Ball's Choice Collingwood or Essendon

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Ha ha and i rest my case. Thats all you can say? Clearly you are embarassed and are now aware of what rubbish you were writing.

But can you answer my question please...if you have one..

"I don't want anyone bagging this club as unprofessional, particularly if their own conduct is, objectively, a mile off the pace".

And are you saying Ball called us unprofessional? If so when and where did he say this?

I have stated my position, I think quite clearly.

Ball elected:

1. not to engage in detailed discussions with the MFC prior to draft nominations; and

2. nominated for the national draft, rather than the PSD, which clearly evinces an intention not to go to the Dees. This cannot be controverted, as it is clearly in the club's interests to use each of picks 1,2,11&18 on promising juniors.

It is also relevant that the club publicly declared its interest in the player. From media reports, Ball appears to have largely disregarded this gesture of good faith by the club. The MFC, to my knowledge, has not publicly declared any interest in Bradshaw or any other experienced players - hence, there is no reason nor obligation for club or player to sit down and discuss things.

All you say in response is essentially "no one knows this or that". It is perhaps a convenient approach to take, yet it is a wholly ridiculous approach to take - but you can do so if you like, as you appear unable to put any cogent arguments together.

Keep playing the man rather than the ball. It matters not to me, but it is tedious trying to debate with someone such as you.

[rpfc 27,611]

I have stated my position, I think quite clearly.

Ball elected:

1. not to engage in detailed discussions with the MFC prior to draft nominations; and

2. nominated for the national draft, rather than the PSD, which clearly evinces an intention not to go to the Dees. This cannot be controverted, as it is clearly in the club's interests to use each of picks 1,2,11&18 on promising juniors.

It is also relevant that the club publicly declared its interest in the player. From media reports, Ball appears to have largely disregarded this gesture of good faith by the club. The MFC, to my knowledge, has not publicly declared any interest in Bradshaw or any other experienced players - hence, there is no reason nor obligation for club or player to sit down and discuss things.

All you say in response is essentially "no one knows this or that". It is perhaps a convenient approach to take, yet it is a wholly ridiculous approach to take - but you can do so if you like, as you appear unable to put any cogent arguments together.

Keep playing the man rather than the ball. It matters not to me, but it is tedious trying to debate with someone such as you.

Doesn't want to be at the club.

That is your argument.

Everyone agrees.

I refuse to rule out the idea of taking Ball with Pick 18, because I don't think we club should be, or are, in the habit of taking recruiting advice from an old Xaverian who is trying assert control over a situation in which he has none.

[beelzebub 22,271]

I refuse to rule out the idea of taking Ball with Pick 18, because I don't think we club should be, or are, in the habit of taking recruiting advice from an old Xaverian who is trying assert control over a situation in which he has none.

tsk tsk tsk...... you arent very observant and that surprises me. No control.? lol what do you think he's been doing all along. ?

Control.. the power to direct...or determine.

He left StKilda... his own volition. He entered ND...own decision.. Not to engage the MFC...his action.

Only time will tell whether all of his scheme pans out, but to suggest he has NO control.....a bit of a stretch

[Brayshaws' Helmet 143]

I'm looking at Daw for pick 11 but if he's gone by then you're in HT

maybe you guys should kiss, i love it when 2 chicks make out

[rpfc 27,611]

tsk tsk tsk...... you arent very observant and that surprises me. No control.? lol what do you think he's been doing all along. ?

Control.. the power to direct...or determine.

He left StKilda... his own volition. He entered ND...own decision.. Not to engage the MFC...his action.

Only time will tell whether all of his scheme pans out, but to suggest he has NO control.....a bit of a stretch

Embellishment to find the truth.

He doesn't want to meet with us because he wants us to get the idea. The 'idea' being 'I don't want to play with you.'

Right now. At this instance. With everything signed and set in concrete. With the rules of the draft being the rules of the draft - he has no control.

There is nothing he can do to positively affect where he wants to ply his trade other than indifferent gestures (no meeting with the MFC), leaks (Connors telling journos he doesn't want to go to the MFC) and benign threats (Connors purporting that he will travel for 12 months if taken by a club he doesn't want to go to).

We have more power over where Luke Ball plays footy next year than Luke Ball, and it must be incredibly humbling.

[Sir Why You Little 34,767]

Embellishment to find the truth.

He doesn't want to meet with us because he wants us to get the idea. The 'idea' being 'I don't want to play with you.'

Right now. At this instance. With everything signed and set in concrete. With the rules of the draft being the rules of the draft - he has no control.

