Rock Bottom

[waikikkamukau 62]

Lame thread.

Great call! Just a serial pessimist. I tipped we would lose by about 20 points because I believed that's were we at with the cattle we had!

[Still Waiting 94]

When Bailey took over we were unsuccessful, soft, poorly coached and badly managed. We have developed this theme extremely well and taken it all to a new level.

Geez a Junior would at least hit the ball hard and lead by example.

Our leaders, including the coaching panel, have made sure of us keeping the other clubs highly amused.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It's a new episode of melodrama every week.

I'll be staggered if anything tops the West Coast loss.

West Coast have belted the Doggies by 123 points today so that puts our effort(?) in to perspective.

Perhaps Eade stayed one year too many?

[Jaded No More 68,915]

West Coast have belted the Doggies by 123 points today so that puts our effort(?) in to perspective.

Perhaps Eade stayed one year too many?

Bloody hell Josh Kennedy is good. We should totes try and trade him for Bate, Newton and Dunn

[Hardnut 327]

Effectively, Josh Kennedy was traded for Chris Judd - in terms of team building for the future, I wonder who's laughing now?

[old dee 23,788]

West Coast have belted the Doggies by 123 points today so that puts our effort(?) in to perspective.

Perhaps Eade stayed one year too many?

How Robbief?

We are not quite as bad as the Dogs!

[Striker475 696]

Effectively, Josh Kennedy was traded for Chris Judd - in terms of team building for the future, I wonder who's laughing now?

Fair call - taking nothing away from Carlton, but you look at their forward issue in terms of still really lacking a CHF and then you look at them trading Kennedy...I know it's Judd, but wow.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

How Robbief?

We are not quite as bad as the Dogs!

No it just shows that the Weagles are a very good unit and that we won't be the only team to lose heavily over there this year.

Josh Kennedy kicked ten for them today and it makes me wonder whether he was allowed to stay in the forward line as the other players flooded back, or if he was part of the "press".

Yesterday we had all our players in the defensive side of the centre when it was in the Saints forward line; I wonder why we don't leave a forward one out with an opposition back waiting for the rebound.

[Hardnut 327]

Nothing personal, but MFC made a massive error in appointing DB and then compounded it by extending his contract (unless they knew several coaches would be on the market at the end of 2011) - time to move on, other clubs have rolled the dice and apparently made good coaching choices, MFC needs to show strength and act decisively before it is too late.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Bloody hell Josh Kennedy is good. We should totes try and trade him for Bate, Newton and Dunn

You know, some people will actually think you're serious....

[old dee 23,788]

No it just shows that the Weagles are a very good unit and that we won't be the only team to lose heavily over there this year.

Josh Kennedy kicked ten for them today and it makes me wonder whether he was allowed to stay in the forward line as the other players flooded back, or if he was part of the "press".

Yesterday we had all our players in the defensive side of the centre when it was in the Saints forward line; I wonder why we don't leave a forward one out with an opposition back waiting for the rebound.

I have been asking that for at least a year but it seems that is not how our game plan works.

You have probably notice how well the plan works, when we get a turn over there is no one to kick it to but what we we know Robbief

[rpfc 28,410]

Nothing personal, but MFC made a massive error in appointing DB and then compounded it by extending his contract (unless they knew several coaches would be on the market at the end of 2011) - time to move on, other clubs have rolled the dice and apparently made good coaching choices, MFC needs to show strength and act decisively before it is too late.

A massive error?

What does a coach leave behind? A list.

Bailey, if he is moved on, would have left this left in very good shape for his successor.

Save for the grey matter between the ears of everyone over 25...

[drdrake 3,163]

When we saw the fixture late last year most of us would of marked the games we expect to win, lose and the 50/50 games. I had us as losing to Hawks, Saints, 50/50 games against Sydney, North and West Coast, and wins against Brisbane, Gold Coast and Adelaide. So for me after 8 games I would have been happy with 4 wins, so we are close. I had us beating Essendon and winning 8 of our last 11. I still think we can win 8 of our last 11, beating Essendon will be tough.

We are a long way from Rock bottom, we talk about our early draft picks that we have had and the young talent on our list. Only 3 players Watts Tapscott, Jurrah from the past 4 years drafts have played in the 8 games we have played.

