The end of 'bruise free' football at the MFC

[stuie 7,374]

Is this the same Stuie who railed against almost every delisting, trade and gentle nudge into retirement as though you were losing a member of your own family?

Uhhhhh what? You would know that how exactly Mr Been A Member For 12 Days........

Have a read back through mate, the only one I was against was Gysberts, I was all for a heap of changes and have been on record as saying how happy I was with our trade period in general.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good lynch mob when someone is tagging the sunshine and lollipops line

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

Pick the skinny kid on the list now. And look at the blokes we currently have on the list. Muscle and power personified! To a very large extent this season we were no slouch in the clinches. The bruise free call will be long forgotten....ONLY if we beat the blues

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

Uhhhhh what? You would know that how exactly Mr Been A Member For 12 Days........

Have a read back through mate, the only one I was against was Gysberts, I was all for a heap of changes and have been on record as saying how happy I was with our trade period in general.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good lynch mob when someone is tagging the sunshine and lollipops line

Hit a nerve did I petal?

I was an avid reader before I started posting. One thing I most certainly do remember is you having kittens just about every time a player was criticized or mooted for trade.

Yet now you're "happy, very happy" with the list clean-out. Go figure.

[stuie 7,374]

Hit a nerve did I petal?

I was an avid reader before I started posting. One thing I most certainly do remember is you having kittens just about every time a player was criticized or mooted for trade.

Yet now you're "happy, very happy" with the list clean-out. Go figure.

Hahaha ohhh here comes the insults.... oh no

Ok, well you show me a few examples mate and we'll see.... Or are you just another no proof Caro?

Ps- Why don't you start a poll about it Range Rover.... (Welcome back AGAIN btw)

[P-man 13,366]

Ron, I am man enough to put my hand up and say that I had concerns of a few things that Neeld done throughout the last 12 months, none more so than making Trengove a co-captain. He even summed it up perfectly during the year when he commented about putting blind faith in players. Well, I refuse to put blind faith in Neeld. I want wins, followed by premierships. Yes, I acknowledge the fact that he had to make changes, and those changes were going to take time. I have patience, it is a prerequisite to barrack for the MFC, but he also has a timeframe where I expect improvement. This is the year (2013) where I expect it, and the following year, and the years after that.

I'm quite sure Neeld himself wouldn't want it any other way. He would want people questioning his decisions, that's not to say that he should be a puppet, but it's the sign of good management if you process the feedback you get. He's still learning, he will make mistakes, but it's what he learns from those mistakes that will decide if he is a good coach or not.

Until then, I'm on the fence, and will try not to get splinters in my arse. As long as the evidence keeps coming in, like it has over the past 6-8 weeks, I'll be happy to keep an open mind about his coaching ability. The thing that I'm the happiest about is that he has/helped remove players like Petterd, Rivers, Moloney, Green. I think this was 12 months too late (I know I'm likely to cop it for that comment), and have no doubts that Neeld should've made those decisions this time last year.

Well said. Champagne corks remain unpopped until we see what the team is actually capable of in 2013. I'm excited sure, we have done tremendously well in this trade period, but pats on the back all round are premature as far as the bottom line: RESULTS.

We were horrible this season, and that's putting it mildly. The only way is up.

Edited November 24, 2012 by P_Man

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

Hahaha ohhh here comes the insults.... oh no

Ok, well you show me a few examples mate and we'll see.... Or are you just another no proof Caro?

Ps- Why don't you start a poll about it Range Rover.... (Welcome back AGAIN btw)

It's all there in glorious print, Stu. No use denying it.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Round 17, 2010, Bailey's demons slaughtered the swans at the MCG, every man and his dog had us penned for a dominant era. Two years later we essentially finished last. What has transpired since then? Bailey is gone. Superstar recruits Morton, Scully and Jurrah no longer exist. Senior lynchpinchs Davey, Moloney, Bartram, McDonald, Rivers, Bruce and Green no longer exist. Hopefuls like Cook, Gysberts, Wonaeamirri, P Johnson, S Martin and Bennell no longer exist. The likes of Watts, Grimes and Trengove have not yet delivered fully as expected. Though I support everything they've done in this trade/draft period I fail to see how we are any closer to relevance since that day, in fact we are well behind the position we were in 2 seasons and 5 games ago.

