Key Position Forward - who do you think we can/should get

[melbfc2013 5]

Hi all,

A new thread to discuss key position forwards. I know we have talked about them a lot in several other threads re general draft/trade prospects, but I thought we might try a new one just for the KKP.

Would love to know your thoughts/or if you have any imput.

..........................................................

Q Lynch - I was keen on Lynch, but it looks like if he goes anywhere it will be to the Blues or Pies according to recent media. Seems to make sense given he wants a 2 year deal and depending on what happens with Cloke both clubs can afford him. 29 yrs old - 

Carlton first in queue for West Coast free agent Quinten Lynch

T Cloke - probably staying at the Pies or if can't come to an agreement - probably going to the Blues. Neeld has also said not interested.

T West - might be able to do a deal with Gysberts and or some draft picks to Geelong. Cats are a little light on ruck stocks though so I don't know if he's a real option, or if he is more than a ruck than a CHF. Don't know much about this one except some people on here like the look of him. 24/25 and a premiership player.

S Gumbleton - Essendon has an abundance of tall timber in the forward line and with J Danniher coming into their forward they are short on mids. The Bombers want Caddy from GC - so maybe the Dees are in  a position to do some sort of a deal to ensure the bombers get what they want. By all reports Hird wants to hang on to him given his talent and the amount of effort they have put into him, but the Bombers are an overwhelming team and the need for good mids may outweigh the desire to hang on to Gumby. Apparently Freo are into him if they can't land another KKP so there is a big chance he might go to Freo (he's a WA boy as well).  On that note, a lot will depend if Freo can get Goddard (re salary cap wise - maybe they cant afford both). Obviously the big drawback with Gumby is his dodgy back, his kicking for goal can also be iffy at times (in particular his ball drop), but its still ok. He is great in the air though with a strong mark (when he is actually on the park). 24/25 yrs old

C Dawes - Premiership CHF and had a good few seasons, but last 2 seasons have not been great. looks to have lost all confidence and i don't think he looks like a natural footballer. Trade deal may have some currency with the Pies keen on Martin. 24/25 yrs old

Norths KPP's - The only other thing i can think of is maybe having a look at north's KPP players as i know they have an abundance of them but don't really know anything about them. 

They have two good Ruckmen Goldstein and McIntosh (injured i think) and Petrie at their main KPF (a fair gun & senior player, so we are no chance to get him) but they have two other KPP Hansen and Tarrant. Don't know alot about Hansen or Tarrant but people at North I know rate them as good developing KPP's. if anyone knows anything about these two. Both early to mid 20's I think.

Jack Watts - don't laugh, its a possibility. If he fills out a bit more and puts on a few kgs on his frame and keeps his growing in confidence, he might feel a bit more comfortable in the contest. Second efforts need to improve. Obviously a lot of big if's with this one, and where Neeld decides to play him, but its still an option.

Look forward to your thoughts and any other ideas

Cheers.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

I maintain that the most likely and most gettable is Gumby. He has the size we are looking for, is finally getting past his injury concerns and can't get a game under Hird. We should be able to snare him without too much outlay as well.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

Dawes could be traded if Buckley sees his form slump as permanent. The pies also may want to free up some salary cap space for Cloke. I would think about offering our third rounder and a player (i.e. Petterd or Cook).

Aaron Edwards would be a canny pick up.

[PaulRB 6,363]

Gumby and Hogan would be my preference.

Mainly because I'd laugh at yelling "GUMBY!!!" and doing a Col Klink impression "Hogan!".

[Pates 9,660]

I see that you've included Watts, I think he can be a forward option but I hope to see him played mainly on the wing. Of those guys, I'd be happy us taking a punt on Gumbleton.

[olisik 4,060]

Kristian Jakcsh?

[satyricon 267]

I love posts like this, posters bemoan our list constantly, "guy can't stay fit", "terrible year" "a list clogger", 'downhill skier" etc etc but as soon as another Club looks like releasing another player who could easity fit into any of the above categories, we are off...let's get him

Lynch is out of favour at Weagles...why?

Dawes has had a horrible year

Edwards can't crack a game.....if he was that good, he would replace somebody in their side

Gumbleton is injury prone

[melbfc2013 5]

Dawes could be traded if Buckley sees his form slump as permanent. The pies also may want to free up some salary cap space for Cloke. I would think about offering our third rounder and a player (i.e. Petterd or Cook).