Top 25 picks

2007

Morton Injury has hurt him again, still lacks the defensive skills, should stay at Casey until this is sorted

Grimes Injured out for the year but is a gun

Maric at the moment our best small forward, was made to earn his spot hopefully can keep getting better, has ability, just neds to work hard

2008

Watts slow start but starting to show his ability. Will still have bad games but is improving, love to see him kick 4 goals in a match

Blease Starting to show the speed and skill at Casey, I would debut him this week

Strauss just can't stay fit. To hard to say if he is any good doesn't seem to be able to string games together

2009

Scully Gun injured expect to be back for Collingwood or Fremantle

Trengove Gun back for Essendon

Gysberts Injured pre-season, coming into form

Tapscott the bull injured this week but is a gun

You imagine in a few weeks when our midfield will be Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, McKenzie, Morton(he will come good), Moloney, Jones, Evans, Bail comes back, with Sylvia, Green, Davey, Maric as back up.

I still can't wait to go to the footy each week to see our young players show something. Ok it is frustrating to lose and lose in the way that we have but our future is still bright.

Add to the above Jurrah and Mckenzie we still have very good reason to be excited about the rest of the year.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Honestly I think we are at Rock bottom right now.

We are no better than when Bailey took over, even if we were tanking and building.

The truth is we can not even beat teams with little or no wins.

We are softer than ever, we look disinterested most of the time.

I cant see how they can turn it around without a major shake up and replacing personal.

Well I accept that you honestly hold these views, but I can't believe it! Further on in this thread, Deeflated [or is it Deflating?] says that although we now have some injuries, we were ordinary before we got them

I couldn't go yesterday-watched every minute on Ch 10, with some pretty decent commentators. Andy Maher, before the game, commented on our injured list, thought we would struggle. Ditto after every break especially after we lost Tapscott. In fact thought that our performance was remarkable. So did I.

It's not the number of players missing injured/suspended--it's the quality of those players.In Scully Trengove Jamar, Grimes one lists 4 of Melbourne's best 8--agreed? Then add Garland and you have 5 out of our best 10--agreed? Then throw in Dunn, Bail, Wonnamiri and you have 2 more of our best 22--agreed? Then throw in Spencer and you mention the most likely replacement for Jamar--agreed? And then you lose Tapscott after 10 minutes.

I don't follow St K but apart from Lenny Hayes, who were they missing from their best 22? How many from their best 8?

Driving home from the bush today I heard the ABC commentary team mention--at 3 quarter time-- how much Collingwood were missing Jolly, Brown and Johnson [and I recall another defender from the G-F team whose name I can't recal] was also missing.Must say I nearly drove off the road I was honestly feeling so sorry for them!.

No middling team can lose that percentage of its best players and hope to do well. I've known bad injuries before but never a fortnight in which we've lost so many--we played Adelaide [remember this Deeflated] with only 2 out of our best missing and won by 96.

Earlier that week I met Viney at a function plus several players whom I won't mention. I was impressed by their absolute determination to succeed--it was after the W.C game, they felt humiliated. Against Adelaide Davey was `excellent, creating havoc with long, magnificent kicks to players running forward. We saw him get injured early last week, thereafter his speed was down. He was plainly uncomfortable yesterday and I'm bloody certain that if it hadn't been for our injured list he would not have played. As to the incident in the 2nd quarter I thought that he simply misjudged the position of the ball, and at the last minute went up one-handed to try to knock it away, realising he wasn't going to mark it.

I mention this because on this post and others he's copped so much [censored]. He is an outstanding player, has kept his head up through some awful games and for people to be so critical is pathetic.Yes I know Bailey didn't mention an injury--he doesn't want to, because he wants him to play on Friday night.

Why are so many of us so bloody angry?People slagging off Jones for heavens sake!, Get a grip on it, cool it, do what you will but stop being so bloody negative. Barely a mention of the great debut of Evans-- a rookie.

I promise you, any raised voices about Bailey leaving mid-season are destructive. Absolutely nothing to be gained and an absolutely diabolical outlook for the players.With this injury list how can Bailey be in jeopardy? Voss was in jeopardy last week--today he is` riding high. God the football media is hopeless!

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Wel

I am not going to enter into the personal epithets, but I would like to express an opinion. I have no doubt that Dean Bailey is a great bloke and his forte is developing young footballers. It is also amply evident that he inherited a terrible list from Neale Daniher, who thought he might have pinched a flag by topping up with a few very questionable hacks and has beens.

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

Under the circumstances, the youth, the re-build which was absolutely necessary and our on-going injuries, I am enough of a realist to accept the inevitable losses that we suffer, on our journey upwards. As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

Are you saying they gave up? I reckon you'd get a decent response if you put that to the players. In the last 10 minutes I saw Moloney charging the packs in desperation, ditto Jones and Evans.Why is it when a team loses some frustrated fans`accuse `them of squibbing it? Did Adelaide squib it today when 'they allowed" Collingwood to come from 23 points down to a 47 point win? In 20 minutes? Of course they didn't.I heard a player interviewed after the match and he was plainly destoyed.

