AFL investigation

[sue 9,096]

No nitpicking at all, Sue. I just disagree that the journalist has some kind of vendetta, which was the accusation. Or what did you think the inference was when a poster questions a journalists motivation ?

We tanked. Plain and simple. Will it be easy to prove ? No. Should we fight it all the way ? Yes. Was Stynes pro tanking ? Of course.

You can try and come up with all the cute defences you like, but anyone with half a clue knows we tanked, but the good news is we'll vehemently defend the charges and the clubs honour. As we should.

Back to your persecution complexes...

1. As I said in my post. I felt JB was just expressing his anger. I wasn't commenting on motivations and vendettas. It feels like you do not read what people write but just assume from the name of the poster that you must oppose (and often ridicule) the post.

2. Did I say we hadn't tanked? No, I did not. I agree with what you wrote above on that. Maybe you should change your position then.

3. My reference to Stynes was to point out he was selectively quoted to make the case against the MFC look worse. Do you support journalists doing that? I'm sure you do not.

4. What's the basis of you saying I have a persecution complex given I did not state I agreed with the motivation the OP attributed to the journalist? I just suggested you should nit-pick what the journos write rather than what angry dee supporters write. If anything that would imply I did not agree with the OP.

You have just pigeon-holed me as a conspiracy theorist with a persecution complex just because I've had the audacity to disagree with some of your posts.

Gosh, I've just realised that you may see that as evidence of me having a persecution (by you) complex. ha ha.

[Slartibartfast 17,095]

I would actually have more respect for the AFL if they held their hands up and just said- "we aint got sh!t" This is worse than clutching at straws they are clutching at thin air, and it is embarrassing!

We don't know what the AFL has, we only know what the media has.

But I agree, if this is it we're home free.

[monoccular 17,407]

Cant help myself - Jay Clark just tweeted the same piece of HS footage on twitter with the following message

"Watch the faces of the Melbourne coaching staff when Ricky Petterd almost pinches the Dees the win over Richmond"

I tweeted back at him "by Jove - your right ! The smoking gun ! you've found it ! Go and collect your Walkley right now."

Geez!!!!!!!

He is obviously not a longstanding long-suffering MFC member.

Whatever year, whenever in the season, if we just hit the lead in the closing minutes of a game, of course we don't go overboard with celebrations. Something can go wrong, and in this case it did.

Maybe go back and grab a few shots of that Easter Island statue in the Pies box in a close game - does he crack a grin; no, often looks even more grim than ever.

IF this is the smoking gun, well, I hope the [censored] who wrote this article inhales!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Good call i reckon. There has been an uncomfortable degree of sexism and misogyny on DL in many of the (frequently quite personal) attacks on CW.

Do you really want to compare what this jerk has said to the accusations raised by Wilson?

I couldn't, and I'm sure most on here don't care about the sex of the journalist it's more the accusatory tone and the vile things she said, plus the outright lies she put out about us. Of course some of which she later retracted, although by that time the damage had been done.

[sue 9,096]

Jay Clarke should be careful about his tweets. DB etc al may have grounds to sue the fool.

I take that back. I hope he gets even more careless.

[Undeeterred 3,113]

I am shocked to know there are Demon supporters on here who are prepared to ROLL OVER & accept an AFL Punishment considering the evidence they have thrown at us (Via the Media of course)

If the MFC rolls over to these charges thus becoming the AFL Lap dog for the future, the MFC is really not worth supporting.

Do we think strongly we the MFC can defeat these charges?.........Yep.

We must fight this for as long as it takes...win respect of the population (potential members)

Yes it may cost us $$$ to begin with but a bigger membership will pay for that.

To Roll over to this garbage is to slowly die...

FIGHT THE POWER....great song btw.

You've been all for us 'copping our whack' for ages!

[Sir Why You Little 36,891]

You've been all for us 'copping our whack' for ages!

Absolutely i still am....But not on this evidence.

[rpfc 28,220]

We didn't tank.