Aaron Edwards would be a canny pick up.

yeah dont mind azza when he's on - he can be exciting, but he has big tendency to go missing and not sure he really fits the bill for a CHF at 184cm 92 kg. we also have howe who is high leaping and 190cm. I think we need a bigger body to crash and bash, so at least if we don't grab it the footy we are bringing the crumbers into play.

[melbfc2013 5]

I love posts like this, posters bemoan our list constantly, "guy can't stay fit", "terrible year" "a list clogger", 'downhill skier" etc etc but as soon as another Club looks like releasing another player who could easity fit into any of the above categories, we are off...let's get him

Lynch is out of favour at Weagles...why?

Dawes has had a horrible year

Edwards can't crack a game.....if he was that good, he would replace somebody in their side

Gumbleton is injury prone

We need a CHF so its just a discussion.

Lynch isn't geting enough game time with Kennedy and Darling (he is in the team this week though). by all reports he wants a 2 yr deal and the eagles are only offering 1. at 29 and a free agent he is entitled to look elsewhere. the word on the street is it will be the pies or blues, depending on what cloke does.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I love posts like this, posters bemoan our list constantly, "guy can't stay fit", "terrible year" "a list clogger", 'downhill skier" etc etc but as soon as another Club looks like releasing another player who could easity fit into any of the above categories, we are off...let's get him

Lynch is out of favour at Weagles...why?

Dawes has had a horrible year

Edwards can't crack a game.....if he was that good, he would replace somebody in their side

Gumbleton is injury prone

Lynch, Edwards and Gumbleton are all at teams with ample tall forwards. We don't exactly have blokes banging the door down to be CHF in the seniors.

[melbfc2013 5]

Kristian Jakcsh?

Don't know much about him - looks promising, but don't know if a first year kid is ready to hold down the CHF position.

[rolly 149]

Leigh williams or jack fitzpatrick would be my 2 inhouse choices. Both big bodies, only seen a couple of games of williams but seems more than happy to throw his frame at a pack. fitzy's work at casey this year has been nothing short of sensational. he is acceptable below his knees with a decent turn of speed which he uses to chase! as well as on the lead. both could deffinately use some more preperation and will only come on stronger next year in my opinion and be knocking on the door.

Would love to be able to say the same about watts...havent seen much from him since he ran down lewis jetta on the mcg wing in 2010!

Robbie Tarrant from north would go alright, seems the type who would step up if given extra responsibility. at north he is a long way down the pecking order, could be worth a look.

Lynch as a stay at home could add some good structure but seems like he is out of reach.

Dawes for martin?? cant help but think they are virtually the same player

[Redleg 40,925]

Kristian Jakcsh?

Was told by a bloke who has seen a lof him that he would be a good get, especially if we have extra late first round picks from a trade or two.

[Redleg 40,925]

Dawes for martin?? cant help but think they are virtually the same player

One is 5 cms taller and can play as a mobile ruckman.

[melbfc2013 5]

Leigh williams or jack fitzpatrick would be my 2 inhouse choices. Both big bodies, only seen a couple of games of williams but seems more than happy to throw his frame at a pack. fitzy's work at casey this year has been nothing short of sensational. he is acceptable below his knees with a decent turn of speed which he uses to chase! as well as on the lead. both could deffinately use some more preperation and will only come on stronger next year in my opinion and be knocking on the door.

Would love to be able to say the same about watts...havent seen much from him since he ran down lewis jetta on the mcg wing in 2010!

Robbie Tarrant from north would go alright, seems the type who would step up if given extra responsibility. at north he is a long way down the pecking order, could be worth a look.

Lynch as a stay at home could add some good structure but seems like he is out of reach.

Dawes for martin?? cant help but think they are virtually the same player

Note sure if Leigh is big enough to hold down the CHF position. Do admire Fitzy's dash and attitude and i thought that neeld warmed to him toward the end of the year, but not sure if he's a natural footy player. he looks pretty awkward. he's kicking isn't great, but he is pretty quick for a big man. not convinced hes a long term solution at CHF, but maybe a depth player.

Tarrant does sound interesting to me but dont know a lot about him, except seeing him play in a few games and that north people generally have good things to say about him- if anyone does have some info or an opinion please, share your thoughts.

My hopes of getting Q Lynch have faded.

Gumby does look good, but would be a fair risk with his back ailments i would have thought, and any trade there will depend on so many other choices, that the bombers/St Kilda/freo make. any other team likely to play finals that needs a KPF would be in a better position than us though i would have thought.

