Coaching sub committee

[mrtwister 650]

Committee offered Clarkson a 6 year contract. Apparently.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Whispering_Jack

[Jaded No More 59,545]

Committee offered Clarkson a 6 year contract. Apparently.

If only....

I'd give him 7, I'd give him 10. I would also give him my left arm if he came to coach us.

Sadly, won't happen. You don't leave a jet plane for a leaky boat.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We're in no place to judge our own assistants' performance, but Neeld is widely regarded as being one of the best assistants in the game, by those people who would know.

His results are so good that they are recognisable to those on the outside, and he is widely regarded as a chance to win a head coaching position.

I'd like him on our staff because he is clearly a very capable midfield or backline coach at the very least, because he is the type that could eventually take over as head coach if a guy like Malthouse came in for a few years, then grew tired of the caper, and because no matter who the new coach is that comes in, they are likely to bring in a new group of assistants - it would be good to get one regarded as one of the best in the game.

That's very different to making judgments on the performances of our current assistants, with very little to go on.

Do you see the clear distinction?

I fully understand the distinction, but I'm also asking who is going to make way should Neeld join us (even though it is highly unlikely that he will come).

You're also right about having very little to go on in regards to our current staff. What I am observing though is that our backline has gone backwards this year, and you cannot argue that point. So I look at the reasons why, and the main common denominator is the departure of Wellman and the arrival of Royal.

Our midfield just plain and simply lacks talent. The Jamar/Moloney combination is one of, if not the best ruck/rover combinations in the league, it's just that we are light on after that. Give this area another couple of seasons, and it has the potential to be our dominant area. Scott West would probably get a pass (in my opinion with nothing to go on).

Our forward line have minimal structure, which is frustrating. Like the midfield, we simply lack quality. However, while everyone is screaming out for a big-body forward, and from memory the coaching staff said the same at the end of last year, I think we were too slow in trying Stef Martin there and rotating with Jamar. Perhaps I'm harsh on Mahoney, especially considering the limited opportunities our forwards have, but I'd still like to seemore structure. I'm happy to wait for development.

There seems to be a lot of hyp around this Neeld bloke, and I'm a little bit unsure where I sit with him. It is well documented that Sanderson and Hinkley are the better 2 assistants in the league, so if I were trying to poach someone, it would be out of those 2 (again, very unlikely). The only way I see Neeld considering us is if Malthouse were coach.

I have to say one thing though, I can't understand why you think Malthouse is going to come in, coach us for a few years and win us a flag, then walk away and give the job to someone else. What is a few? A flag wont be next year, and unlikely the year after, but after that I'm hopeful. If it is 3 years away, I'd like to think tha tthe playing group would prefer stability for the few seasons following that. Incredible to think you are already looking at a replacement for Malthouse, even though a> he isn't our coach, and b> we aren't a top 4 side.

[Craig Drinker 179]

Offering anyone a 5 year(or longer) contract IMO is a recipe for disaster! A lot can change in a 5 year period,just ask the Tigers and their employment of 'The Snake Oil Salesman'.

Very,very risky business!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Offering anyone a 5 year(or longer) contract IMO is a recipe for disaster! A lot can change in a 5 year period,just ask the Tigers and their employment of 'The Snake Oil Salesman'.

Very,very risky business!

The length of contract was not the issue at the Tigers. The term was legitimate for the type of rebuild they planned and the fact they wanted an experienced coach. They just chose a dud who already had serious question marks about his style and manner at his previous club.

[beelzebub 22,649]

Offering anyone a 5 year(or longer) contract IMO is a recipe for disaster! A lot can change in a 5 year period,just ask the Tigers and their employment of 'The Snake Oil Salesman'.

Very,very risky business!

One would HOPE much changes in 5 years.

Just a hypothetical.

MM comes to Melb. Id expect 2012 to become seriously competitive, but not a force

2013. Starts ramping up top 4 ..playing deeper into finals

2014 PF and poss GF

2015 Flag

2016 Flag

All very upbeat I concede but theres method and lineage. Why would you want to get half way then stuff around re-signing someone or going through what Collingwood is.

Id consider 5 years with options to be the sound and intelligent way forward....on the proviso we get the right man in first place.

lets not dick around......anymore

[dee-luded 2,958]

So what happens if Clarkson (as he surely will) and Lyon decline our offer and Eade has been snapped up by Adelaide?

Will we then recast the panel because we will be left to choose "newbies". That will be a good look, not. But it will be in keeping with the performance of the Board since the Geelong weekend which has been nothing short of shambolic.