If tanking has explicit actions that can be legislated against - we didn't tank.

The actions discussed are just everyday football occurrences unless you can prove motive.

Unless you have that - we didn't tank and all that tanking can be is the unequivocal action of telling players to underperform.

The rest is what teams do in losing seasons in a draft regulated sport.

There is some gumption for a few of you who think we should be punished because of 'the vibe' of the thing...

[beelzebub 23,311]

Your Honour, we are charged with Tanking by way of fumbling.

If I may , I would enter into evidence exhibit #TWS-1

Your honour this elegantly crafted piece of inflated leather is notorious for not behaving itself.

I would have it heard your honour that if this ball was bounced a 100 times there is no guarantee whatsoever that you would have a congruous and replicated result.

Suffice to say it rather has a mind of its own when it comes to interacting with either the ground its used upon or the players that use it.

I would put it to your learned self that fumbling is inevitable at times independent of skill and experience !!

[H_T 3,043]

We didn't tank.

Quite right.

Tanking doesn't include list management, player experimentation, player selection, injuries, reduced rotations (due to injury) or the odd skill error or clanger. We know that this is the AFL's definition, at least it is 'honorable' Andy's.

Unless people can prove intent/motive, or the AFL move the goalposts on their definition, talk to the hand.

The definition should remain narrow and concise, otherwise the AFL are asking for trouble. And Haddad would be wise to go back to....whatever.... it was.... he was doing.... (If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all - mum's advice).

[Cards13 9,117]

I might just take you up on that. I am an ex journo and write for Back Page Lead on occasion. May even run it by here if I get round to it - is that a wise thing to do, or will be subjected to endless editing?

Fire away wmth look forward to reading it with half truths and smudged edges of semi-fact like the current stories directed at us in these shenanigans.

[Slartibartfast 17,095]

Tanking doesn't include list management, player experimentation, player selection, injuries, reduced rotations (due to injury) or the odd skill error or clanger. We know that this is the AFL's definition, at least it is 'honorable' Andy's.

What about reducing our chances of winning using list management, selection and positional methodologies that were done with the motive of obtaining a PP?

Do you think we did that and is that tanking?

Do you think we compromised the draft?

[rjay 24,808]

60 pages now......

We might just make the magic number before this is over.

[H_T 3,043]

What about reducing our chances of winning using list management, selection and positional methodologies that were done with the motive of obtaining a PP?

Do you think we did that and is that tanking?

Do you think we compromised the draft?

Is there proof of motive in obtaining a PP? If there is, the answer is yes. I don't know that there is? Do you?

If there wasn't, the answer is no. (pretty certain I covered the motive/intent point in my previous post)

The subsequent questions cannot be answered without knowing the first. I'm pleased we both agree that we don't think they tanked.

[old55 23,307]

No nitpicking at all, Sue. I just disagree that the journalist has some kind of vendetta, which was the accusation. Or what did you think the inference was when a poster questions a journalists motivation ?

We tanked. Plain and simple. Will it be easy to prove ? No. Should we fight it all the way ? Yes. Was Stynes pro tanking ? Of course.

You can try and come up with all the cute defences you like, but anyone with half a clue knows we tanked, but the good news is we'll vehemently defend the charges and the clubs honour. As we should.

Back to your persecution complexes...

I recall that Carlton match at Etihad - for a long period we played a forward line consisting solely of Mark Jamar, Paul Johnson and Jake Spencer with Stef Martin rucking. Ironically Jamar ended up kicking 5 straight.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2009/031120090822.html

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I recall that Carlton match at Etihad - for a long period we played a forward line consisting solely of Mark Jamar, Paul Johnson and Jake Spencer with Stef Martin rucking. Ironically Jamar ended up kicking 5 straight.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2009/031120090822.html

We also had Brock McLean in the forward pocket too.

Jay Clark is attention seeking, weak-willed and prepared to engage in dirty tactics.

Has been from a young age when I used to beat up on him in footy & basketball.

His character hasn't changed.

