2011 TRADES DISCUSSION

[The Chazz 4,077]

Still would love to lure Sewell over, but could be doubtful due to where Hawthorn is placed (I think they will go close to winning the Cup in 2012 at this early stage).

Maybe we offer up Pick 12 this year with Warnock. I'm sure a Club that is desperate for a solid defender would consider one of their better players with this deal. Would it be enought to get Sewell? Would go bloody close. Would it be enough to get Goddard? According to Ralph, the top players would demand 2 first-rounders, so it may be short. Would St Kilda get more benefit from one of our compo picks rather than pick 12?

Realistically, we have 3 first round draft picks this year OR next year. Next year, if it were a normal year, we'd only have 1 first rounder, and hopefully if we rise up the ladder, might be a pick 8-12. In a normal year, we'd be stoked to get a player like Viney at that number, so are we really gaining anything by hanging on to our 2 compo picks for then? I would consider trading pick 12 and one of our compo picks this year, which will still give us 1 first round pick in this draft.

Maybe that might be enough for St Kilda to lose Goddard - pick 12, the 2nd of our compo picks, and Warnock?

[beelzebub 22,324]

Its been a false dawn for many a year now, that is the notion of a rampant trade week. It always sounds good then fizzles and splutters to nothingness. I always find this week and its lead up to be quite intriguing. I enjoy the posterings and the permutations, alas these are more often fleeting and ghostlike.

This year I really think there wil be action galore. The whole dynamic is changed as a result of not only GWs but the recent chance to view what happened as a result of GC coming into being. I sense many clubs will have learnt there is genuine opportunity to reshuffle their lists especially when the traditional shopping source of the draft is so severely compromised.

Weve also seen how players have grown to understand the opportunity that presents itself and now are becoming more astute/brazen/informed as to the process. Players are now driving this more than clubs. Players like Warnock, Gunston,Tippert etc wasted no time putting their hands up. Clubs are forced into action . Theyve learnt they will get burnt if they dont do something.

This then brings into play the "3rd Club" Often trades are done on the dealings between 3 clubs so as we speculate as to whom might be worth x y or z its not so clear cut. Theres a sort of natural balance about all of this in so much as if theres an equilibrium between various clubs wants and excesses then there tends to be a gravitation ( albeit often only eventually ) towards a satisfactory outcome. Id empahasise satisfactory as opposed to ideal or desired. This is the grey world of deals...what can be satisfactory for the parties involved. Much posturing and rucking occurs before fear and common sense make present their efffect.

Roll on trade week.. love it

Edited October 6, 2011 by belzebub59

[old55 21,634]

Still would love to lure Sewell over, but could be doubtful due to where Hawthorn is placed (I think they will go close to winning the Cup in 2012 at this early stage).

Maybe we offer up Pick 12 this year with Warnock. I'm sure a Club that is desperate for a solid defender would consider one of their better players with this deal. Would it be enought to get Sewell? Would go bloody close. Would it be enough to get Goddard? According to Ralph, the top players would demand 2 first-rounders, so it may be short. Would St Kilda get more benefit from one of our compo picks rather than pick 12?

Realistically, we have 3 first round draft picks this year OR next year. Next year, if it were a normal year, we'd only have 1 first rounder, and hopefully if we rise up the ladder, might be a pick 8-12. In a normal year, we'd be stoked to get a player like Viney at that number, so are we really gaining anything by hanging on to our 2 compo picks for then? I would consider trading pick 12 and one of our compo picks this year, which will still give us 1 first round pick in this draft.

Maybe that might be enough for St Kilda to lose Goddard - pick 12, the 2nd of our compo picks, and Warnock?

Step one is to convince the player to come across, we've got the ammo with the Scully picks, pick 12 and potentially desirable players to specific teams like Warnock to do a deal.

[jacey 333]

Interested in Shane Savage though. Some speed thru the midfield and was overlooked in the business end.

Also might enquire about Paul Bower. Good player but for some reason didn't get games this year.

Todd Banfield. Voss just won't play him in the midifeld. Wasted on a HFF.

David Mackay is a good player that might need a new environment.

