawley was fantastic, he was the backline General and in the drill where they were intent on moving the ball from the backline just about everything went through him. McDonald was also fantastic, he is a gun and easily our second lock in the backline.

But as the thread suggests the other four positions are open. In Wednesdays training Col Garland wasn't used in that backline third tall role, Gillies was and he was good, I'm locking him in.

Working the other way I agree Davis and Clisby are depth only, Tynan has good skills, runs well but looks a bit immature still so may struggle to get many games. Last Wednesday I reckon I would have included Terlich as he was great clearing long from the backline but this week he looked a bit more like a one trick pony and he may need to work on some aspects of his game before he gets a chance to break into the side.

So thats three in and four out, how many left? 8. 8 into 3. I think we'll get two extra defenders on the interchange, so 8 into 5. Hmmm, well I'll go the most versatile in Watts who can play further up the ground and Nicho, actually Nicho is a candidate to get re-invented, he has great stamina and someone suggested a run with role, his skills though are at times poor but as a stopper he could excell. And I like him. So in he goes.

I'll now go with the audience vote and include Dunn, lots of great arguments for his inclusion so in hegoes.

Now we're left with Garlo, Sellar, Macdonald and Jetta. Into two interchange spots. Hang on I'll be back I just need to ring a friend.

"Neeldy! Hows it going. Yes its me, remember, Dumdee. Just playing fantasy backline and... whats that, oh, sorry, never again, right..."

Aaah I choose D. Yes Eddie lock it in.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Watching training on Wednesday I was very impressed with Gillies, I have a feeling he is heading the queue to be the third lock behind Frawley and McDonald. Frawley was fantastic, he was the backline General and in the drill where they were intent on moving the ball from the backline just about everything went through him. McDonald was also fantastic, he is a gun and easily our second lock in the backline.

But as the thread suggests the other four positions are open. In Wednesdays training Col Garland wasn't used in that backline third tall role, Gillies was and he was good, I'm locking him in.

Working the other way I agree Davis and Clisby are depth only, Tynan has good skills, runs well but looks a bit immature still so may struggle to get many games. Last Wednesday I reckon I would have included Terlich as he was great clearing long from the backline but this week he looked a bit more like a one trick pony and he may need to work on some aspects of his game before he gets a chance to break into the side.

So thats three in and four out, how many left? 8. 8 into 3. I think we'll get two extra defenders on the interchange, so 8 into 5. Hmmm, well I'll go the most versatile in Watts who can play further up the ground and Nicho, actually Nicho is a candidate to get re-invented, he has great stamina and someone suggested a run with role, his skills though are at times poor but as a stopper he could excell. And I like him. So in he goes.

I'll now go with the audience vote and include Dunn, lots of great arguments for his inclusion so in hegoes.

Now we're left with Garlo, Sellar, Macdonald and Jetta. Into two interchange spots. Hang on I'll be back I just need to ring a friend.

"Neeldy! Hows it going. Yes its me, remember, Dumdee. Just playing fantasy backline and... whats that, oh, sorry, never again, right..."

Aaah I choose D. Yes Eddie lock it in.

thanks triple ddd.

nice writing.

It'll be interesting to see how the side shapes up after Rnd 6...

Have you seen much of Jetta? hows he looking in you view?

[old55 23,593]

So thats three in and four out, how many left? 8. 8 into 3. I think we'll get two extra defenders on the interchange, so 8 into 5.

I doubt interchange spots will be wasted on defenders who usually spend close to 100% TOG.

Although I do think DemonAndrew makes a good point about 7 defenders on the field:

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32574-the-case-for-the-defence/?p=687735

So there could be 7 slots to fill from the 15.

[dum dee dum 44]

Have you seen much of Jetta? hows he looking in you view?

Jetta looks great, he's having a good pre-season and has put his injury woes behind him (touch wood).

This has to be his year. As with many of them its now about opportunity and what they do with it. If he grabs his opportunity when it comes his way he can become a permanent fixture for years to come. I hope he does. His pre-season as with Nicho's would suggest they have the hunger required to be successful. My only concern is his role in the team, I'm not sure what it is yet, Hopefully Neeld can use him well and we'll all be happy.

[CBDees 3,167]

Jetta looks great, he's having a good pre-season and has put his injury woes behind him (touch wood).

This has to be his year. As with many of them its now about opportunity and what they do with it. If he grabs his opportunity when it comes his way he can become a permanent fixture for years to come. I hope he does. His pre-season as with Nicho's would suggest they have the hunger required to be successful. My only concern is his role in the team, I'm not sure what it is yet, Hopefully Neeld can use him well and we'll all be happy.

If Jetta can become another Matty Whelan then we have a full-house!