Very strange. And what if both Clarkson and Lyon want it? Who on that panel has the experience to make an informed judgement.

Very strange indeed.

Hmmn, Indeed, smacks of a decision that already done then, doesn't 'IT'.

[daisycutter 28,712]

Hmmn, Indeed, smacks of a decision that already done then, doesn't 'IT'.

or they're just thrashing around in dream-on-land????

[dee_star 63]

Am I the only one who thinks we are going about this in a very unprofessional manner?

We've brought in an "outside consultant" in Lyon to effectively run the football operations despite him repeatedly saying that he doesn't want to be involved at all, and despite putting this sub committee together we appear to be running through the AFL Club rolodex alphabetically to try and poach the Senior Coach from Collingwood, Hawthorn and now St Kilda.

There doesn't appear to be any sort of plan or process in place to select the BEST available coach, only a one person "team" looking for a band aid solution before they vacate the building as soon as possible.

I'm not being critical of Lyon, I appreciate that he has taken on a job that he doesn't want to do to help the club in its time of need, but how badly are we going when one person can come in and just run the show and forgo a genuine selection process for the most important job at the club?

[H_T 2,941]

Who said anything about it being a one man show ?

[PaulRB 6,048]

Perhaps the decision on the next coach has already been decided, and GL is on board to manage how the this transition is handled in the media (his area of expertise) and on the board now and into next year. Garry is essentially our ill Presidents emissary at the moment, explaining and smoothing out the decisions that have been in motion by the MFC board for months...

And a great selection for that role.

Go Dees.

Edited August 26, 2011 by PaulRB

[rpfc 27,663]

Am I the only one who thinks we are going about this in a very unprofessional manner?

Perhaps, we certainly have thrown out the book of 'PR Management'...

We've brought in an "outside consultant" in Lyon to effectively run the football operations despite him repeatedly saying that he doesn't want to be involved at all, and despite putting this sub committee together we appear to be running through the AFL Club rolodex alphabetically to try and poach the Senior Coach from Collingwood, Hawthorn and now St Kilda.

'Effectively'? I don't think so. He is fulfilling a position that Jimmy would be driving anyway. CC is the head of the Footy Dept. Garry is the effective oice of the board. The two roles are distinct in my eyes. And should be, especially considering CC is under review in his position.

As for the coach search - you're right. We are trying to poach someone. And I say 'Go. For. It.' The right 'process' to getting a coach is subjective.

We were applauded for the process that landed us a coach that failed 3 and 3/4 years later...

There doesn't appear to be any sort of plan or process in place to select the BEST available coach, only a one person "team" looking for a band aid solution before they vacate the building as soon as possible.

Band-Aid?

Now you are being unfair.

If Garry can help us snare Malthouse or Lyon for 5 years, how is that a 'Band-Aid' solution?

It may be the case that they already have their man and that this is a charade...

But that is speculation best left to journos on their twitter accounts...

I'm not being critical of Lyon, I appreciate that he has taken on a job that he doesn't want to do to help the club in its time of need, but how badly are we going when one person can come in and just run the show and forgo a genuine selection process for the most important job at the club?

We are going badly.

The players hate the admin, the FD is incompetent and under review, the Board didn't realise anything, and we have awful on-field leadership.

I would trust no-one at our club to get this right.

So what have we done?

We have brought in a cheap, knowledgeable consultant who will be loyal and help us make a decision in the best interests of the club. Including a behind the scenes handshake deal with a team in the finals - which at some point we will have to ask for. Not necessarily get, but definitely ask for.

I am so comfortable with Garry doing this it is scary...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Todd Viney put his hand up for the job next year and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he was appointed.

[old dee 23,182]

Perhaps, we certainly have thrown out the book of 'PR Management'...

'Effectively'? I don't think so. He is fulfilling a position that Jimmy would be driving anyway. CC is the head of the Footy Dept. Garry is the effective oice of the board. The two roles are distinct in my eyes. And should be, especially considering CC is under review in his position.

As for the coach search - you're right. We are trying to poach someone. And I say 'Go. For. It.' The right 'process' to getting a coach is subjective.

We were applauded for the process that landed us a coach that failed 3 and 3/4 years later...

Band-Aid?

Now you are being unfair.

If Garry can help us snare Malthouse or Lyon for 5 years, how is that a 'Band-Aid' solution?

It may be the case that they already have their man and that this is a charade...

But that is speculation best left to journos on their twitter accounts...

We are going badly.

The players hate the admin, the FD is incompetent and under review, the Board didn't realise anything, and we have awful on-field leadership.

I would trust no-one at our club to get this right.

So what have we done?