None really worthy of first round outright as they all have question marks but have huge upside. Second round + player, maybe a downgrade of our 1st pick

Edited October 6, 2011 by jacey

[Supermercado 2,646]

Somebody always tries to float that we're about to swap pick 50 for the Big Setant.

Pleased to see this year's Setanta rumor has appeared. See you in 2012 for the next installment.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Step one is to convince the player to come across, we've got the ammo with the Scully picks, pick 12 and potentially desirable players to specific teams like Warnock to do a deal.

That's why I said Sewell would be hard to convince - like Clarkson, it's just too hard to leave Hawthorn in the state they are in to come to us.

Goddard on the other hand, well, we can chuck some cash at him (would be the best player on our list), St Kilda's offield issues are always there, more personnel leaving than coming, fair to say they are on the slide (window shutting rapidly). I'm almost 100% against this method, but could you offer him the captaincy? A lot of things there that could get inside his head and start thinking about.

Compare that to Pendlebury next year, again, unless the sh!t hit the fan, why would he leave Collingwood?

[old dee 22,982]

That's why I said Sewell would be hard to convince - like Clarkson, it's just too hard to leave Hawthorn in the state they are in to come to us.

Goddard on the other hand, well, we can chuck some cash at him (would be the best player on our list), St Kilda's offield issues are always there, more personnel leaving than coming, fair to say they are on the slide (window shutting rapidly). I'm almost 100% against this method, but could you offer him the captaincy? A lot of things there that could get inside his head and start thinking about.

Compare that to Pendlebury next year, again, unless the sh!t hit the fan, why would he leave Collingwood?

GWS money!

[old55 21,634]

GWS money!

No-one from a team in flag contention has gone to GC or GWS except Gazza

[H_T 2,941]

Maybe we offer up Pick 12 this year with Warnock. I'm sure a Club that is desperate for a solid defender would consider one of their better players with this deal. Would it be enought to get Sewell? Would go bloody close. Would it be enough to get Goddard? According to Ralph, the top players would demand 2 first-rounders, so it may be short. Would St Kilda get more benefit from one of our compo picks rather than pick 12?

Maybe that might be enough for St Kilda to lose Goddard - pick 12, the 2nd of our compo picks, and Warnock?

In relation to Warnock, the Hawks appear to need a solid defender. If Lake is out of the picture due to the co$t, Warnock comes into the frame IMO. old55 has mentioned J.Lisle he is 21 years, 196cm ~92Kg with 5 games (all this year), 2 seasons into the system, to his name and was picked up at 50 in 2008 draft. Could be a ok trade option with exchange of late pick(s).

Ralphy might be right re: two first rounders for top players or it could be one first rounder and a player of value. If it is one of value, I think some supporters should be prepared for some angst (ie. lose a player they might want to keep) if our club wants to get someone of quality in.

Step one is to convince the player to come across, we've got the ammo with the Scully picks, pick 12 and potentially desirable players to specific teams like Warnock to do a deal.

Goddard on the other hand, well, we can chuck some cash at him (would be the best player on our list), St Kilda's offield issues are always there, more personnel leaving than coming, fair to say they are on the slide (window shutting rapidly). I'm almost 100% against this method, but could you offer him the captaincy? A lot of things there that could get inside his head and start thinking about.

I have mentioned this before in the Rumour thread (page one) about Goddard and offering the captaincy. As I've said it's a long shot, but when the player in question has clearly communicated to all in sundry about keeping his options open, it's translation for me as a call for help and a change in his best interests and worth an investigation if he can benefit our club. But what would it take ? That'$ the big que$tion. {see what I did here}. And as old55 said, convincing the player, as well as their club. (He is contracted next year).

It would mean giving up a popular player with value IMO who might well be on a fair bit of coin at Mfc and pick 12. And Warnock wouldn't be it IMO, neither Bate.

Bate could be used in a trade. The Bulldogs have been mentioned. Maybe in return for a need...small forward perhaps..or draft pick ? Or he could be used with the compo picks to secure pick one.

I'd use our compo picks on pick one in the mini draft for O'Meara or Crouch. Ensuring we pick up two jets next year (the other being Viney).

I thought this piece of advice from WJ in his "Looking for a different Cat" take was quite apt: -

The targets are likely to include one of the under 17 mini draft players, a mature, quality midfielder with the ability to win the ball at stoppages and some leadership capability and a tall marking forward.

