Dominic Barry

[rpfc 28,052]

Well, when I looked at the win/loss ratio and our percentage they looked a lot better under Bailey than Neeld.

BTW, just for reference the wins against WCE, Adelaide, Sydney and Freo were all against sides that finished in the eight last year. I'd settle for that now.

You're the one comparing the two - and tacitly arguing for Bailey to still be in charge. Which is just amazing after what happened in 2011.

I am saying that as bad as 2012 was, it isn't like we fell from grace; we fell from disgrace...

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

You're the one comparing the two - and tacitly arguing for Bailey to still be in charge. Which is just amazing after what happened in 2011.

I am saying that as bad as 2012 was, it isn't like we fell from grace; we fell from disgrace...

You have trouble with a lot of things I find. Ron said he's "benchmark" this year against the loss to Geelong of 186 points. Ron was comparing the two and I was saying it was an inappropriate comparison. (i've bolded the key words to try and help you)

Both years were terrible, 2012 was worse than 2011, or at least that's what the scoreboard said. Frankly I liked winning games, all 16 under Bailey in his last two years where he was trying to win and not "managing our list". Feeling good 8 times a year felt better than feeling good 4 times a year.

Not that either really felt good.

[CBDees 3,165]

Can we now return to the topic guys (which is Dom Barry)?

[The Chazz 4,077]

Can we now return to the topic guys (which is Dom Barry)?

He's skinny.

[McQueen 17,864]

He's skinny.

Rubbish. He's a brute.

[rpfc 28,052]

You have trouble with a lot of things I find.

Why don't you leave this crap at the door?

I always find the poster who can insult without being insulting gains more respect. I am very good at it. You should take note.

Not that either really felt good.

I'm glad we crossed this rubicon. We have regressed since 2010 and let's hope Neeld's New Way gets us somewhere.

Now let's get back to discussing whether the skilled stick figure will play 3 or 4 games in 2013...

[Ted Lasso 18,786]

I really like the look of Dom Barry, skinny lad but looks to have some real class and poise about him,

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

You have my vote RB

I have little idea if Neeld is good or not time will tell but he inherited a mess.

But anyone who know thinks that the Bailey era was anything less than a disaster should take off their blind fold.

After four years he had taken us to 186, the team in disaray, a list of mainly the wrong types to win games in the second decade of the 21st Century and fitness level to a situation where we could not play out the last quarter against any reasonable team.

Get over Bailey he was a poor choice that at best maintained our position as at the end of 2007.

Old dee - thanks. Apologies though - I just got back from work, only to realise that I'd accidentally deleted two paragraphs from my original post, without which I'm not sure it makes perfect sense.

[monoccular 17,328]

Squandered .... Spent

Is Wayne Swan on our Board?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

You have trouble with a lot of things I find. Ron said he's "benchmark" this year against the loss to Geelong of 186 points. Ron was comparing the two and I was saying it was an inappropriate comparison. (i've bolded the key words to try and help you)

Both years were terrible, 2012 was worse than 2011, or at least that's what the scoreboard said. Frankly I liked winning games, all 16 under Bailey in his last two years where he was trying to win and not "managing our list". Feeling good 8 times a year felt better than feeling good 4 times a year.

Not that either really felt good.

Actually Baghdad - that's not what I'm saying. Simplistic, albeit distorted, analysis from you once again. I can see it's a convenient approach for you to take, but it's not one founded in a sound methodology. Lazy stuff.

In fairness, I accidentally deleted two paragraphs from my original post, which I've since reinserted.

But I'll spell it out simply once again.

You cannot simply compare the results from 2011 and 2012 because it's not comparing 'like with like'. 2011 was a 'finals' year. 2012 was a 'completely rebuild and wholly transform the entire football department/player group' year.

The evidence reflects this.

1. 2011 - (Bailey's fourth year with Bailey's list) objectively speaking, a woeful year, which included some of the worst losses I've ever observed. Despite some big wins against flaky interstate teams, we got absolutely hammered by most decent sides, including suffering the worst loss of any AFL club in almost 30 years. At the commencement of the season, this was a 'finals' year - it was Bailey's fourth year at the helm, it was his list and the blue print was now for finals. We came 13th out of 17 teams.

