Memo: Barry Prendergast

[demoniac 1,336]

Draft for Tomorrow.

Trade for Today.

I don't have a problem with our recruiting. I've liked everything I've seen of Cook for Casey. Presents well. Takes contested marks. Good decision making. Good disposal. Can play forward or back. Just needs 3- 5 pre seasons to put on some weight.

As for our coaching its a long long way back for the coaching panel after the Hawthorn and West Coast games.

[Striker475 696]

Draft for Tomorrow.

Trade for Today.

I don't have a problem with our recruiting. I've liked everything I've seen of Cook for Casey. Presents well. Takes contested marks. Good decision making. Good disposal. Can play forward or back. Just needs 3- 5 pre seasons to put on some weight.

As for our coaching its a long long way back for the coaching panel after the Hawthorn and West Coast games.

Related - is Howe playing at Casey? Saw the contested mark he took on Almost Footy Legends last week, very Jack Riewoldt. If we can get that sort of prescence...

[titan_uranus 25,043]

So the recruiters consistently recruit players that are not as good as they believed they would be, and none of them turn in to stars even though they have the pick of the crop, you've come to the conclusion that it's not their fault. I'd imagine most people on here would love you as their boss you certainly set the bar low.

I think we can end this discussion right there, you're delusional.

Every conclusion and statement you've made has been on the back of hindsight.

Every conclusion and statement I've made has been mindful of the fact that the recruiters can do no more than use the knowledge available to make the best educated choice they can.

In 2007, Morton was considered top 5 material. Now we can easily question whether or not, if we re-held that draft today, Morton would be taken fourth. But at the time, there was no such question. So I have no problem with that, even if I am disappointed. Maric, too, was considered top 25, and again, I don't blame the recruiters even though I am frustrated in Maric's lack of development.

You take the view that, since the players have not lived up to their draft position, the recruiters have failed. I take the view that, since at the time these players had the wraps on them, the recruiters did what we should be expecting of them, and that should be enough to satisfy us. You base your view on hindsight, I don't.

[Theo 276]

Hindsight recruiting at its best there Theo.

Interesting that you name Jones in there. Jones was a ready made player and made a good impact in his first year and everyone loved him, but has stagnated recently.

Do people not think that the same could happen to Darling?

As for your comment about Rockliff. Yes he trained with us. But we used that pick on Jurrah. Which would you prefer?

I do agree with you about us physically and mentally weak.

This is not about Rockliff V's Jurrah. The point is Rockliff was available in the National Draft. We selected Strauss, Bennell, Jetta and Bail. Although hindsight is a good thing Rockliff was well known as a footballers footballer or a blue collar type that attracted the footy and kicked goals.

Although other clubs didn't select him in the ND doesen't mean we couldn't have.

In regard to Bennell and Jetta, I understand that the recruiters went to a game to look at Natanui and were impressed with Bennell and Jetta. Even though Neville's mother said that Lewis Jetta was a much better player, we went with Neville. I don't know but maybe the club felt that if we got Bennell it would be easier for him to aclimatise with his mate Jetta with him. (probably wrong but who knows).

Neville is a great kid but I doubt whether he will be an AFL player.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Theo

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Although hindsight is a good thing Rockliff was well known as a footballers footballer or a blue collar type that attracted the footy and kicked goals.

Although other clubs didn't select him in the ND doesen't mean we couldn't have.

And often misused on this forum.

Clearly 16 clubs had misgivings or preferred others. FCS he was taken pick 5 in the PSD. And "blue collar" is not the most emphatic recommendation of a player.

Rockliff is a great story of a player that misses early but works his butt off to succeed. Its early days in assessment of recruits but he has made the right steps.

In regard to Bennell and Jetta, I understand that the recruiters went to a game to look at Natanui and were impressed with Bennell and Jetta.

Bennell and Jetta had been viewed by Club scouts and recruiters a number of times... They were taken at picks 35 and 51 respectively where you really start selecting in the exact science of potential but with flaws. Its exactly the samesceience that ranks Rockliff.

Even though Neville's mother said that Lewis Jetta was a much better player, we went with Neville.

Nevilles' mother?? Lewis might have been a better player but he was taken as pick 18 by Sydney with their first round pick. We took Frawley with pick 12 in that draft. Should we have taken Leroy Jetta instead??

I don't know but maybe the club felt that if we got Bennell it would be easier for him to aclimatise with his mate Jetta with him. (probably wrong but who knows). Neville is a great kid but I doubt whether he will be an AFL player.

