So Many Demons Elsewhere.....

[mauriesy 6,811]

I think that is interesting.

Here's a list of delisted and traded players 2006-2011 (retirees not included):

Daniel Bell

Shannon Motlop

Chris Johnson

Byron Pickett

Matthew Warnock

Michael Newton

Simon Buckley

Jace Bode

Isaac Weetra

Austin Wonaeamirri

Shane Valenti

Addam Maric

John Meesen

Tom McNamara

Paul Johnson

Kyle Cheney

Ryan Ferguson

Brad Miller

Simon Godfrey

Nick Smith

Nathan Carroll

Brock McLean

How many would you have kept?

What makes you think players this year will be any greater loss?

[McQueen 17,864]

Here's a list of delisted and traded players 2006-2011 (retirees not included):

Daniel Bell

Shannon Motlop

Chris Johnson

Byron Pickett

Matthew Warnock

Michael Newton

Simon Buckley

Jace Bode

Isaac Weetra

Austin Wonaeamirri

Shane Valenti

Addam Maric

John Meesen

Tom McNamara

Paul Johnson

Kyle Cheney

Ryan Ferguson

Brad Miller

Simon Godfrey

Nick Smith

Nathan Carroll

Brock McLean

How many would you have kept?

What makes you think players this year will be any greater loss?

You missed that clown who left for that mob up north... What was his name??

[jnrmac 19,057]

I see where you are coming from but the FD job is to identify talent and develop it.

This is the crux. We clearly haven't been able to develop it so we have brought in experience. Hopefully going fwd we will be able to develop our own...

[Hannibal 5,814]

Where did the great Lucas Cook end up ?

[old dee 22,926]

Bennell is now a lock to play in a premiership.

At East Perth I agree

[Moonshadow 16,238]

Bennell is now a lock to play in a premiership.

Shades of Steven Armstrong?

[old dee 22,926]

Shades of Steven Armstrong?

Moonshadow Bennel would struggle to carry Armstrong's boots

[Tassie Devil 28]

Former MFC top 10 pre-season draft pick NIck Gill (2000) has been announced as a marquee signing for the North Hobart Demons. This will be the North Hobart Demons last year in their traditional status as a club - one of the oldest in Tasmania but forced by AFL Tasmania into a merger.

[Tnc dee 15]

Sad to see rivers leave he wants to play finals and I get that good luck to him

Hope petterd goes well at the tigers

Moloney and Martin well be ok for brissy

As for the rest they wont get much game time and will be out of the system in a year or two

Shame about hannath today hope he goes ok at freo and gets back here when his contract is up seemed like the players loved having him there

[old dee 22,926]

Where did the great Lucas Cook end up ?

Manangatang

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm on record of being in total support of just about all list management decisions this year and whilst I disagree with some I'm please that Neeld has made these decisions and is backing his judgement. It's something I think didn't happen enough under Bailey.

Next year will be fascinating because we will be able to judge Neeld's judgement as we will have so many of our past players playing for other clubs. To my knowledge the following are in action:

Morton WC

Bennell WC

Gysberts NM

Martin Bris

Moloney Bris

Petterd Rich

Rivers Geel

It must almost be a record for a club to have so many players playing at other clubs in the following year.

My only major regret in that lot is Gysberts and to a lesser degree Rivers, but I'm glad he has a chance to play meaningful footy after 6 years of crud.

That's why there are garage sales, someone has something they don't need and someone else thinks it might have some value. We picked up Byrnes,Dawes Rodan and Pederson because their clubs didn't want them anymore so I guess we have to see who did better, us or the clubs that took our discards. Perhaps we can see how many games they play over the next 3 to 4 years. Remember also, we had to clear the decks so we could recruit those we did.

I have a feeling we will come out on top.

[DemonWA 3,442]

Yes exactly .

With Morton

at Claremont .

The 2afl clubs are aligned with wafl clubs now, won't be for claremont

[Slartibartfast 15,805]

You judge him on the list he is building.

The list he is building is as much a product of the players he lets go as the ones he brings in.

5 years is far too long. For me it starts in next year and we need to see very significant improvements.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I've always thought Bennell COULD be a very good player. He has class, just not hardness.

Was following his post season recruitment - doesn't surprise me to see him picked up by WCE.

Good luck to him.

[Demonsterative 1,955]

The list he is building is as much a product of the players he lets go as the ones he brings in.

5 years is far too long. For me it starts in next year and we need to see very significant improvements.

Different coaches will get different things out a list. Jones improved alot this year and some of that has to be accredited to the current coaching group. Mitch Clark kicked as many goals in a season from 11 games that the lions could only get out of him in a full season. The point being is that the players who have gone would not have benefitted from staying at MFC. If they go elsewhere and play a role in their new clubs, good luck to them. Maybe being dropped will give them the kick up the arse they needed.

Its not so black and white. Its very complex this game.

[skills32 229]

The thing that upsets me is that we basically got nothing for the whole lot.

What did you want for them?

There only value was a box of, odds and sods, at a garage sale. $5 the lot and throwout what you don't want.

You ever bought one?

[binman 38,449]

The list he is building is as much a product of the players he lets go as the ones he brings in.

5 years is far too long. For me it starts in next year and we need to see very significant improvements.

Yep we need to see improvement next year and the following to be able to say he has pulled the right rein in terms of player choice etc. I said 5 years because i thought it might get a rise out of you given if Neeld is still around in 5 years it will mean one of the most important decisions of the current board and CEO had been vindicated.