To achieve this you need both a positive approach and good intelligence. There are some clubs that might need to free up salary cap space, others might have needs where Melbourne has a surplus. Some sacrifices might have to be made because fairytale trades don't just happen. They have to be win/win deals for both sides and this might mean some pain and some angst among supporters.

[old dee 22,982]

No-one from a team in flag contention has gone to GC or GWS except Gazza

By then he might have two flags to his name and be looking for the big pay out.

Why would he only sign for one year?

Me thinks I see another 31 here

[H_T 2,941]

By then he might have two flags to his name and be looking for the big pay out.

Why would he only sign for one year?

Me thinks I see another 31 here

Maximising his marketing/earning capacity ? He would command a greater contract next year I would think with GWS still there as an option - as many in the media would suggest - and probably so too at Collingwood. Especially if he produced another good year.

I've read that he is interested in the marketing management of players as an area he may want to pursue after footy. Just as a point of interest re: his contract status.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I have mentioned this before in the Rumour thread (page one) about Goddard and offering the captaincy. As I've said it's a long shot, but when the player in question has clearly communicated to all in sundry about keeping his options open, it's translation for me as a call for help and a change in his best interests and worth an investigation if he can benefit our club. But what would it take ? That'$ the big que$tion. {see what I did here}. And as old55 said, convincing the player, as well as their club. (He is contracted next year).

It would mean giving up a popular player with value IMO who might well be on a fair bit of coin at Mfc and pick 12. And Warnock wouldn't be it IMO, neither Bate.

Bate could be used in a trade. The Bulldogs have been mentioned. Maybe in return for a need...small forward perhaps..or draft pick ? Or he could be used with the compo picks to secure pick one.

I'd use our compo picks on pick one in the mini draft for O'Meara or Crouch. Ensuring we pick up two jets next year (the other being Viney).

I thought this piece of advice from WJ in his "Looking for a different Cat" take was quite apt: -

I wouldn't be so sure about this part HT. Why would St Kilda trade one of their best players, for someone of a similar vintage? I think for that trade to work, St Kilda would be more looking at the future, and see that having 2 x 1st round draft picks, plus Warnock (I'm suggesting Warnock only because of the talk of them trading Dawson), for a team of St Kilda's age and what they haven't been able to draft over the past few years of finishing up higher, and especially if they continue to get lower down the ladder (which I think they will).

I have to ask, what is the better of our compo picks? Hypothetically, if we used it this year, would it be pick 13 (used straight after our first round pick 12)? And if that's it, and we trade it, does that then become the "new owners" pick after their first round pick or is it still based on ours? I know it's been flogged to death, just can't be bothered finding it.

[H_T 2,941]

I wouldn't be so sure about this part HT. Why would St Kilda trade one of their best players, for someone of a similar vintage? I think for that trade to work, St Kilda would be more looking at the future, and see that having 2 x 1st round draft picks, plus Warnock (I'm suggesting Warnock only because of the talk of them trading Dawson), for a team of St Kilda's age and what they haven't been able to draft over the past few years of finishing up higher, and especially if they continue to get lower down the ladder (which I think they will).

I have to ask, what is the better of our compo picks? Hypothetically, if we used it this year, would it be pick 13 (used straight after our first round pick 12)? And if that's it, and we trade it, does that then become the "new owners" pick after their first round pick or is it still based on ours? I know it's been flogged to death, just can't be bothered finding it.

Firstly, we can't use the compo picks this year in the draft, but we can trade them. If we decided to keep them we can use them anytime 2012-onwards in the draft(s) - (any of the next 5 drafts) IIRC. But we have to nominate at the start of the year in question if we intend to use them that particular year.

Re: St.Kilda - They would need to decide that if they had an inkling GWS were gunning for Goddard in 2012 or Goddard was open to moving on (which he has stated) - would they prefer to receive two compo picks in return in 2012 (with no immediate return next year in way of a player of equal value) or would they want to trade him now and guarantee a mature or semi-mature player and pick(s) in return for him "in the now"... . It all depends on what St.Kilda would want IMO. And the non-coach aspect ATM makes it all the more interesting and bewildering.

