Jake Spencer

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

First time I've posted something in a while, but after Sundays game I want to ask something.

What does Jake Spencer actually bring to the table? This is not intended as a player bashing, I just legitimately would like to know what people think of him.

Ok, granted the guy can compete in the ruck as he is very tall. But it seems to me that he is an absolute liability everywhere else on the ground. He knows where to run to get the ball, but then when he has it its almost a guaranteed turnover - especially if he has to kick the ball! Add to that his extremely poor marking (ie. dropping two marks when he was 20 metres in the clear), and I just don't see what he adds to the team. Jamar has been playing great as a lone ruckman - why not continue in this mould?

If Jamar needs a rest, I actually thought Sylvia wasn't doing too badly when he was in the centre. And if we need to have a 2nd ruckman in the team, I would much prefer Paul Johnson. Yes, I know he has gone backwards in leaps and bounds, but surely he is better than the Spencil?

On another note, I think Jack Watts has begun to find his feet in the past few weeks.

Edited July 5, 2010 by dees_rule_4eva

[Steamin Demon 370]

I think the less said is better.

[deeflog 679]

On another note, I think Jack Watts has begun to find his feet in the past few weeks.

pardon the pun???

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

pardon the pun???

Didn't intend it!!

Interesting that at Docklands where the turf is the worst in the league, he looked very sure-footed.

But thats off-topic, this is about Spencer.

[Red Sox 2]

Should we really run Jamar into the ground for the remainder of the season when looking at the bigger picture, ie - 2011/2012 and onwards? I think this needs to be part of the argument as the Sylvia's/Miller's that have chopped out Russian have struggled.

Big Spence has a long long way to go, but IMO there is some upside to him. It was mentioned how unco Cox was early in his career (I guess this was why he was rookie listed!) but look at him now.

The ball seems to find him a bit, like a 3rd man bowler trying to avoid a catch in front of Bay 13 maybe! But I reckon he could get better. It would not be good if Russian went missing and Spence carried the load.

We might even sneak a peak at Fitpatrick late in the year?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,272]

First time I've posted something in a while, but after Sundays game I want to ask something.

What does Jake Spencer actually bring to the table? This is not intended as a player bashing, I just legitimately would like to know what people think of him.

Nothing at this time that cannot be more aptly provided by a true part timer in Miller, Newton or Dunn. It is well documented that ruckmen take time and he should continue to be persevered with at Casey.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I thought Spencer showed a bit of promise his skill level is appalling at the moment but I reckon he will develop. I was praying that someone would take a handball when he had a kick in the back pocket in the last quarter but the players didn't give him that option so he had to kick to a contest, that's not his fault.

He tries to get to as many contests as he can and that's a big part of playing in the ruck.

[Redleg 37,891]

I thought Spencer showed a bit of promise his skill level is appalling at the moment but I reckon he will develop. He tries to get to as many contests as he can and that's a big part of playing in the ruck.

Agree. He has put on a fair bit of weight and is big and ungainly, but doesn't lack for courage or effort. His skills are poor to say the least but he took a couple of grabs, got some hitouts to advantage and is slowly improving. Like many young ruckmen he needs time and games. Whereas PJ has been given chances and failed this guy has his chance and the next season or two will tell if he is to make it.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

When I saw Spencer named I was worried to say the least, but I actually thought his first 3 quarters were pretty good. But he made 3 or 4 horrible clangers in the last quarter though.

[Demon Disciple 11,066]

Jake Spencer just does not have it, plain and simple. He is not a footballer, and so many people were hoping and saying that he would fix our ruck problems, all we needed to do is give him time. The only problem is, if you have no natural talent to play AFL, no matter how much development goes into you, you simply will not get anywhere close to AFL standard. The problem we now face, is that we have rookie'd him for 3 years and i think as a result, we have to promote him onto the senior list.

He will just take up space on our senior list, that's not being cruel, just realistic.