I was thinking about player development and really it's not what he will be judged on. WIns and losses is what he will be judged on. Of course player development and good recruiting is crucial but the KPI is number of wins not number of brownlow votes (of players we draft in or those we draft out). If Neeld gets a flag i don't think it would matter one bit if Bennel win a Brownlow, Pettard as Coleman and Morton is AA.

[Whispering_Jack 28,004]

When a club embarks on a massive clean up of its playing list, it's no surprise that some of those players will inevitably find themselves elsewhere and one or two might become good contributors in their new environments - it's part of today's football landscape.

Mark Neeld is putting his stamp on the team and the club has introduced six newcomers who have been at other clubs (counting Dean Terlich who was briefly on the Swans' rookie list). I care about what these blokes can add to the team far more than I do about those who are now involved with other clubs.

While I wish them well, they mean nothing more than the several hundred others on the various other AFL club lists and there are no regrets whatsoever about the FD's brave decision to clear the decks of many players who, for one reason or another, did not fit their vision for the future of the club.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I reckon they would have shipped Moloney in the unlikely event he wanted to stay

Yeah I agree with that, but I feel Neeld would have liked him to stay on our terms. It was pretty clear through the year that it was over between him and the MFC after failing to buy in after being dropped.

[beelzebub 22,225]

I care about what these blokes can add to the team far more than I do about those who are now involved with other clubs.

simple as this..

[H_T 2,941]

Fan, do you remember me calling for our list to be turned over back when Daniher was coach ? I made note about how few picks we'd had in the ND. Far less than other clubs over a 5 year period. It might be somewhere in the ether. It was about 6/7 years ago.

I'm rapt that we're finally turning the list over. There's not one player I regret losing. Not all of the new ones will make it, but Neeld is now starting to get his list.

One very big reason why there was much less developmental players (youth) in that time under the Daniher/Gardner watch - in an ever ageing list. Topping up with players in their twilight may have added something at that particular time over a very short period, but it also stifled turnover and development, which is significant. ND knew what was on the horizon - playing list wise; the financial position of the club - when he walked mid 2007. Ker Plonk. Into the too hard basket.

Hence the resultant downward spiral and capitulation since and compounding that was (and still is) the inability of the club to unearth star(s) or generate more hits than misses at the draft.

[Slartibartfast 15,805]

I care about what these blokes can add to the team far more than I do about those who are now involved with other clubs.

It's a simplistic view that will suit many. It avoids the harder question of trying to evaluate performance of key individuals in the club.

Winning football games among other things is the ability to identify and nurture talent. You don't get the pick of the list of draftees each year you only get your hands on a very small sample. You need to make the very most of the talent you lay your hands on.

I don't worry about how the discards go for their own sake but I am interested in their performance in as much as it allows an evaluation of Neeld as an identifier and developer of talent.

We are an under resourced club, we have to make every post a winner. Our recruiting department is not as well resourced as other clubs and the only way we will win is by having better intellectual property. A coach is judged on many things. His ability to lead and inspire, his gameplan, his tactical nous, his management of players, team selection and other things. One of the most important characteristics is his ability to get the best out of the talent at his disposal.

I understand it's Christmas, we've got a whole new bunch of presents under the tree and we hold great hopes for what's in them. It's fantastic there is such support for the club after such a shocking year. But that doesn't mean we should stop looking at ways to evaluate performance.

If in three years we finish 4th and Gysberts is a recognized gun mid and Morton and Bennell are good players in a winning GF team Neeld's decisions will be in question.

I don't think this will happen but the point I'm trying to make, amongst others, is we are in a rare position to judge seeing so many other clubs see a position for what we have discarded.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

One of the great questions of our time; what if?

There are of course many answers.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

It's a simplistic view that will suit many. It avoids the harder question of trying to evaluate performance of key individuals in the club.

Still missing the point.

The players mentioned that were relaeased/traded were not drafted under the Neeld regime, and they were "developed" largely by another FD. So your attempt to heap all of the responsibility on Neeld for thier failures is unfair and dare I say it again ..suspicious.

I don't care that the coach gave a crap opening speech at a dinner function.

I don't care if people believe that the method of his appointment was flawed and that there were quick executive decisions made.

I don't care if people get their nose out of joint at a authoritarian coaching group who want total control of the FD.

I don't care if that you will think this is an over simplification and will probably form another patronising response attempting to assert your intellectual dominance.

This is about the MFC fielding a decent and disciplined football side in the short term with the ambition of playing finals in the medium term.

I don't want a club lead by committee and hamstrung by politics.

NB: As for the first line in your OP it comes off as confusing and disingenuous.

Edited December 12, 2012 by dandeeman

[Slartibartfast 15,805]

This is about the MFC fielding a decent and disciplined football side in the short term with the ambition of playing finals in the medium term.

I don't want a club lead by committee and hamstrung by politics.

NB: As for the first line in your OP it comes off as confusing and disingenuous.

I want more. I want to win a flag and to do that we will need very good people in all positions particularly seeing we don't have the resources of many. Are you surprised that three of the richest clubs, Adelaide, Collingwood and WC always seem to be developing quickly or in finals with fewer early picks than us?

Neeld needs to be able to identify and develop the talent that was both left to him and he has selected. If he can't do that he fails an important coaching duty.

I don't care if you can't see this. I think others probably can.