You're right, there isn't much of a diff b/w dawes and martin (at least i dont think either of them have footy brains) but martin seems more of 2nd ruckman and Dawes seems more of CHF. could be a trade option, but to be honest i'm not keen on it.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Note sure if Leigh is big enough to hold down the CHF position. Do admire Fitzy's dash and attitude and i thought that neeld warmed to him toward the end of the year, but not sure if he's a natural footy player. he looks pretty awkward. he's kicking isn't great, but he is pretty quick for a big man. not convinced hes a long term solution at CHF, but maybe a depth player.

Tarrant does sound interesting to me but dont know a lot about him, except seeing him play in a few games and that north people generally have good things to say about him- if anyone does have some info or an opinion please, share your thoughts.

My hopes of getting Q Lynch have faded.

Gumby does look good, but would be a fair risk with his back ailments i would have thought, and any trade there will depend on so many other choices, that the bombers/St Kilda/freo make. any other team likely to play finals that needs a KPF would be in a better position than us though i would have thought.

You're right, there isn't much of a diff b/w dawes and martin (at least i dont think either of them have footy brains) but martin seems more of 2nd ruckman and Dawes seems more of CHF. could be a trade option, but to be honest i'm not keen on it.

Melbfc - if you could, would you take Jack Darling? If so, Williams would only need to add 5kgs or so over the summer (not at all impossible), and he'd be a similar figure. Col Garland actually has JD's size.

What is the "right" height/weight that a KPF needs to be? It's always an interesting one.

[Maldonboy38 6,403]

Gumbleton is attractive and should be sounded out. Maybe his injuries are Essendon related??? As a lead-up forward through the 50m arc he could be a real asset.

But I agree with rolly from above - Fitzpatrick has improved exponentially this year and he should be given more chances in 2013. He seems to be overcoming his natural unco-ordination and has been marking, pack marking, and kicking really well (considering his horrible kicking action). I saw a fait bit of him in the preaseason and he is super quick, one of the quickest on our list from memory. Runs all day, too.

Williams - sorry, I can't see the upside on this bloke at all. It is true that he hits the pack hard but he rarely seems to end up with the ball.

[hardtack 10,537]

Intercept Tippett (sp?) en route to Queensland; worked with Clark.

[jamurp 3]

Bring back Juice Newton!

[Demon Disciple 12,124]

Melbfc - if you could, would you take Jack Darling? If so, Williams would only need to add 5kgs or so over the summer (not at all impossible), and he'd be a similar figure. Col Garland actually has JD's size.

What is the "right" height/weight that a KPF needs to be? It's always an interesting one.

For me it's not so much about height and weight (within reason - obviously cannot have a 180cm 80kg guy trying to hold down CHF), moreso, the way they play the position. KPP's need to have a presence about them, they must thrive on contact and physicality, they must want the ball and command it when they don't have it. Jack Watts has none of these traits, whereas Mitch Clark does.

We still need another KPF and given we only have one decent KPD with these traits (Frawley), i still firmly believe that we are in need of another KPD as well (hopefully Sheahan comes on - as it will allow McDonald to play a type of high possession, re-bounding Dustin Fletcher type role)

Edited September 7, 2012 by Demon Disciple

[melbfc2013 5]

Melbfc - if you could, would you take Jack Darling? If so, Williams would only need to add 5kgs or so over the summer (not at all impossible), and he'd be a similar figure. Col Garland actually has JD's size.

What is the "right" height/weight that a KPF needs to be? It's always an interesting one.

Yeah its border line, and it is a tough one. Darling is obviously a freakish talent, and he's a small for a KPP, but the eagles have a diff forward structure where Darling is essentially the 3rd tall, because you often have Cox and nic nat rotating through there (playing as forwards), which the Eagles can get away with because they are so mobile and so strong overhead (aside from the fact they are both freaks!).

Im not an expert on Leigh - ive seen a little of him, but i suppose i was thinking of someone ready made to hold down the CHF. Perhaps with Leigh as a 3rd tall or as a development sort of player until he finds he's feet a bit?

Edited September 7, 2012 by melbfc2013

[DeeSpencer 25,708]

Melbfc - if you could, would you take Jack Darling? If so, Williams would only need to add 5kgs or so over the summer (not at all impossible), and he'd be a similar figure. Col Garland actually has JD's size.

What is the "right" height/weight that a KPF needs to be? It's always an interesting one.

Williams can certainly be a KPF, just like Darling can, but at the 190-193cm height you have to play more on the lead or by great body work. Tall defenders have you covered with reach. However if you can run and know how to get first hands on the ball then you can be a target and that's the basics in any key forward. Be the guy who brings the ball to the ground is job number 1 and its not as easy as it sounds. Williams did look a touch VFL class from what I've seen - lacks either extremely good body work, speed or a leap, of which you need 1 if not 2 to make it at AFL. But midseason he was in an ICU half dead and last year he was playing suburban footy so you'd think there would be significant upside to him.