[Demonworship 5]

Spot on DJ. People seem to forget that it takes years and years to develop big players. It wasn't that many years ago that people were writing off Jamar. Spencer is still raw but he shows plenty of promise and aggro. He will grow into the role, just as Jamar did

Should we really run Jamar into the ground for the remainder of the season when looking at the bigger picture, ie - 2011/2012 and onwards? I think this needs to be part of the argument as the Sylvia's/Miller's that have chopped out Russian have struggled.

Big Spence has a long long way to go, but IMO there is some upside to him. It was mentioned how unco Cox was early in his career (I guess this was why he was rookie listed!) but look at him now.

The ball seems to find him a bit, like a 3rd man bowler trying to avoid a catch in front of Bay 13 maybe! But I reckon he could get better. It would not be good if Russian went missing and Spence carried the load.

We might even sneak a peak at Fitpatrick late in the year?

[Inner Demon 1]

Jake Spencer just does not have it, plain and simple. He is not a footballer, and so many people were hoping and saying that he would fix our ruck problems, all we needed to do is give him time. The only problem is, if you have no natural talent to play AFL, no matter how much development goes into you, you simply will not get anywhere close to AFL standard. The problem we now face, is that we have rookie'd him for 3 years and i think as a result, we have to promote him onto the senior list.

He will just take up space on our senior list, that's not being cruel, just realistic.

We're under absolutely no obligation to promote anybody to the senior list regardless of how long they've been on our rookie list.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Agree. He has put on a fair bit of weight and is big and ungainly, but doesn't lack for courage or effort. His skills are poor to say the least but he took a couple of grabs, got some hitouts to advantage and is slowly improving. Like many young ruckmen he needs time and games. Whereas PJ has been given chances and failed this guy has his chance and the next season or two will tell if he is to make it.

I agree. He needs time and is clearly not ready for senior footy. He is playing only because we don't have another feasible option other than flogging the dead horse that is PJ.

Fitzpatrick will be given a run in the second ruck/forward role sometime. Maybe soon. I thought he looked ok playing this role at Werribee on Sat.

Edited July 5, 2010 by dandeeman

[Dockett 32 1,213]

I dont remember a young Blake or Cox being all that co-ordinated early on in their careers either. He's essentially on the Rookie list and a very big unit. He also has a crack. We haven't got too many big blokes at the moment as far as I can see, so let's not be too hasty.

[PeterJames 46]

I actually would prefer PJ than Spencer.Spencer is just barely VFL standard. Annoys me seeing guys getting games because they are big.

[Axis of Bob 10,266]

I really liked his game on the weekend. I thought it was a really positive step for him to compete with a guy like Gardiner and look pretty good against him in ruck contests.

The co-ordination with really tall players can often take time. As they grow they have more control over their limbs and he's starting to fill out. This is something that will naturally improve with time.

What he does have is really good aggression for the ruck contests and great competitiveness. As the game becomes more about the quick transitions and games played at high speed, the role of a ruckman around the ground becomes less important. What is important is their ability to influence the contests in close through aggression and bodywork, just like Jamar has been doing this year. Spencer works hard around the stoppages and is actually very good in ruck contests, which is unusual this early in a project ruckman's career.

Look at Darren Jolly, the poster boy for aggressive tap ruckmen, in his first games and see how effective he was in the ruck. He played 22 games in his first 2 years, averaging 5.2 hitouts per game. Jake is younger than Jolly at that point is his career and is averaging 11.4 hitouts per game, include games of 16, 20 and 17 (this weekend) hitouts, all of which were better that any of Jolly's first 22 games.

As for disposals, it wasn't until 2008 that Jolly averaged more than 10 disposals a game. Spencer averages 6.9 at the moment, which isn't too bad for a player of his style at this stage of his career and his age.

People judge these sorts of players far too early. He looks uncoordinated, so people automatically judge that he's no good and no amount of what he actually does will change their opinion. I think Spencer was good on the weekend for the most part, very promising at stages, and I'm very happy with how he is progressing.

[old dee 22,946]

I really liked his game on the weekend. I thought it was a really positive step for him to compete with a guy like Gardiner and look pretty good against him in ruck contests.