[bing181 9,241]

in fact we are well behind the position we were in 2 seasons and 5 games ago.

I've always found this a fairly shallow argument myself.

That was a one off ... confirmed when we couldn't repeat it the following year, even though we had basically the same players ... who, BTW, also travelled down to Geelong one fateful day in July last year, if we really want to put the Sydney win in context. It's a bit like taking our Essendon win this year as being representative of where the team is at.

The rot started long before 2012, and was never going to be turned around (on-field) in one season.

[monoccular 17,431]

.....

That being said, this club ruined Brad Miller. It could do the same to Jack Viney!

Wait, what? How did the MFC ruin Miller? He was given about 2 years too many and did sweet FA at Richmond. A one dimensional forward who couldn't kick goals.

Jesus, talk about rewriting history, Miller was given every opportunity to succeed.

I never thought he was going to be a superstar but I think at the end of his time at the Dees, he had a lot of mongrel taken out of him. At the start of his career, he was willing to fly the flag and throw his weight around albeit with the odd suspension here and there. I believe ND saw him as a bit of a loose cannon and got him to take that aspect out of his game. We then ended up with the player that we had in his last 2-4 years instead of a hard nut who could actually protect his smaller team mates.

He was always going to be a third option forward at best but by the end, he was just an average third option forward for the reasons outlined above.

sure Miller changed from a bit if a mongrel to looking all at sea. But IMO a large part of that was tribunal related: he got rubbed out I think a couple of times for what at the time had been regarded as fair bumps. ND may well have encouraged him to "cool it" but he did get a lot of opportunity to prove himself.

And it is drawing one hell of a long bow to twist that around to say that two coaches and FDs later they could do the same to Jack Viney FCS!!! Miller lost his mojo for a number of reasons, and for absolute certainty MN wasn't one of them.

Amazing comment IMO.

[Miles from Nowhere 199]

Round 17, 2010, Bailey's demons slaughtered the swans at the MCG, every man and his dog had us penned for a dominant era. Two years later we essentially finished last. What has transpired since then? Bailey is gone. Superstar recruits Morton, Scully and Jurrah no longer exist. Senior lynchpinchs Davey, Moloney, Bartram, McDonald, Rivers, Bruce and Green no longer exist. Hopefuls like Cook, Gysberts, Wonaeamirri, P Johnson, S Martin and Bennell no longer exist. The likes of Watts, Grimes and Trengove have not yet delivered fully as expected. Though I support everything they've done in this trade/draft period I fail to see how we are any closer to relevance since that day, in fact we are well behind the position we were in 2 seasons and 5 games ago.

Every man and his dog were wrong. You may have been one of them, but I admit to being mystified leaving the MCG that day with why that quality of football couldn't be regularly reproduced. But if you thought so...

Your "superstar" recruits include Jurrah, the pre season draft pick? Again expectations?

"Senior lynchpins" who had or subsequently produced what? Not a key position player among them - and Davey, admitted under-performer, is not actually gone.

Your "hopefuls" include Cook - you were hopeful he'd be drafted in a couple of months?

Two of your short deliverers are co-captains - but the word "yet" is an escape. And if you don't believe that 2012 Watts is an improvement on the 2010 version...?

As an aside the Brownlow 3-2-1 for the Swans game were Sylvia, Davey & Frawley.

And if the team "essentially finished last", where did your "superstar recruit Scully" go?

Finally, you opine we are "well behind" where we were two seasons and five games ago. One swallow doesn't make a summer. Unrealistic expectations but as you allow, this has been a worthy draft period.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I've always found this a fairly shallow argument myself.

That was a one off ...

you must be kidding me

we won 8.5 games that year

we finsihed 2.5 wins outside the eight

we drew and lost by a point to the eventual premiers

we smashed Sydney by 73 and Brisbane and Richmond by 50 and 55

our worst losses were 9 goals, to the Hawks and Cats at the Cattery

there is a reason most football people expected us to play finals in 2011

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Every man and his dog were wrong. You may have been one of them, but I admit to being mystified leaving the MCG that day with why that quality of football couldn't be regularly reproduced. But if you thought so...

please don't bother, you or anyone else for that matter. I no longer believe in Santa Claus, and I don't believe there is a single supporter who left the G that day with anything but big expectations. FCS I remember the drive home, the post match radio talk was all about how many flags we would win and when.