There is nothing he can do to positively affect where he wants to ply his trade other than indifferent gestures (no meeting with the MFC), leaks (Connors telling journos he doesn't want to go to the MFC) and benign threats (Connors purporting that he will travel for 12 months if taken by a club he doesn't want to go to).

We have more power over where Luke Ball plays footy next year than Luke Ball, and it must be incredibly humbling.

Correct. Whether we take him or not at present we are in control of his destiny more so than he is....Sleep tight Lukey....

[Don24 103]

I have stated my position, I think quite clearly.

Ball elected:

1. not to engage in detailed discussions with the MFC prior to draft nominations; and

2. nominated for the national draft, rather than the PSD, which clearly evinces an intention not to go to the Dees. This cannot be controverted, as it is clearly in the club's interests to use each of picks 1,2,11&18 on promising juniors.

It is also relevant that the club publicly declared its interest in the player. From media reports, Ball appears to have largely disregarded this gesture of good faith by the club. The MFC, to my knowledge, has not publicly declared any interest in Bradshaw or any other experienced players - hence, there is no reason nor obligation for club or player to sit down and discuss things.

All you say in response is essentially "no one knows this or that". It is perhaps a convenient approach to take, yet it is a wholly ridiculous approach to take - but you can do so if you like, as you appear unable to put any cogent arguments together.

Keep playing the man rather than the ball. It matters not to me, but it is tedious trying to debate with someone such as you.

You still havnt answered the question,

"I don't want anyone bagging this club as unprofessional, particularly if their own conduct is, objectively, a mile off the pace".

And are you saying Ball called us unprofessional? If so when and where did he say this?

I think you are talking around an answer because you have none that makes any sense. Ball has never called us unprofessional or bagged our club as you have made up. All he has done, which we all agree with, is indicate he does not want to play for us next season. We agree on that 100%. But i just can not understand why you think he is obligated to publicly come out and pretend to be interested in our club? His manager has been in discussions in with the club and no doubt clearly indicated where Ball stands, their by addressing our interest.

I don't know what more you expect from him? To make a press statement thanking us for our interest but kindly declining it so that our upset supporters can have some closure?

"From media reports, Ball appears to have largely disregarded this gesture of good faith by the club." What media reports indicate anything more than Ball, through his management have told Melbourne "thanks but i do not want to play for your club" ?? Your clutching at straws here...

Seeing as your ducking my other question il ask one final simple question.... If ball does not want to come to our club, which is entirely his decision and he has no obligation to want to play for us......what would you have wanted him to do or say that would have made him seem less immature and unprofessional as you have described him?? Simple question.... answer??

[beelzebub 22,271]

Embellishment to find the truth.

He doesn't want to meet with us because he wants us to get the idea. The 'idea' being 'I don't want to play with you.'

Right now. At this instance. With everything signed and set in concrete. With the rules of the draft being the rules of the draft - he has no control.

There is nothing he can do to positively affect where he wants to ply his trade other than indifferent gestures (no meeting with the MFC), leaks (Connors telling journos he doesn't want to go to the MFC) and benign threats (Connors purporting that he will travel for 12 months if taken by a club he doesn't want to go to).

We have more power over where Luke Ball plays footy next year than Luke Ball, and it must be incredibly humbling.

He has made it fairly and abundantly clear he doesnt want to play for us.. he wont.

He may end up at another club.. but its highly doubtful it will be Melbourne....and in that he succeeds.

You conveniently ignore his journey so far.

Melbourne wont take him....Bails let that cat out of the bag...anything since is smoke and mirrors bluff and bravado designed to encourage others to forfeit an earlier pick than otherwise needed bettering our position. He will in all likely hood go to Nth, Essendon or the Lions

oh btw...its not I who's embellishing anything....just simply stating what has happened to date...hardly embellishing.. alas... you extoll his threats and such to further your supposed 'reasoning" . I left that out as its all but extraneous and irrelevent to the facts.

Edited November 17, 2009 by belzebub59

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

You still havnt answered the question,

"I don't want anyone bagging this club as unprofessional, particularly if their own conduct is, objectively, a mile off the pace".

And are you saying Ball called us unprofessional? If so when and where did he say this?

I think you are talking around an answer because you have none that makes any sense. Ball has never called us unprofessional or bagged our club as you have made up. All he has done, which we all agree with, is indicate he does not want to play for us next season. We agree on that 100%. But i just can not understand why you think he is obligated to publicly come out and pretend to be interested in our club? His manager has been in discussions in with the club and no doubt clearly indicated where Ball stands, their by addressing our interest.

I don't know what more you expect from him? To make a press statement thanking us for our interest but kindly declining it so that our upset supporters can have some closure?