Agree.

I dont think Neville will make it but thats why he got taken at pick 51. Have a look at the draft list from that year and tell me which of the player past pick 30 have made it or will make it?

[Theo 276]

And often misused on this forum.

Clearly 16 clubs had misgivings or preferred others. FCS he was taken pick 5 in the PSD. And "blue collar" is not the most emphatic recommendation of a player.

Rockliff is a great story of a player that misses early but works his butt off to succeed. Its early days in assessment of recruits but he has made the right steps.

Bennell and Jetta had been viewed by Club scouts and recruiters a number of times... They were taken at picks 35 and 51 respectively where you really start selecting in the exact science of potential but with flaws. Its exactly the samesceience that ranks Rockliff.

Nevilles' mother?? Lewis might have been a better player but he was taken as pick 18 by Sydney with their first round pick. We took Frawley with pick 12 in that draft. Should we have taken Leroy Jetta instead??

Agree.

I dont think Neville will make it but thats why he got taken at pick 51. Have a look at the draft list from that year and tell me which of the player past pick 30 have made it or will make it?

Frawley was taken in 2006. Lewis Jetta ws drafted in 2009. We knew about him in 2008 but the club has admitted that they did not follow up on Lewis. Big mistake. We could have got him even as a rookie in 2008 along with Neville at pick 51. I think Lewis would have been the better selection than Rhys Healey.

[Guest Gotzy15]

yep that word development is in a way a lack of accountability. There is no doubt Jack Darling is going to be a player

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Every conclusion and statement you've made has been on the back of hindsight.

Every conclusion and statement I've made has been mindful of the fact that the recruiters can do no more than use the knowledge available to make the best educated choice they can.

In 2007, Morton was considered top 5 material. Now we can easily question whether or not, if we re-held that draft today, Morton would be taken fourth. But at the time, there was no such question. So I have no problem with that, even if I am disappointed. Maric, too, was considered top 25, and again, I don't blame the recruiters even though I am frustrated in Maric's lack of development.

You take the view that, since the players have not lived up to their draft position, the recruiters have failed. I take the view that, since at the time these players had the wraps on them, the recruiters did what we should be expecting of them, and that should be enough to satisfy us. You base your view on hindsight, I don't.

See this is where you have a problem, you appear listen to too many "supposed experts" in forming your view. How did you arrive at Morton being viewed as a top 5 draft pick, who said he was? Where in fact did you did you glean that info from, Bigfooty? Who was it that considered Maric top 25, I'd be interested to know where that came from.

Who gave the players you mentioned the "BIG WRAPS"; did you hear any other recruiters mention them or was this once again stuff you got from here or bigfooty? Do you think our recruiters get their info from bigfooty as well or do you think they study the pages of Demonland to see which players have the "BIG WRAPS"

Credibility zero.

[Hannabal 4]

I first saw Rockliff at the G playing for Vic Country and he was fantastic. He kicked 4 goals and moved and marked well. The recruiters knew he could play. From memory he trained with us before the RD. The query on him was what position will he play at AFL level. He was considered to be a mid sized forward and it's a tough gig for those players. History has shown that he's done very well as a half back and now midfielder.

But one thing people need to start realising, the RD is a great recruiting tool. Clubs expect their rookie players to develop into AFL players otherwise they wouldn't recruit them. Some players are more likely to be taken in the RD as opposed to the ND, but the expectation from clubs once they're at the club is the same.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Frawley was taken in 2006. Lewis Jetta ws drafted in 2009. We knew about him in 2008 but the club has admitted that they did not follow up on Lewis. Big mistake. We could have got him even as a rookie in 2008 along with Neville at pick 51. I think Lewis would have been the better selection than Rhys Healey.

Aargh. Too many Jettas.

Point taken on Leroy ...its Lewis.

Lewis Jetta was overlooked by all clubs in the 2007. He like a number of possibles that miss out is on very clubs radar. He went and played county football in 2008. I dont think he was registered for either draft in 2008. He did not come to prominence as a footballer until 2009 with Swan Districts. You need to realise that MFC have one of the smallest football departments in the AFL. The Big footy departments did not track Jetta either. Big mistake...hardly. Too much hindsight and hair splitting.

[Nasher 33,617]

From memory he trained with us before the RD.

My memory has it that he did and we were prepared to take him until Liam Jurrah unexpectedly came on to the radar. Brisbane took him at 5 in the PSD so that lends it some weight.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

See this is where you have a problem, you appear listen to too many "supposed experts" in forming your view. How did you arrive at Morton being viewed as a top 5 draft pick, who said he was? Where in fact did you did you glean that info from, Bigfooty? Who was it that considered Maric top 25, I'd be interested to know where that came from.