I saw, and have seen absolutely no evidence of a lack of team spirit or hardness at the ball.If you've been watching 47 years I promise you the game has changed. 20 years ago, if level at half time you didn't lose by 8 goals at home, but the Swans `did today. Sides get momentum which is bloody hard to stop-it's happening pretty much to all teams at some stage. Footscray lose by 125--did they give up? Renowned for their fighting spirit.

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned Viney's account of the Hawks, the year before they won the flag, losing by 125 points against P.A in Adelaide.There were calls for Clarkson's head. Good calls?

[stueyspencer no12 73]

When we saw the fixture late last year most of us would of marked the games we expect to win, lose and the 50/50 games. I had us as losing to Hawks, Saints, 50/50 games against Sydney, North and West Coast, and wins against Brisbane, Gold Coast and Adelaide. So for me after 8 games I would have been happy with 4 wins, so we are close. I had us beating Essendon and winning 8 of our last 11. I still think we can win 8 of our last 11, beating Essendon will be tough.

We are a long way from Rock bottom, we talk about our early draft picks that we have had and the young talent on our list. Only 3 players Watts Tapscott, Jurrah from the past 4 years drafts have played in the 8 games we have played.

Top 25 picks

2007

Morton Injury has hurt him again, still lacks the defensive skills, should stay at Casey until this is sorted

Grimes Injured out for the year but is a gun

Maric at the moment our best small forward, was made to earn his spot hopefully can keep getting better, has ability, just neds to work hard

2008

Watts slow start but starting to show his ability. Will still have bad games but is improving, love to see him kick 4 goals in a match

Blease Starting to show the speed and skill at Casey, I would debut him this week

Strauss just can't stay fit. To hard to say if he is any good doesn't seem to be able to string games together

2009

Scully Gun injured expect to be back for Collingwood or Fremantle

Trengove Gun back for Essendon

Gysberts Injured pre-season, coming into form

Tapscott the bull injured this week but is a gun

You imagine in a few weeks when our midfield will be Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, McKenzie, Morton(he will come good), Moloney, Jones, Evans, Bail comes back, with Sylvia, Green, Davey, Maric as back up.

I still can't wait to go to the footy each week to see our young players show something. Ok it is frustrating to lose and lose in the way that we have but our future is still bright.

Add to the above Jurrah and Mckenzie we still have very good reason to be excited about the rest of the year.

You are dead `right! A bit of sense creeping in at last!

[Crompton's the man 659]

You are dead `right! A bit of sense creeping in at last!

Just a quick question

If one took the view that we played fairly well yesterday and lacked a couple of skillful and experienced players to kick the two or three deciding goals

and therefore failed to believe the sky to be either falling in or about to fall in (notwithsanding the likely upcoming pain) would that mean that one was soft in the head?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Effectively, Josh Kennedy was traded for Chris Judd - in terms of team building for the future, I wonder who's laughing now?

Chris Judd was traded for Kennedy, pick 3 (Masten) and pick 20 (Notte - No impact yet). Never let the facts. They lost Judd but they did get 2 players who were going to be very good when they matured.

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

However (injuries accepted), there is no excuse for lack of commitment. Two comments this morning on the channel 9 footy show highlighted the point. Dermott Brereton mentioned that LJ would not need an ice bath, because as sublimely skilled as he is, his intensity at the contest is, at best, tepid. Shane Crawford said, "when it's your turn, you've got to go" - read Aaron Davey. Jack Watts was a highlight for me yesterday, Evans was solid for a debut game, Gysberts is and will be a gun and it is good to see Maric getting more of it, but these guys need to see that they are playing at a club that has strength in its mindset, a mentality that you're there for your mates and the club and that we will never say die.

I ask only these questions. Who instills the required passion and discipline? Who makes sure that a culture exists within the club that sees the playing group left in no doubt what has to be done?

As a supporter of the MFC for 40 plus years, what I cannot accept is a what I perceive to be as a lack of commitment at the contest and what I consider to be a discernible lack of team spirit, which is the fabric of any club, which aspires to greatness.

Who has the job to get that right? Who has the capacity and footy acumen to make sure it is corrected?

There are better ways to assess the commitment of a side than singling out one player or relying on the commentary of one media personality.

We beat the most defensive team in the league in clearances, tackles and contested possessions. That takes commitment. Unfortunately commitment in itself does not prevent skill errors such as Bartrams pass in the third quarter.

At the start of the year we would have been rapt to hold St kilda to a 20 point victory margin. Yes they've lost Hayes and their other key players are out of form, but they were not missing 5 of their best dozen players. We got beaten, but we were level with the Saints in the 3rd and we had periods where we played better football. That is not the form of a rock bottom side. The 7 matches in 2008 that were lost by margins of >75 points. That's rock bottom.