The co-ordination with really tall players can often take time. As they grow they have more control over their limbs and he's starting to fill out. This is something that will naturally improve with time.

What he does have is really good aggression for the ruck contests and great competitiveness. As the game becomes more about the quick transitions and games played at high speed, the role of a ruckman around the ground becomes less important. What is important is their ability to influence the contests in close through aggression and bodywork, just like Jamar has been doing this year. Spencer works hard around the stoppages and is actually very good in ruck contests, which is unusual this early in a project ruckman's career.

Look at Darren Jolly, the poster boy for aggressive tap ruckmen, in his first games and see how effective he was in the ruck. He played 22 games in his first 2 years, averaging 5.2 hitouts per game. Jake is younger than Jolly at that point is his career and is averaging 11.4 hitouts per game, include games of 16, 20 and 17 (this weekend) hitouts, all of which were better that any of Jolly's first 22 games.

As for disposals, it wasn't until 2008 that Jolly averaged more than 10 disposals a game. Spencer averages 6.9 at the moment, which isn't too bad for a player of his style at this stage of his career and his age.

People judge these sorts of players far too early. He looks uncoordinated, so people automatically judge that he's no good and no amount of what he actually does will change their opinion. I think Spencer was good on the weekend for the most part, very promising at stages, and I'm very happy with how he is progressing.

You have my vote the above says it all with Jake and if we can give the likes of PJ and Jamar a number of years surely we can invest another year or two in Spencer.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Should we really run Jamar into the ground for the remainder of the season when looking at the bigger picture, ie - 2011/2012 and onwards? I think this needs to be part of the argument as the Sylvia's/Miller's that have chopped out Russian have struggled.

Big Spence has a long long way to go, but IMO there is some upside to him. It was mentioned how unco Cox was early in his career (I guess this was why he was rookie listed!) but look at him now.

The ball seems to find him a bit, like a 3rd man bowler trying to avoid a catch in front of Bay 13 maybe! But I reckon he could get better. It would not be good if Russian went missing and Spence carried the load.

We might even sneak a peak at Fitpatrick late in the year?

"Should we really run Jamar into the ground for the remainder of the season when looking at the bigger picture, ie - 2011/2012 and onwards? I think this needs to be part of the argument as the Sylvia's/Miller's that have chopped out Russian have struggled".

I agree, that the Russian needs a chopout, here & there. And Spence needs some gametime to develop a little, before the Casey Finals.

"We might even sneak a peak at Fitpatrick late in the year"?

I think, maybe Fitzy could wait till next preseason.

Edited July 5, 2010 by dee-luded

[DemonSG 1]

First time I've posted something in a while, but after Sundays game I want to ask something.

What does Jake Spencer actually bring to the table? This is not intended as a player bashing, I just legitimately would like to know what people think of him.

Ok, granted the guy can compete in the ruck as he is very tall. But it seems to me that he is an absolute liability everywhere else on the ground. He knows where to run to get the ball, but then when he has it its almost a guaranteed turnover - especially if he has to kick the ball! Add to that his extremely poor marking (ie. dropping two marks when he was 20 metres in the clear), and I just don't see what he adds to the team. Jamar has been playing great as a lone ruckman - why not continue in this mould?

If Jamar needs a rest, I actually thought Sylvia wasn't doing too badly when he was in the centre. And if we need to have a 2nd ruckman in the team, I would much prefer Paul Johnson. Yes, I know he has gone backwards in leaps and bounds, but surely he is better than the Spencil?

Good that you have not postered for a while(or gone to the footy so it seems). Go out to casey and see the guy play at that level and what he has learned so far. He has something to offer and will need time, but he has the goods. Jamar with Johnson backup, where have you been. Johnson will only play another senior game if Jamar is hurt. And Sylvia a ruck, what are you on, he plays forward and mid does he not, and can you remind me of his height?. and by the way, the last time a Spencer played with the Dees, guess what, we won a flag!