Who gave the players you mentioned the "BIG WRAPS"; did you hear any other recruiters mention them or was this once again stuff you got from here or bigfooty? Do you think our recruiters get their info from bigfooty as well or do you think they study the pages of Demonland to see which players have the "BIG WRAPS"

Credibility zero.

Matt Burgan: "Melbourne won't believe its luck that a player some recruiting managers regard as the best in the draft will slip through to No.4"

Source: http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NABAFLDraftBlogwithMattBurgan/BlogArticle/tabid/8123/Default.aspx?newsId=53419

And from the same source: "It is understood West Coast is extremely keen to secure Maric with its third selection. Melbourne (potentially at No.14, but more likely No.21) is another club closely monitoring his whereabouts, with Port Adelaide (No.16), Geelong (No.17), Richmond (No.18) and Essendon (No.23) also in the mix. Viewed as a No.10-25 selection, several recruiters believe Maric is by far the best kick in the draft – a massive attribute. "

Just one example, sure, but I can't be bothered wasting any more time on you.

Edited May 2, 2011 by titan_uranus

[Rogue 585]

Those players you mention would quickly toughen up with the right coach.

If you just changed your signature to 'Sack the Coach' you'd save yourself having to write a variation on the same thing for every post you make in this thread.

[Supermercado 2,802]

Matt Burgan: "Melbourne won't believe its luck that a player some recruiting managers regard as the best in the draft will slip through to No.4"

Source: http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NABAFLDraftBlogwithMattBurgan/BlogArticle/tabid/8123/Default.aspx?newsId=53419

And from the same source: "It is understood West Coast is extremely keen to secure Maric with its third selection. Melbourne (potentially at No.14, but more likely No.21) is another club closely monitoring his whereabouts, with Port Adelaide (No.16), Geelong (No.17), Richmond (No.18) and Essendon (No.23) also in the mix. Viewed as a No.10-25 selection, several recruiters believe Maric is by far the best kick in the draft – a massive attribute. "

Just one example, sure, but I can't be bothered wasting any more time on you.

I'm not having a crack at you because those two were widely known to be going exactly where they did but the comments in that article don't always stand up to what actually happened... Probably our recruiters who thought the skeletal Notte was the next big thing!

17 – GEELONG – TONY NOTTE

Swan Districts, WA, Tall forward, April 15 1990, 194.5cm, 71.5kg

Geelong has its eye firmly on Notte. He is highly rated among the recruiting fraternity, with one believing he has the potential to be the best player from this draft. It would be an interesting scenario if Patrick Dangerfield fell, as he had been earmarked at No.17 until he kept climbing up the order. Scott Selwood also seems unlikely to last until this pick. Don't discount Notte for Sydney (No.11) or Melbourne (No.14). West Coast is also keen but would have to claim him at No.13 – he won't last to No.20 or No.22 now.

Bio: A lightly built tall forward with excellent hands. Strong both in the air and below his knees. He is quick and agile for a player of his size and capable of playing as a key back. Excellent on the lead and a good reader of the play. He is a graduate of the 2006/07 AIS-AFL Academy and was a member of the squad that toured South Africa in April. From Upper Swan FC.

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

If you just changed your signature to 'Sack the Coach' you'd save yourself having to write a variation on the same thing for every post you make in this thread.

Not at all, but i still shall always wonder how our list would be coached by a Top Line Football Dept. The Crows had 9 players who have played 20 games or less last saturday night, so we have no excuses next sunday.

I actually do not want to Sack the Coach or our Assistants, but if we do not play with Passion & Commitment in 2011, then they will not survive.

First Quarter last week 22-3 inside 50's. The next 4 weeks will tell a lot.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Matt Burgan: "Melbourne won't believe its luck that a player some recruiting managers regard as the best in the draft will slip through to No.4"

Source: http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NABAFLDraftBlogwithMattBurgan/BlogArticle/tabid/8123/Default.aspx?newsId=53419

And from the same source: "It is understood West Coast is extremely keen to secure Maric with its third selection. Melbourne (potentially at No.14, but more likely No.21) is another club closely monitoring his whereabouts, with Port Adelaide (No.16), Geelong (No.17), Richmond (No.18) and Essendon (No.23) also in the mix. Viewed as a No.10-25 selection, several recruiters believe Maric is by far the best kick in the draft – a massive attribute. "

Just one example, sure, but I can't be bothered wasting any more time on you.