[Rogue 585]

The idea that we're at rock bottom now is ridiculous. I struggle to see how you might think that's the case unless you decided to skip those horrible past few seasons we've had. Saturday's game was far, far better than many matches (including some games this year!).

We're not a good team. We are missing 1/3 of our best team. We then lost a player to injury in the first quarter, but were competitive in most stats, played okay footy at times and were in the game.

Hardly rock bottom.

[H_T 3,044]

The idea that we're at rock bottom now is ridiculous. I struggle to see how you might think that's the case unless you decided to skip those horrible past few seasons we've had. Saturday's game was far, far better than many matches (including some games this year!).

We're not a good team. We are missing 1/3 of our best team. We then lost a player to injury in the first quarter, but were competitive in most stats, played okay footy at times and were in the game.

Hardly rock bottom.

Agree, we have just left Base Camp for the trek up the mountain. But we've forgotten the toilet paper supplies and Davey noted this, so he has just quickly gone back to stock up for the trek ahead.

[Tricky 341]

Agree, we have just left Base Camp for the trek up the mountain. But we've forgotten the toilet paper supplies and Davey noted this, so he has just quickly gone back to stock up for the trek ahead.

A good thing too cause I think we had a really dodgy vindaloo the night before we left.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

There are better ways to assess the commitment of a side than singling out one player or relying on the commentary of one media personality.

We beat the most defensive team in the league in clearances, tackles and contested possessions. That takes commitment. Unfortunately commitment in itself does not prevent skill errors such as Bartrams pass in the third quarter.

At the start of the year we would have been rapt to hold St kilda to a 20 point victory margin. Yes they've lost Hayes and their other key players are out of form, but they were not missing 5 of their best dozen players. We got beaten, but we were level with the Saints in the 3rd and we had periods where we played better football. That is not the form of a rock bottom side. The 7 matches in 2008 that were lost by margins of >75 points. That's rock bottom.

In posting on this thread, I, in no way subscribe to the "rock bottom" scenario. But it seems to me, we accept defeat far too easily and clutch at straws to justify that acceptance. We fail to realise, that while it is self-evident that we are a very young side, we are not, by any means unique. If we want to be truly successful, we need to go beyond the paradigm of youth and seek to reach goals that the football department must surely have set itself. The comparisons to Bulldogs and Saints are odious. Clearly, both are way off the pace of recent years and in my view, have themselves sought to rely on a perceived talented core group, topped up with dubious trades. Their premiership window is fast closing, if not has already been slammed shut. In any case, I see no reason to take consolation out of their seeming demise, in relation to our own performances. The "cultural" issue I have referred to in my previous post, perhaps is at the heart of the Saints malaise and there are lessons there for all clubs to learn. Do we take comfort out of being beaten by a Saints side by 20 points, that is really only a shadow of its former self - less than a year ago?

Both Bate and Petterd have been criticised for their lack of defensive pressure, but consider this. Petterd's first game was as a sub and he was dropped the following week. Bate has been in one week, dropped the next. As we know, this week he was the sub. As mentioned by other posters, he is a "touch"player and he needs time. Not just one week. In my view, these guys' confidence is at a low ebb at present and clearly that lack of confidence is reflected on the field. A lack of confidence is as contagious as an over abundance of it. These guys need more game time, in particular Petterd.

As for the comments made by "one media personality", love him or hate him, he was a more than a reasonable footballer and history shows he never shirked any issue. His criticism was of a senior player, who needs to lead by example. Aaron Davey is greatly talented, but unlike other years, he attracts a hard tag to stifle his run, week in and week out. That is just the reality of professional football. He needs to be able to rise above that, and tactically, he may need assistance from the coach, strategy wise.

Yes, we are a very young side, which is still learning, but that said, I would rather we play the youth - give them a taste at least - than play the likes of Newton, who, to despite his spurts of endeavour, has proven to be inept when the crunch comes.

[John Dee 445]

Meanwhile we miss rookie drafts to keep spots for Newton and Meeson.

Both Newton and Meeson were contracted. They were moved onto the rookie list to free up a draft pick in the main draft. This strategy replaced a rookie pick with a pick some 20-30 picks earlier. Stop re-writing history.

[mauriesy 7,287]

Both Newton and Meeson were contracted. They were moved onto the rookie list to free up a draft pick in the main draft. This strategy replaced a rookie pick with a pick some 20-30 picks earlier. Stop re-writing history.

Well, they could have been sacked and paid out, freeing up spots on the main list and the rookie list.

But who'd want to play for a club that did that?