"From media reports, Ball appears to have largely disregarded this gesture of good faith by the club." What media reports indicate anything more than Ball, through his management have told Melbourne "thanks but i do not want to play for your club" ?? Your clutching at straws here...

Seeing as your ducking my other question il ask one final simple question.... If ball does not want to come to our club, which is entirely his decision and he has no obligation to want to play for us......what would you have wanted him to do or say that would have made him seem less immature and unprofessional as you have described him?? Simple question.... answer??

I cannot believe I am engaging in this debate with you to be honest.

For the avoidance of all doubt, it is my view that the professional approach for an AFL player in Luke Ball's circumstances would be:

1. to accept the MFC's invitation so that it could present what it had in mind for him, and also to allow it to attempt address any of his (possibly legitimate) concerns about the club; and

2. then to make an informed and considered decision about the merits or otherwise about joining the club, which may quite reasonably be that he doesn't want to.

This would be the professional approach in the circumstances, Don24 - it's simple. And that discussion should've occurred prior to nominations for the national draft.

It is plainly obvious through Ball's conduct that he does not regard the MFC as a viable club for him. That's fine. However, as a supporter of this club, I don't want it to commit to someone who's conduct towards us has been, at best, unprofessional - particularly given that he's touted as a potential future leader of the club.

I am not otherwise interested in answering your largely irrelevant, childish questions.

[Axis of Bob 10,325]

I cannot believe I am engaging in this debate with you to be honest.

In your defence, it's not really a debate as such. It's more like Don pounding your lifeless corpse into further submission purely for the amusement of others.

I'm amused, so carry on.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Axis of Bob

[H_T 2,941]

Please do.

[beelzebub 22,271]

Seeing as your ducking my other question il ask one final simple question.... If ball does not want to come to our club, which is entirely his decision and he has no obligation to want to play for us......what would you have wanted him to do or say that would have made him seem less immature and unprofessional as you have described him?? Simple question.... answer??

not to engage your fun with others.... but this is a element to the whole shabby affair that is probably at the very heart of the matter.

Sound decisions are made from knowledge not assumption.it strikes me as petulant if not stupid and self defeating not to have at least seen what we had to offer. There is no obligation as you rightly point out...still no obligation after seeing the case presented. But surely its a sign of intelligence to garner , harness and then act upon knowledge. He cant have. Its dangerous to presume Connors knew anything if at all about what MFC would be offering Ball as nothing had got that far. His ( connors ) knowledge would have been incomplete and yet he's advising based upon that...or so it seems.

He ( Ball ) would have not only been ( but seen to be ) far more astute had he at least took the time and ( so ) little effort to return the courtesy. Even more astute for he would then not only know where we stood but would have that up his sleeve in any other negotiations with others.

He's plainly cut off his nose to spite his face...only an idiot does that.

[DemonDan... 77]

Embellishment to find the truth.

He doesn't want to meet with us because he wants us to get the idea. The 'idea' being 'I don't want to play with you.'

Right now. At this instance. With everything signed and set in concrete. With the rules of the draft being the rules of the draft - he has no control.

Didnt Ball recently sign a kind of 'open letter' stating that he would play and give 100% for whoever picked him up?

If this is the case then yes, MFC and many other clubs share a stake in the future of luke ball, while he has no say.

If not, then I wouldn't even contemplate risking that he might take off or do something else for a year - waste of a valuable draft pick.

He has made it fairly and abundantly clear he doesnt want to play for us.. he wont.

Melbourne wont take him....Bails let that cat out of the bag...anything since is smoke and mirrors bluff and bravado designed to encourage others to forfeit an earlier pick than otherwise needed bettering our position. He will in all likely hood go to Nth, Essendon or the Lions

Bailey would look like a skitso if we drafted Ball.

Moloney will run thru him at some stage during the year and give him a taste of what real MFC passion feels like. He'll be spewing he missed out..

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

I've seen graduates in the professions and the business world (similar age) who seemingly demonstrate far greater maturity and level-headedness than Ball.

It's hard to judge Ball thoroughly without knowning the full facts of the case.

I'm not sure the graduates that you have encountered have applied for a particular job & have been promised it verbally (as was the case with Ross Lyon on Tuesday of trade week) & basically been left jobless b/c 1 manager backtracked on a promise.

And for a St Kilda player or fan to criticise the MFC about not having a "winning ethos/culture" is laughable in the extreme.

Even Russell Robertson, one of Melbourne's greatest players of the last decade, questioned the culture to win at Melbourne publically. It's not surprising that prospective players don't want a bar of that culture when they hear club greats bagging their own club.