We have brought in a cheap, knowledgeable consultant who will be loyal and help us make a decision in the best interests of the club. Including a behind the scenes handshake deal with a team in the finals - which at some point we will have to ask for. Not necessarily get, but definitely ask for.

I am so comfortable with Garry doing this it is scary...

Good grief rpfc it took me 10 minutes to sort this out.

So I think I agree with you 100%

Specially this line "We were applauded for the process that landed us a coach that failed 3 and 3/4 years later..."

[dee-luded 2,958]

Perhaps the decision on the next coach has already been decided, and GL is on board to manage how the this transition is handled in the media (his area of expertise) and on the board now and into next year. Garry is essentially our ill Presidents emissary at the moment, explaining and smoothing out the decisions that have been in motion by the MFC board for months...

And a great selection for that role.

Go Dees.

This is exactly what I've been wondering ever since MM bothered to single out Maric, as if it was his place to do so. Very ODD I thought at the time, but Interesting!

[Demon Dynasty 16,188]

Given we're already supposedly offering a few blokes contracts if they want them then it suggests theres no long drawn out panle selection going to be had.

How exactly would you ask Picasso or Da Vinci how theyre going to paint a picture for you.. You just hire them..... youve seen what they do already surely.

Well i'm not so sure Belze....we could always drag out a few past gems.....such as....

".... Melbourne put the five candidates through a game simulation exercise as part of the selection process."....(Bailey appointment process 2007).

That's worth another try on an established coach i reckon ..... i mean, if it was good enough to help eliminate Sheeds...

Edited August 27, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 16,188]

One would HOPE much changes in 5 years.

Just a hypothetical.

MM comes to Melb. Id expect 2012 to become seriously competitive, but not a force

2013. Starts ramping up top 4 ..playing deeper into finals

2014 PF and poss GF

2015 Flag

2016 Flag

All very upbeat I concede but theres method and lineage. Why would you want to get half way then stuff around re-signing someone or going through what Collingwood is.

Id consider 5 years with options to be the sound and intelligent way forward....on the proviso we get the right man in first place.

lets not dick around......anymore

I can't see MM coming to the MFC next year Belze. As nice as that might be. I reckon he sits out for 2012 effectively under a massive long service leave 'hands off' arrangement, courtesy of Eddie. Maybe 2013, but as many have already asked here. Surely we can't sit around holding out till then?

As an extreme outside chance.... there just might be put in place some behind the scenes deal between us, The Pies and MM ......with Eddie's reluctant anointment to have him join us under some sort of 'in principle' agreement, or even something in writing with a delay clause. Almost impossible i realise so i'm putting that in tattslotto territory.

However, even IF that were to somehow happen, that still leaves us with 2012 to deal with.

Maybe Todd continues on with a nice little bag O' gold as enticement? It's a difficult job given Todds reluctance but surely made easier if the $$ are flowing i would think. Especially knowing it's only for 12 months. Oops, sorry, no one outside the Board will know this of course

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Hardly a coaching committee to hang your hat on.

Melbourne just too Melbourne we currently stuck in a rut of drinking our own bathwater

Were hardly the stencil for success.

As an aside when was the last time MFC landed a big fish.

Player or coach wise I cant think of anyone in the last 20 years

Anyone that says Byron Pickett will be shot.

[Demon Dynasty 16,188]

Because he has a year to run on his contract

and he may think the back up at St Kilda is a long way in front of Melbourne.

On top of that we may have a group of potentially good kids.

But the experienced players are fairly ordinary or close to the end.

Who is going to carry our side over the next couple of years?

It's a very good point Old.

I'm hoping we do snare a top liner like Lyon though, as this might help bring some interest from experienced talent who might be willing to jump on board with someone they truly believe has a grasp of today's modern game, and a young maturing list with some talent. In addition his Fortress style is something we sadly lack at present, in any form.

The other point that was mentioned during the week, i think it was Mathews (but not sure) who said, as a coach at this level you really only get 2 shots at it. And only a 2nd shot, IF you've had some degree of success. The point being that in the end it's a job, and the ideal for an AFL coach is to stay as long as possible at the first club, before considering a move on to a new one in order to have the longest career prospects you possibly can. Even if it means only getting say 2 more years out of your career as a result.

So if Lyon is being advised in a similar vein to this by his management, it's more than likely he wont be moving to the Demons in 2012.

If so, the available experienced 'poaching' options out there are quickly thinning by the week.

That would leave Mark Williams and Rodney Eade as 'ready made' coaches not having to be poached as such, and then there's the 'untried' rookie coaches. And if we have to head down the rookie front, surely the present committee is lacking a little 'outside' expertise to assist yes?