Btw, it wasn't meant to be a statement by me re: "similar vintage" ....but it depends whether or not St.Kilda see themselves still a chance for a flag in 2012 too.

Clearly there are big decisions that need to be made at St.Kilda in where they are at with regard to their list. They will be competitive next season. So what do you do as coach or club ? Put 2011 behind and soldier on and let evolution take place ? And what of the player in question ? Does he think about his future ? Luke Ball did. Would St.Kilda want a season in 2012 wondering what on earth is happening with Goddard and GWS ? Clearly the distractions at Melbourne and Geelong were evident. St.Kilda had enough distractions in early 2011 to learn from this. Food for thought anyway.

Decisions, decisions.

[Mac7 309]

Didn't hear it but a guy at work said G.Lyon mentioned on radio that we have a lot of money to spend and going to be chasing a big name at trade week.

[w00dy 146]

If a club is offloading a big name, then we have the means to get them with the 2 Scully selections, and the cash to pay them. What needs to happen is a big name, that will add value to our side, needs to be available. Not much we can do about that second half, but make it known that we're paying money and we've got the picks to get the deal done...

[Mono 454]

Didn't hear it but a guy at work said G.Lyon mentioned on radio that we have a lot of money to spend and going to be chasing a big name at trade week.

I think Lyon made some statements after Scully left along the lines of: "(paraphrasing) they had better watch out.....we have money to spend....they will get theirs".

Maybe that's what's being referred to.

[Demon Disciple 11,133]

I think Lyon made some statements after Scully left along the lines of: "(paraphrasing) they had better watch out.....we have money to spend....they will get theirs".

Maybe that's what's being referred to.

well if that's the case, then we won't be spending big for another 2 years then, when their young kids come out of contract. Maybe John Patton!!!! Start chirping in his ear now.

[Heart Beats True 524]

Think of it as you will, Damien Barrett just tweeted the following:

barrettdamian Damian Barrett

The Dees have salary cap money to burn, given they had 500k or so to give to Scully. Watch this space.

Let's hope that we are cooking up something huge for next week. Every year the week is a constant let-down however maybe, just maybe, this trend could change next week.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Heart Beats True

[dee-luded 2,958]

I reckon Jon Ralph is wrong. We'll be looking to be active trade week and will pounce if a good option comes along. Far from "boring"

http://www.heraldsun...partmentoftrade

Sorry, this is his summary of all clubs: http://www.heraldsun...j-1226159465055

I agree HT. I think this time were in a stronger n=bargaining position than in past years. I think we'll do many small exchanges.

And with a Bit of luck, we may be involves and Win a big one.

[beelzebub 22,324]

I think an aspect that is different for the MFC come this trade week is its attitude. We wil go hunting as opposed to be a reactionary to anothers poaching. We couldnt do much about that certain other someone but when its out in the open as is essentially the tenet of trade week then its a different ball game.

Its Wabbit season !!!!

[Matt Demon 1,388]

We've got 3 first round picks up our sleeve and a shite load of cap room... Let's go shopping!

[biggestred 4,377]

i hear we are trading picks 12, 31 and 50 plus bate and green for daniel jackson from the tiges....

[Slartibartfast 16,021]

I think people are looking at this the wrong way.

Let's forget "bits and pieces" players - look at what we genuinely need. Then look at the picks we have - as Old55 says they are good.

But then look at our list and see where we have a surplus that might be attractive to other club - genuinely good players - and then think what they might get.

Now that would be interesting.

[beelzebub 22,324]

I think people are looking at this the wrong way.

Let's forget "bits and pieces" players - look at what we genuinely need. Then look at the picks we have - as Old55 says they are good.

But then look at our list and see where we have a surplus that might be attractive to other club - genuinely good players - and then think what they might get.

Now that would be interesting.

its going to be very interesting ...but you just know someone's going to cry (here on DL) when a Demon is put up in exchange. B)

[dee-luded 2,958]

its going to be very interesting ...but you just know someone's going to cry (here on DL) when a Demon is put up in exchange. B)

What like when Croad went to Freo, or Tarrant went to Freo, or Woewodin went to Pyes, or Farmer went to Freo?

Or Thompson went to Crows?

Bring it On. Trade Hard & trade well.