On another note, I think Jack Watts has begun to find his feet in the past few weeks.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And Spence needs some gametime to develop a little, before the Casey Finals.

If we are using Spencer for that reason then someone in MFC football dept needs the chop themselves.

I trust this is not the case.

[deewakka 1]

When I saw Spencer named I was worried to say the least, but I actually thought his first 3 quarters were pretty good. But he made 3 or 4 horrible clangers in the last quarter though.

For Deemons sake give him a break he's only a kid as far as ruckmen go surely he showed improvement on his past showings we know he has a lot to learn but maybe we send him to sydney like a kid named Jolly where he may also win a premiership and we will miss out again SUPPORT them dont ridicule them the last time we had a spencer in the team we did win a lot of flags lets hope its that way again

[Jaded No More 58,583]

I really liked his game on the weekend. I thought it was a really positive step for him to compete with a guy like Gardiner and look pretty good against him in ruck contests.

The co-ordination with really tall players can often take time. As they grow they have more control over their limbs and he's starting to fill out. This is something that will naturally improve with time.

What he does have is really good aggression for the ruck contests and great competitiveness. As the game becomes more about the quick transitions and games played at high speed, the role of a ruckman around the ground becomes less important. What is important is their ability to influence the contests in close through aggression and bodywork, just like Jamar has been doing this year. Spencer works hard around the stoppages and is actually very good in ruck contests, which is unusual this early in a project ruckman's career.

Look at Darren Jolly, the poster boy for aggressive tap ruckmen, in his first games and see how effective he was in the ruck. He played 22 games in his first 2 years, averaging 5.2 hitouts per game. Jake is younger than Jolly at that point is his career and is averaging 11.4 hitouts per game, include games of 16, 20 and 17 (this weekend) hitouts, all of which were better that any of Jolly's first 22 games.

As for disposals, it wasn't until 2008 that Jolly averaged more than 10 disposals a game. Spencer averages 6.9 at the moment, which isn't too bad for a player of his style at this stage of his career and his age.

People judge these sorts of players far too early. He looks uncoordinated, so people automatically judge that he's no good and no amount of what he actually does will change their opinion. I think Spencer was good on the weekend for the most part, very promising at stages, and I'm very happy with how he is progressing.

Great post.

I thought he played quite well and showed really good signs. I particularly liked his marks, because that is the sort of thing I want from a ruckman. I don't give a shite that Jamar can't kick, and neither does our footy department obviously. If they can tap to advantage and impact contests with their strength then that's all I want. The only kicking he has to work on is his goal kicking, just as Jamar has.

As I've said before, he shows a lot more than Jamar did at this stage of his career.

[dee-luded 2,958]

People judge these sorts of players far too early. He looks uncoordinated, so people automatically judge that he's no good and no amount of what he actually does will change their opinion. I think Spencer was good on the weekend for the most part, very promising at stages, and I'm very happy with how he is progressing.

I agree wholeheartedly, AoB.

Chris Connelly likes his style as well.

[DeeSpencer 23,273]

I can't believe how harshly he is marked considering how bad Jamar was for years. Spencer is every bit as good as Jamar at 21.

Hasn't everyone heard the stories of how unco Dean Cox was when he first joined WC.

Spencer is still worth his spot on the rookie list and as Miller/Newton/PJ aren't part of what I predict the MFC future is, then I see no reason to not play big Spence.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I can't believe how harshly he is marked considering how bad Jamar was for years. Spencer is every bit as good as Jamar at 21.

Hasn't everyone heard the stories of how unco Dean Cox was when he first joined WC.

Spencer is still worth his spot on the rookie list and as Miller/Newton/PJ aren't part of what I predict the MFC future is, then I see no reason to not play big Spence.

And I made the mistake a couple of years back when I saw the two gangly Nth rucks over @ the Port ground & thought they were useless. But could see the potential in Jamar.

I hadn't seen enough of those North boys to really comment at that stage & I was wrong.

I have seen things in spencers game I like, @ VFL level.