[grazman 6,613]

Even Russell Robertson, one of Melbourne's greatest players of the last decade, questioned the culture to win at Melbourne publically. It's not surprising that prospective players don't want a bar of that culture when they hear club greats bagging their own club.

Save your puerile observations for the Collingwood forums, they're not welcome here.

[Redleg 37,930]

In your defence, it's not really a debate as such. It's more like Don pounding your lifeless corpse into further submission purely for the amusement of others.

I'm amused, so carry on.

Just curious but how do you pound a "lifeless" corpse as opposed to another type, into "further" submission.

I am just bored and must admit 6.30 pm next thursday can't come soon enough for me.

[Sir Why You Little 34,767]

Even Russell Robertson, one of Melbourne's greatest players of the last decade, questioned the culture to win at Melbourne publically. It's not surprising that prospective players don't want a bar of that culture when they hear club greats bagging their own club.

Yes i am sure old xav you would have much prefered if we had taken the "Richmond" way of thinking and won 5-7 games this year & thus put ourselves in Limbo for the next 5 or so years.

No i get the feeling the Hierachy at the MFC wish this time to have a red hot crack & if we can do that by drafting some kids-good.

You leave Russell Robertson right out of this one. He gave his number to Liam Jurrah with his blessing at the B & F so look out for the same no. 24. Robbo always played well against the Filth.

Edited November 17, 2009 by why you little

[DemonDan... 77]

.... BS .......

Everytime you post here i have to sift thru retorts such as:

F**k off. Go Away. Or, You're a filth supporter, IE: SCUM of the football world- dont post here..

Are you that Daft?

You re-emphasise the football worlds view of the 'typically below average, community shunned Filth supporter', everytime you post at demonland.

Write this down, then sound it out and try really hard to determine the meaning -

'G O - S O M E W H E R E - E L S E. - Y O U - A R E - N O T - W E L C O M E - H E R E'

Edited November 17, 2009 by DemonDan...

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

The Luke Ball saga reminds me of the line from Groucho Marx - 'I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member.'

It's reported that he wants $500,000 a year and his preferred teams are the Woods and the Dons.

It's also reported that he will sit out a year and go overseas if he doesn't get his way. I doubt this. I think he and his management are bluffing. A year with no salary is too much to lose, and it's possibly against the draft rules. It's also unprofessional because it wont work. Some like Voss will call his bluff and pick him.

If Luke had made himself available for the PSD, we would have grabbed him. Without a doubt. He would have been a terrific replacement for Brock. I can understand why some fans are keen to pick up Ball in the national draft, but what if he's not bluffing. Would you still risk a pick at 11 or 18?

[Cards13 9,117]

Even Russell Robertson, one of Melbourne's greatest players of the last decade, questioned the culture to win at Melbourne publically. It's not surprising that prospective players don't want a bar of that culture when they hear club greats bagging their own club.

He did and traditionally I think we have found it hard to recruit experienced players as quality, established AFL players generally don't want to come to MFC due to this perceived softness about our club on the field and poor off field. Russell also had an axe to grind with a sookie rant as he was delisted.

I think we will be turning around this perception over the next few seasons.

Also don't go anywhere, stay around and keep posting. I have no idea why "people" (the faceless, nameless) rant and rave about people freely posting on an open forum MFC supporter or not. It is good to see an outsiders view even if you don't agree with it.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Cards13

[biggestred 4,368]

pretty sure that robbo was talking about the big T word when he made those comments. use your heads boys

[Sir Why You Little 34,767]

pretty sure that robbo was talking about the big T word when he made those comments. use your heads boys

That he was, & deep down he would have known the exact reason why it had to be done.

I have no Qualms with Robbo. What would this forum be talking about if we had won 6 games in 2009?

It wouldn't be good i know that.

[45HG 1,539]

Or if Jordy did his usual kicking action.

[Sir Why You Little 34,767]

Or if Jordy did his usual kicking action.

Hence the name of this Trading Board!! Ahh we shall toast him with beer in hand next week....

[beelzebub 22,271]

Even Russell Robertson, one of Melbourne's greatest players of the last decade, questioned the culture to win at Melbourne publically. It's not surprising that prospective players don't want a bar of that culture when they hear club greats bagging their own club.

umm..what exactly is soft about this club now ?? We expel players who cant be up front and pledge loyalty. We ...call it what you like.. Tanked..and defied the world to do anything.. We are Melbourne...we have a singular destination and we understand ( now ) what it takes to get there. .Ruthless determination and we dont take prisoners.

Im thinking its not that were soft that might shy a few...its that were nOT !!

It probably came as a rude shock to a few players that it was about where the CLUB needed to go and not them as individuals.