Fitzpatrick obviously has the speed, but I'm yet to see him take pack marks or even break packs. To me he looks like a quick tall bloke who if you could develop skills could be a handy back up ruck and then be dangerous up forward due to mismatches but in no way am I convinced he is a tall forward. To me he's just a poor mans Stef Martin.

Sheahan has been going nicely as a defender in the VFL after being an Under 18 forward, but I think his skill set in terms of fitness, reading the play and skills are better down back. I know he's had a great season down back but I'm still really pushing for Tom McDonald to play CHF. He can find the footy, he can run all day and he can mark. Plus his kicking under pressure is not good but his kicking when balanced isn't back. I'd have to see him have shots at training but I expect he wouldn't be a horrible set shot. For mine I think Rivers, Watts, Garland, Sellar, Davis and Sheahan represent a good core of key defenders with different attributes to complement Frawley. So why not give McDonald a go up forward.

The guy I'd be super keen on is Cam Pedersen from North. He' 25, ready to go body and can play back up ruck or CHB as well because his strength is not a particular athletic ability but his football ability. He's a guy who can read the play and go get the ball. To me he could fill in at CHF and do a very good job. He doesn't move like lightening but he has good size so you couldn't get away with a third tall defender on him, you'd actually have to respect him. He's a similar type to Sellar but I think he's got better hands and would just do enough to do the job each week with the occasional good week and offer more than Rivers at CHF. It would also let Rivers and Sellar go back to fighting for spots in the backline and would put the pressure on Martin and the other young forwards to lift their game. Goldstein, Petrie, Hansen and Tarrant aren't going anywhere so you'd expect he'd be keen to move after only 2 games this year.

Lynch at nearly 30 is too old to worry about and I'd let Collingwood and Carlton fight for him and whilst I wouldn't say no to Gumbleton I expect with the investment they've made he'd be worth much more for Essendon to keep now than sell. I'd have concerns given up a high second round pick for him.

My plan: Get Pedersen for a 3rd round pick to be the stop gap tall forward and back up ruck. Throw Tom McDonald forward for half a season to see if he's as good as I think he could be. Take a promising key forward in the draft. I expect Pedersen would do a job but if he doesn't then its not a huge waste, if McDonald doesn't cut it then he can go to the backline for the second half of the year and by that time the kid we took in the draft might be ready for a taste of AFL, otherwise we know Rivers can at least contribute something up forward especially if McDonald/Watts and Sellar can take CHB. All up if we have Mitch Clark firing then at least we are only 1 target short. Don't forget Howe can roam through the forward line and demands respect.

[melbfc2013 5]

Intercept Tippett (sp?) en route to Queensland; worked with Clark.

the stuff i've heard is he just wants to go home, and the suns /bris arent offering that much more. i know he's a decent player, but i haven't really seen him play a good game at the G (mind you i didn't see the last Dees v Crows game at the G - he probably kicked 6...)

Edited September 7, 2012 by melbfc2013

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Don't think we'll land Lynch for the reasons alread stated and thre's no way North would let Tarrant or Hansen go. They've both just started to look good and are important pillars in their forward line.

The players I'm interested in are:

Scott Gumbleton: Very strong mark, strong build and if we can get his body right would be a great CHF for us. He's also 4th/5th in line at Essendon with Hurley, Crameri & Ryder taking the 3 tall forward spots leaving Gumby to battle with the soon to arrive Daniher.

Aaron Cornelius: This guy can still make it I reckon. Played 8 games this year, averaging 4 marks and 9.5 possesions a game kicking 13 goals. Brisbane played him at FF this year but I think CHF would suit him. Allow him to lead up the ground and play as a bit of a link CHF. Put some bulk on and learn to influence contets a bit more then he has so far.

Shaun McKernan: If Tippett leaves Adelaide he'll be hard to get. But if Tippett stays he'll certainly be on the cards. A lot of talent and pretty strong. Can also chop out in the ruck if need be.

And players that we could draft into the position for the future would be Jesse Hogan, Mason Shaw and Kristian Jaksch.

[az_tec 41]

I'd like to see Mitch Clark and Jack Fitzpatrick play in the same side rotating between FF and CHF and the ruck when Jamar is resting

Fitzy seems to have made progress at casey(from what ive seen and heard), and has only been given 2 rnd 23 games

IMO he should have been given a shot a lot earlier this season