all your other points have responses so obvious I can't be bothered, you know what they are anyway

[Demon Forever 219]

Ron, I am man enough to put my hand up and say that I had concerns of a few things that Neeld done throughout the last 12 months, none more so than making Trengove a co-captain. He even summed it up perfectly during the year when he commented about putting blind faith in players. Well, I refuse to put blind faith in Neeld. I want wins, followed by premierships. Yes, I acknowledge the fact that he had to make changes, and those changes were going to take time. I have patience, it is a prerequisite to barrack for the MFC, but he also has a timeframe where I expect improvement. This is the year (2013) where I expect it, and the following year, and the years after that.

I'm quite sure Neeld himself wouldn't want it any other way. He would want people questioning his decisions, that's not to say that he should be a puppet, but it's the sign of good management if you process the feedback you get. He's still learning, he will make mistakes, but it's what he learns from those mistakes that will decide if he is a good coach or not.

Until then, I'm on the fence, and will try not to get splinters in my arse. As long as the evidence keeps coming in, like it has over the past 6-8 weeks, I'll be happy to keep an open mind about his coaching ability. The thing that I'm the happiest about is that he has/helped remove players like Petterd, Rivers, Moloney, Green. I think this was 12 months too late (I know I'm likely to cop it for that comment), and have no doubts that Neeld should've made those decisions this time last year.

"The thing that I'm the happiest about is that he has/helped remove players like Petterd, Rivers, Moloney, Green. I think this was 12 months too late (I know I'm likely to cop it for that comment), and have no doubts that Neeld should've made those decisions this time last year."

So you wanted him to come in and delist players that even he admitted to not knowing well? Yeah, that's a great move.

[DeeVoted 583]

If I can highjack this to back on topic.

When loud mouth Robinson made that comment, and it went viral.

At the time ... (well I cant repeat what I said the whole sentence would be censored out).

Now I am glad he said it.it needed to be made known. We are soft?, far from it. We are guilty of not putting pressure on

the opposition and making it hard to get a possession, Yes we were.

Is the end of playing "bruise free football" over? .not yet,but then has been a huge shift into righting it.

I have been following this thread ,having a chuckle, nodding in agreement and shaking my head throughout.

Lets take a constructive look and break down the issues.

1st: Fitness levels .....

have been terrible (under Bailey, we thought we were travelling ok)

Mission and Co are addressing their fitness, to get it somewhere where it needs to be to perform where Neeld

wants the players to be able to play the type of game HE wants.

You cant expect to be able to chase, backup or run to position,if you havent got the fitness base.Anyone who has played

any form of sport will know,if the legs go, the will remains, but its not phsyically possible.

Our fitness is being addressed. I expect a big improvement now

2nd: The skills

they are there, we have seen it (in glimpses) IF the fitness drops off,so does the skill, or the penerating kick

fatigue makes it look worse and it seems they dont possess any, or lack thereof.

Confidence is another factor, when it gets better, suddenly everything falls into place.

3rd: A game breaker

We dont have, havent had one for awhile, someone to stand up to give guidance, to show the way, to give a spark when its needed.

But we do have a team, if we play as a team, we will start winning more games.Give us a game breaker or two, we can start talking finals.

As for loudmouth, lets take a leaf from the West Indies cricket team from the 70s -80s ,then Aust followed suit.....

Thats target the opposition game makers,shut down their best, one at a time,as we improve,we can takeout 2 or 3

whatever it takes during a game.We dont have the cattle,to shut down all the top team match winners every game.

This will come over time, then they we be more worried about shutting us down than us stopping them.

It will come.Bit by bit improvements will be made. Their roles will become 2nd nature.

IT will happen ,slowly, we wont notice it happening, it wont standout like a Howie speccie but it will slowly evolve.

A good start ..lets single out Carlton (as an example). Just a couple of players only need to remind Robinson about his comments,and just point out to him. to watch his back, and every chance they get, let him know they mean business.(wont take much to put him off his game) The same applies to every other team we play, make it known about our intentions,should anyone else start taking cheaps shots. We have some big lads in the team now, more than capable, For now its about concentrating on fitness,and playing as a team, and getting the basics right.