So that's it? Matt Burgan? That's all you've got? So Port, Geelong and Richmond were looking at him too were they, then how come if this was the case none of them took him? All Burgan guesswork.

As I said credibility zero.

And I appreciate you not wasting any more of my time.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

So that's it? Matt Burgan? That's all you've got? So Port, Geelong and Richmond were looking at him too were they, then how come if this was the case none of them took him? All Burgan guesswork.

As I said credibility zero.

And I appreciate you not wasting any more of my time.

If you read what I wrote you'll find that I couldn't be bothered looking for any others. And I still can't.

You seem totally incapable of grasping the idea that you're pathetic argument that the recruiters aren't any good is based almost entirely on the benefit of hindsight.

And I appreciate you not wasting any more of anyone's time.

[Redleg 41,427]

In regards to Liam Jarrah,the story I heard was that Collingwood tried to hide him in the top end of Australia so they could pick him up for not much.Maybe this is why the recruiting department thought he was so good.Not as big a risk if you know Collingwood wanted him.

Incorrect.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If you read what I wrote you'll find that I couldn't be bothered looking for any others. And I still can't.

You seem totally incapable of grasping the idea that you're pathetic argument that the recruiters aren't any good is based almost entirely on the benefit of hindsight.

And I appreciate you not wasting any more of anyone's time.

Generally when someone says "they can't be bothered looking" means they simply can't find any way to substantiate their argument, I get the picture.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's the point isn't it? Rightly or wrongly, it was a strategic decision to bring in a tall?

A plug n play draft pick sitting in the forward line isn't much good in a side functioning the way Melbourne are currently. Dropping a C.Judd in the middle would be a different story of course..

"They (tall players) were all there at the pick. This year the planets aligned a little bit ... [Lucas] Cook's kicking and decision-making was as good there was in this draft." BARRY PRENDERGAST, recruiting manager

2010 draft by club

I've seen it, and agree. he has the ability to spot up a target beautifully. And vision.

I'm happy with Cook.

Heppell would have been nice but the tanking/refueling Bombers, took him earlier than our pick.

Edited May 4, 2011 by dee-luded

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Generally when someone says "they can't be bothered looking" means they simply can't find any way to substantiate their argument, I get the picture.

Sigh...

Emma Quayle's top 25 for 2007 (URL is dead, this is from a forum which posted it):

3. Cale Morton

(Claremont. 17, 192cm, 79kg) Plenty of clubs would take the third Morton brother if they had the No. 1 pick.

Others dropped away after his finals series, where he was subjected to some close opposition attention.

Morton boasts elite skills, especially for his size, and his running power.

He's a true utility and he has all the attributes to thrive in today's precise, uncontested game.

Jon Ralph:

HIGHLY rated youngster Cale Morton, touted as West Coast's replacement for Chris Judd at pick three, is likely to slip down to Melbourne at pick four.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/eagles-lose-on-draft-ruling/story-e6frf9k6-1111114902197

AFLInsider.net:

AFLinsider.net prediction:

The Eagles were in a position to draft Jarryd Morton last season but went in a different direction and J Morton made his way to Hawthorn. This time around the Eagles are not going to have any chance at drafting Cale Morton, unless they trade up into the early picks. If the Eagles package their first round pick, Mitch Brown and another player or pick it should get them into the top 5 where Cale Morton would be the choice. There is a good chance of the Eagles wanting to make a trade to acquire him, if they don't get a trade done then Adelaide, Essendon or the Bulldogs could be where he goes in the first round.

http://www.aflinsider.net/2007-afl-draft-prospect-cale-morton/

On draft day Emma Quayle wrote this:

If Carlton drafts Cotchin over Kreuzer, Morton is a big chance for Richmond at No. 2. Otherwise, he will make it through to the Demons.

http://www.adelaideclubs.com.au/adelaide-clubs-articles/2007/11/24/2007-national-draft-the-top-10/

OK? So there was a general perception in AFL circles that Cale Morton was a top 5 pick. Satisfied yet?

[Geddy Lee 582]

"He's a true utility and he has all the attributes to thrive in today's precise, uncontested game."

[Guest Artie Bucco]

At the time it was true.

For a while there Andrew Mackie looked like a gun player because of the way the game was played.

In a similarly successful system Morton could flourish.

[H_T 3,049]

Sigh...

Well argued titan_, over to you RobbieF.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

well said titan