2. 2012 - (Neeld's first year with Bailey's list) Neeld came into a very weak club which, through no fault of his own, was getting hammered from literally every angle: the 'lack of process' of his appointment was ridiculed, Jim Stynes passed away, he was accused of racism, senior players went feral, the 'tanking' debate (a remnant of the Bailey years, not his) was enlivened etc. He also inherited a bag of rotten fruit to deal with in terms of the list: it was not balanced, it lacked the requisite professionalism and fitness, there was a leadership vacuum, it lacked hardness, and the game plan was, in his view, all wrong - in short, it could not be relied upon to consistently win big games. None of this was his doing. Yet, he stated - I will change all of this - fundamentally, but it will take time. He then sought to turn everything on its head. Notwithstanding this, you seek to compare the results from 2011 against 2012. On any construction, that's completely ridiculous and as unsustainable as Bailey's game plan.

3. 2013 - (Neeld's first year with kind of Neeld's list) The season hasn't yet commenced, but Neeld has been ruthless with the structure of the list, the discipline and approach required of the players, the training regime, the leadership group, the culture of the group. This is obvious and it cannot be seriously contended otherwise. Whether it will work, who knows. But, the signs at this point are far more promising than previously - not necessarily for terrific results in 2013, but for improved performances in 2013 (relative to 2011), followed hopefully by improved ladder positions in 2014 and beyond. Why? Because Neeld has focussed on the underlying fundamentals.

So, will I be saying Neeld is a success this year if we consistently get belted by only 12 goals each week, rather than 30 goals as you say? Well, no. It's you that wants to take the '186 benchmark' to a wholly ridiculous end, such is your way.

I merely reference the 186 point loss on 30 July 2011 as indicia of a list/player group that was clearly in a hopeless state and, at that point in time, I literally could not see ANY light at the end of the tunnel. As at 1 Feb 2013, I no longer have that feeling - perhaps I'm deluded - but I suspect not. And I blame Neeld for making the much needed changes to get this list into a more decent state.

I don't mind if you disagree with this. In fact, I don't really give a stuff if you do. BUT I do mind if you misrepresent my position through, for instance, the inane act of pulling definitions of words off the internet and posting it as some kind of argument in response.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Rubbish. He's a brute.

And he has got big hands.

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

Actually Baghdad - that's not what I'm saying.

There must be a misunderstanding. You said the following.

And, relevantly, my optimism is bench marked against a 186 point loss that occurred on 30 July 2011. At no stage have I said we'd win the flag this year,

By benchmarking our performance this year against the loss to Geelong of 186 under Bailey I think you are comparing the two.

I've no desire or interest in debating Bailey's history v Neeld with you or anyone really because it's been done a thousand times and we're all pretty set in our opinions.

I was trying to make the point that comparing (benchmarking) our performance this year against the game at Geelong set a pretty low level and one that is not appropriate.

[rpfc 28,052]

What I don't like is the whitewashing of that day.

A 31 goal loss and the thing that is 'inappropriate' is not pointing out it is a statistical outlier?

That day wwas 'inappropriate.' An embarrassment of epic proportions.

We lost 4 games in 2010 by 41 points or more.

And then we lost 10 games by 41 points or more in 2011. But the capitulation against Geelong is an outlier?

To me, that seems to fit the capitualtion of a year that 2011 was. The Bailey era has to own that game.

[mauriesy 7,160]

The only use of a nadir is to show how absolute rock-bottom low you can go.

I'd rather benchmark against other successful teams than against any of our past performances.

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

What I don't like is the whitewashing of that day.

A 31 goal loss and the thing that is 'inappropriate' is not pointing out it is a statistical outlier?

That day wwas 'inappropriate.' An embarrassment of epic proportions.

We lost 4 games in 2010 by 41 points or more.

And then we lost 10 games by 41 points or more in 2011. But the capitulation against Geelong is an outlier?

To me, that seems to fit the capitualtion of a year that 2011 was. The Bailey era has to own that game.

So what is your point re benchmarking?

Of course the Bailey era owns that game as every team that plays owns every game it plays.