The end of bruise free footy?.... not yet. The end is in sight. Nobody could expect a bunch of underdone kids to keep up with seasoned players. With the influx of this years drafts, we can expect a bigger effort.

edit spelling

Edited November 25, 2012 by Deevoted

[Grimseyisgod 378]

am i a bad person.

I just want to see Melbourne physically batter other teams, i want to be a dirty team. I want us to be rough, add extra to tackles.

We have been a soft team the whole time, we need grunt, anger.

I love Tappy and what he did queens birthday highlighted he is a grunt player.

I dont want too see us hurting people, just grunt players.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

am i a bad person.

I just want to see Melbourne physically batter other teams, i want to be a dirty team. I want us to be rough, add extra to tackles.

We have been a soft team the whole time, we need grunt, anger.

I love Tappy and what he did queens birthday highlighted he is a grunt player.

I dont want too see us hurting people, just grunt players.

whatever it takes..

[dee-luded 2,959]

am i a bad person.

I just want to see Melbourne physically batter other teams, i want to be a dirty team. I want us to be rough, add extra to tackles.

We have been a soft team the whole time, we need grunt, anger.

I love Tappy and what he did queens birthday highlighted he is a grunt player.

I dont want too see us hurting people, just grunt players.

If your correct, then I also am a bad person.

I want us to Hurt the opposition, hard.

But then again, balls grinter was a bad person, martin Pike was a bad person, the fidge boys must have been bad people, Strawbs, mumbles.

Our missing premierships throughout an era of bad ass footballers, has a lot to do with not being bad enough.

[daisycutter 29,616]

If your correct, then I also am a bad person.

I want us to Hurt the opposition, hard.

Could this be dee-luded in real life?

[Grimseyisgod 378]

If your correct, then I also am a bad person.

I want us to Hurt the opposition, hard.

But then again, balls grinter was a bad person, martin Pike was a bad person, the fidge boys must have been bad people, Strawbs, mumbles.

Our missing premierships throughout an era of bad ass footballers, has a lot to do with not being bad enough.

Yes, i dont care about the reputation.

Better to be feared

[McQueen 17,864]

I just bumped into Todd Viney this morning at Perth airport as I was seeing some family off.

Shook his hand and congratulated him on his efforts with the recruiting.

Don't know why he was over here.

Go Dee's.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I just bumped into Todd Viney this morning at Perth airport as I was seeing some family off.

Shook his hand and congratulated him on his efforts with the recruiting.

Don't know why he was over here.

Go Dee's.

Dean Kent maybe?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

you must be kidding me

we won 8.5 games that year

we finsihed 2.5 wins outside the eight

we drew and lost by a point to the eventual premiers

we smashed Sydney by 73 and Brisbane and Richmond by 50 and 55

our worst losses were 9 goals, to the Hawks and Cats at the Cattery

there is a reason most football people expected us to play finals in 2011

There are lots of sides over the years that have won 8.5 or more games in a year but they were still crap and the following year were still crap or worse. I thought it was only Richmond supporters that got sucked in to believing that finishing just out of the 8 one year guaranteed you a finals spot the next.

Of course we could be happy if we won 8.5 games again the following year and the next and the next, or we could do something about the side and get rid of the players that were happy with the 8.5 wins and get some in that weren't.

What do you reckon Stakka; are you happy to win 8.5 a year or do you want to aim for the big time?

[DeeVoted 583]

Dean Kent maybe?

That was my 1st thought too.

But then again,wouldnt he just jump into a phonebox, slip the cape on,then make his own way down here?

[jnrmac 20,094]

I just bumped into Todd Viney this morning at Perth airport as I was seeing some family off.

Shook his hand and congratulated him on his efforts with the recruiting.

Don't know why he was over here.

Go Dee's.

Dean Kent is from WA I think.....

Maybe meeting the family etc..

[jnrmac 20,094]

I've always found this a fairly shallow argument myself.

That was a one off ... confirmed when we couldn't repeat it the following year, even though we had basically the same players ... who, BTW, also travelled down to Geelong one fateful day in July last year, if we really want to put the Sydney win in context. It's a bit like taking our Essendon win this year as being representative of where the team is at.

The rot started long before 2012, and was never going to be turned around (on-field) in one season.

One off??

In 2011 we won by the following margins....

90, 96, 89, 33, 30,27,21,11,11