Then there's Garry's general view of things. This from earlier in the season (Courtesy of The Age)....

Lyon also knows what he wants to see. ''The next step for Melbourne is, I know we can play nice forward attacking footy, we now have to demand we become mongrel, fierce competitors who despise losing, will fight to the death, will push the boundaries of what is acceptable on a footy field to the very, very edge [but] they are long way off that,'' he said.....

Garry has stated this on more than one occasion in public now (i believe the other was Footy Classified). Given the above from Garry and that he's playing a key broker role, this to me rules out Rodney Eade at this point.

Which leaves us with?

Mark Williams

Things going for him:

- He's presently available.

- He's been to the well once before (ie., pedigree in recent times).

- Appears to fit Garry's "mongrel" mould/view

- Was the Coach who gave birth to Clarkson (who gave birth to "Unsociable Football")

- Might not be quite as expensive, nor expect such a lengthy contract, as is being reported for some of the previous approaches.

Things going against:

- The finish at Port

- His "my way or the highway" style and demeanor (mind you this could also be a positive for us!)

- He gave birth to Bailey (& was loosely reported as 'anointing him' for the position at the MFC in 2007).

- Others that fellow Demonoids will no doubt point out lol

Edited August 27, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[rpfc 27,663]

Eddie McGuire isn't a magician...

He isn't a warlock, a lawyer, or even very smart...

If Malthouse would like to keep coaching - he can come to the Demons in mid-October 2011 and sign his last coaching contract and go out on his terms.

I want Lyon or Malthouse and I think we can get one of them.

And I will say this - if we suddenly go cold on Lyon - M2M would have worked...

[bing181 8,335]

Hardly a coaching committee to hang your hat on.

Depends what they're trying to do. If it's just a get-MM or get-RL coaching committee, they hardly even need to meet.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

I find it hard to believe anyone would hang their hat on a coaching committee at all...

[dee_star 63]

Who said anything about it being a one man show ?

I think it's a one man show High Tower on the basis that Schwab is on his last legs at the club according to the recent media reports, Stynes is obviously battling far more important things than footy and has been encouraged to take time away from the club to look after himself, and the other two on the committee are not footy people. And aside from that, Lyon's will and leadership will override the others anyway.

As I said I'm not having a go at Lyon because I appreciate the fact that he's stood up and helped when it's needed but it concerns me that we're throwing contracts at these current coaches when none of them are actually available, and inevitably we'll end up going through a genuine process to find a Coach and we'll be miles behind Adelaide and the Bulldogs, who have already started genuine processes.

[Demon Dynasty 16,188]

I think it's a one man show High Tower on the basis that Schwab is on his last legs at the club according to the recent media reports, Stynes is obviously battling far more important things than footy and has been encouraged to take time away from the club to look after himself, and the other two on the committee are not footy people. And aside from that, Lyon's will and leadership will override the others anyway.

As I said I'm not having a go at Lyon because I appreciate the fact that he's stood up and helped when it's needed but it concerns me that we're throwing contracts at these current coaches when none of them are actually available, and inevitably we'll end up going through a genuine process to find a Coach and we'll be miles behind Adelaide and the Bulldogs, who have already started genuine processes.

I'm with you on this dee. Lets hope it doesn't come to chasing a rookie.

The board would surely have to change the make up of the present committee if it came to that wouldn't it?

It's just too 'Lyon' focussed for mine as it sits now, which is fine for a poach situation. No issue there.

I also appreciate what Garry's doing, but to think that one man's having so much influence on the outcome given his involvement/influence over the last rookie selection, wouldn't auger well for me.

Need some additional expertise from outside surely. Maybe Lloyd. He's seen the very good in Sheedy along with what comes with it (ie., winning culture), and the not so good under Knights. Good football brain as well and up with the modern game given his recent departure and some high quality analysis/observations on SEN.

Null and void i realise if we do snare a top coach before then.

[rpfc 27,663]

I'm with you on this dee. Lets hope it doesn't come to chasing a rookie.

The board would surely have to change the make up of the present committee if it came to that wouldn't it?

We were widely lauded for the process that got us a coach who didn't last 4 years...

Stop getting so hung up on the process.

Sometimes talking through the list at length, and match simulation at length, and tactics in depth, you don't find the best head coach - you find a very good assistant coach who would like to be a head coach.

I want Malthouse or Lyon, but failing that you go out and get a hardnosed personality to steel the weak minds that are our 'senior' players and you poach some IP from Geelong, Collingwood, and/or Hawthorn.