Now that is funny. Jay Clark used to engage in dirty tactics but you used to beat up on him in footy and basketball. You are special. LOL

[wmth 69]

Fire away wmth look forward to reading it with half truths and smudged edges of semi-fact like the current stories directed at us in these shenanigans.

Things go quickly when you're fired up. I should've been doing my real job as well...

Media scratching the surface for Dees tanking evidence

I've just slapped it on my blog as a draft.

Need to read through it all and finish it off with another par, but want to send this on tomorrow. Feedback (some of it) welcome.

[dees189227 12,361]

Cant help myself - Jay Clark just tweeted the same piece of HS footage on twitter with the following message

"Watch the faces of the Melbourne coaching staff when Ricky Petterd almost pinches the Dees the win over Richmond"

I tweeted back at him "by Jove - your right ! The smoking gun ! you've found it ! Go and collect your Walkley right now."

I may write back look at the players on the ground after we lose. McDonald and Johnson arent exactly celebrating. Does everyone realise we were winning until the last 2nd. A melbourne player didnt give McMahon the ball.

That footage that the sun have on there site is stupid. The commentary is funny form the guy I mean. Is this the evidence. Paul Johnson gets to the ball 1st but it bounces the wrong way and brown waits behind it kicks a goal. Are they serious. Well now ive seen it all. Because Dean Bailey obviously instructed the ball to bounce the wrong way.

Why dont they put on there website brett ratten not manning up Travis johnstone.

Edited January 10, 2013 by dees189227

[daisycutter 29,596]

Things go quickly when you're fired up. I should've been doing my real job as well ...

Media scratching the surface for Dees tanking evidence

I've just slapped it on my blog as a draft.

Need to read through it all and finish it off with another par, but want to send this on tomorrow. Feedback (some of it) welcome.

good stuff wmth. i like it as it is

should see if a mainstream paper is interested to print it in the interest of balance (and maybe a few dolleros )

[beelzebub 23,311]

Things go quickly when you're fired up. I should've been doing my real job as well ...

Media scratching the surface for Dees tanking evidence

Need to read through it all and finish it off with another par, but want to send this on tomorrow. Feedback (some of it) welcome.

thumbs up from me

Strangely it has everything the big rags don't, objectivity,balance and essentially no agenda. It's just informative as a critique.

Nice work mate

[rpfc 28,220]

What about reducing our chances of winning using list management, selection and positional methodologies that were done with the motive of obtaining a PP?

Do you think we did that and is that tanking?

Do you think we compromised the draft?

The motive of what we did is to maximize the use of a losing season. Which is what all teams do.

You can't pick and choose when this is heinous.

You can't half murder someone. If those moves are ever NOT tanking, then we didn't tank when we used them.

We are, after all, talking about verifiable actions and not abstract notions of motives are we not?

Show me the legislatively punishable action an not some abstraction of guilt.

[sue 9,096]

Things go quickly when you're fired up. I should've been doing my real job as well ...

Media scratching the surface for Dees tanking evidence

Need to read through it all and finish it off with another par, but want to send this on tomorrow. Feedback (some of it) welcome.

A refreshing change. (There is a typo where you say 'why was Frawley in defense'. Presumably you mean "wasn't".)

[monoccular 17,407]

60 pages now......

so about 13 percent of the pages of "the indictment" document - and probably (from what has been leaked) about as much substance!

740 to go to keep up with the interrogators.

[wmth 69]

A refreshing change. (There is a typo where you say 'why was Frawley in defense'. Presumably you mean "wasn't".)

Indeed! Thanks for all the feedback. Haven't read through it all yet but will do this evening. Let you know how it goes

[Robot Devil 1,895]

so about 13 percent of the pages of "the indictment" document - and probably (from what has been leaked) about as much substance!

740 to go to keep up with the interrogators.

Haven't you heard? It's a 1000 page "dossier" now. The HUN and AGE are in an arms race to pump it up.

By the time this thing wraps up Peter Jackson will be able to film the trilogy of Tanking.