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

Of course the Bailey era owns that game

Actually the club owns that game from the Board down in a way that not every game is "owned" from the Board down.

[rpfc 28,052]

So what is your point re benchmarking?

Of course the Bailey era owns that game as every team that plays owns every game it plays.

Benchmarking?

I just wanted to point out, before we move back to discussing Barry's chances of getting a couple of games, how much we regressed after 2010. And just how pathetic we have been since then.

We lost 12 games by 41 points or more under Neeld in 2013.

Food for thought for Demons who wonder how we became so irrelevant.

[Josh 1,420]

We were terrible I know but let's not forget who handed out the thrashing. I can remember listening to the game on the radio from start to finish and after the finial siren I remember thinking one thing.

How ruthless Geelong were.

From the first bounce until the final siren the beat us down and kicked us while we huddled on the ground crying and didn't let up once. The reason I remember this is because one day I want us to be that ruthless. I want to be ten goals up at half time and come out even more hungry.

If you look at that game as a fan of football and not a fan of the demons the cats were amazing

[Demon Disciple 11,680]

We were terrible I know but let's not forget who handed out the thrashing. I can remember listening to the game on the radio from start to finish and after the finial siren I remember thinking one thing.

How ruthless Geelong were.

From the first bounce until the final siren the beat us down and kicked us while we huddled on the ground crying and didn't let up once. The reason I remember this is because one day I want us to be that ruthless. I want to be ten goals up at half time and come out even more hungry.

If you look at that game as a fan of football and not a fan of the demons the cats were amazing

The last time we were that ruthless and dominant for an entire game would have to be against Carlton back in 2004.................long, long time ago that was.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Dom Barry?

[monoccular 17,328]

Thread title Dom Barry

His name is mentioned in only 3 of the last 20 odd posts,

Hijacked thread - moderators not doing their jobs, headed for 186 result mods.

[old dee 23,503]

Thread title Dom Barry

His name is mentioned in only 3 of the last 20 odd posts,

Hijacked thread - moderators not doing their jobs, headed for 186 result mods.

There is not much to talk about with DB Monoccular

No Games, No Goals, no kicks , no hand passes, no marks,

pretty much nothing.

I am amazed it lasted as long as it did

[Moonshadow 17,554]

I regard your comments above as lazy in the extreme. You essentially seem to be saying that "the same cheerleaders reckon we'll be great each pre-season, and yet we're useless every year and this year will be no different". Not a particularly compelling approach IMO.

Speaking personally, my optimism is based on the changes to the list and the professional and disciplined approach that the new coaching department has implemented this pre-season (ie, it is based on some discernible evidence, not fanciful wish thinking).

And, relevantly, my optimism is bench marked against a 186 point loss that occurred on 30 July 2011. At no stage have I said we'd win the flag this year, or even make the finals - I just think we may field a team that is consistently competitive and that plays hard, accountable football this year. Given where we've come from, this is the source of some optimism for me.

So - rather than sit on the fence and adopt the flabby approach to this issue, which is tantamount to sitting on the sidelines and throwing spitballs, I'd be grateful if you would please provide clear reasons as to why this pre-season is simply no different to any other pre-season since 2006 and why our expectations shouldn't be adjusted accordingly.

Absent this (ie, some clear analysis as to why this pre-season is no different from others previously), I propose to disregard your comments as fairly baseless, negative claims that aren't rooted in evidence or anything else especially clever.

Here's a report on our pre-season to start with: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-01-29/offseason-report-how-the-dees-are-tracking

Cheers.

Thanks for putting your words into my mouth Ron.

I'll base my comments on the reality that we effectively finished bottom last year, similar to the last 5 years. We haven't achieved anything except a shuffle of the deck chairs. Wins and losses count infinitely more than preseason over-optimism. I think that defines what Neeld was referring to as the 'reality bus'. But keep drooling over preseason if you wish. I'll wait till round 8 or 10.

Cheers.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Moonshadow

[felixdacat 459]

I would love to see Barry get a few games this season, some of the training reports have really got me excited to see how he travels playing AFL footy.

[Whispering_Jack 29,240]

Did someone change the thread title?

Strangely, to an incorrect spelling of Dominic Barry's full name..?

Fixed.