Dom Tyson - what's wrong?

[Ethan Tremblay 28,423]

4 minutes ago, Chook said:

If I were Dom Tyson, I would be desperate to get a trade at the end of this year. He will never be anything other than a medium-to-good inside midfielder and we have heaps of that type already — almost all of whom are well in front of him.

But he’s still getting a game and been around for a few years now. We’re just starting to see some success, if I were Tyson I’d be hanging around. 

[KingDingAling 3,609]

3 minutes ago, Chook said:

If I were Dom Tyson, I would be desperate to get a trade at the end of this year. He will never be anything other than a medium-to-good inside midfielder and we have heaps of that type already — almost all of whom are well in front of him.

He would be a good fit for Carlton - especially if they snare Shiel. The addition of Tyson and Shiel would improve Carlton greatly, it would allow Dow to develop at his own pace and also take the pressure off of Cripps.

[Binmans PA 26,175]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

He's been pushed out of his inside role on to a wing and he's just not a damaging wingmen or runner.  He's playing a role, but in my opinion he's about player no.22 in the side in that role.  He's better as an inside mid where he can pick up 25 disposals, but he's behind others now in there.

My gut feel is that it's not Joel Smith who'd take his spot, more-so Kennedy-Harris.

I actually think Kennedy-Harris can probably do that link up role slightly better than Tyson.  Just an opinion.

I'm not convinced. Tyson may get caught with the ball, but at least that gives us time to set up. JKH coughs the ball up or doesn't get it all. Like Smith, JKH would immediately be a weak link and in our bottom 2 or 3 players on the ground. Why change the winning formula with Tyson?

[DeeSpencer 23,152]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Unless I am mistaken, Fritsch's breakout year at Casey last year was as a goal scoring, floating half forward/forward pocket.

I understand his use since Lever went out, but eventually, hope he returns to the forward line, where his value can be maximised.

When or if he gets his form back, I think Hunt will be a better winger than Tyson and that Billy already is. Baker could be another to challenge for that spot.

Fritsch looked ok as a forward at AFL level but his defensive pressure was poor, it's hard to create room for him on the lead - particularly with the way we play - and he's not going to out body or take many pack grabs against good AFL defenders. AFL footy is significantly different to VFL footy and I think Fritsch is more suited as a wingman who rotates forward or as a back flanker at AFL level. His marking and skills are best utilised in space. The only game he looked really dangerous as a forward in was the Saints game which was way too open.

The conversation this week will surely be whether Fritsch has done enough to hold his spot down back, and if not whether he's the right option to slide back to the wing. Sacrificing some endurance and ball winning that Tyson has for more dash, dare, kicking skills and marking.

I'm not convinced Hunt will ever have the endurance to be a wingman, he's too much of a sprinting athlete. Nor the stoppage craft. I like the wing options of Fritsch, Baker, Stretch and hopefully an even fitter and meaner Vanders plus some draft/trade additions.

[DeeSpencer 23,152]

1 minute ago, A F said:

I'm not convinced. Tyson may get caught with the ball, but at least that gives us time to set up. JKH coughs the ball up or doesn't get it all. Like Smith, JKH would immediately be a weak link and in our bottom 2 or 3 players on the ground. Why change the winning formula with Tyson?

JKH seemed to play forward quite a bit from what I saw at Casey last week. I think he's an option to come in if there's a forward flanker injury. If they seriously had him in plans for the wing I think he would've been up the ground at Casey. He looked great in the second half against GWS but I think the first half was exactly the concerns you've mentioned above. He'd be long odds to come in.

I actually think Fritsch is just as likely to come straight out for Smith as Tyson is. If Goody really is all about the contest then he'll value Tyson's contested work on the wing and he'll want Smith's contested work down back over Fritsch's. That does mean we lose skill and the concern is Joel coughs it up too much but if the plan is to keep the game tight and attempt to defend very well then it's an option. Skill wise Smith would be one of our worst but I think he could easily impact as one of our better players with his run, tackles, smothers, intercept marks etc. 

[Binmans PA 26,175]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Tyson seems to be the lowest in the pecking order for midfielders, so if Fritsch is moved to the wing to allow Joel Smith to be added to the team, Tyson's place is under threat. But I don't think Tyson is the only one who's position is at risk. Fritsch could also replace Hannan who hasn't really done enough to guarantee his spot, either. (I'm not suggesting Hannan should be dropped, only that if another tall defender is selected,  I think Hannan is at equal risk as Tyson of being omitted.) 

Absolutely no way Hannan goes out. Hannan's run was vital last time out against West Coast. He'll worry McGovern.

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

I too suspect there'll be no change, but if there was I think it will be the one I mooted.

I think we are in agreement that there'll be no change, however...

If there were to be a change, I presume our coaches love for Smith is based on his tackling and closing speed, as they're his only elite traits. His marking is a bit iffy and his kicking is ordinary. But I'd say given the love for him, they're more likely to bring in an inexperienced Smith and release Fritsch up the wing as others have stated, rather than bring in an inexperienced player like JKH, who has shown no elite trait himself. I don't think we can carry JKH in a final.

In this scenario, Fritsch's fumbling in defence is replaced with Smith's, but we get Fritsch's superior ball use replacing Tyson on the wing. And instead of having Fritsch and Tyson being played out of position, we maximise Fritsch's assets and potentially tidy up our defence.

Edited September 19, 2018 by A F

[Jaded No More 58,049]

I would like to see Tyson play more inside this week and play Gus on the wing. Will help prevent him getting tagged and could be a good matchup for Yeo. Win win 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

3 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I would like to see Tyson play more inside this week and play Gus on the wing. Will help prevent him getting tagged and could be a good matchup for Yeo. Win win 

Gus is like Tyson in that he plays his best footy in the guts. Take him out and he is not effective.

when you put a priority on drafting competitive beasts you lose a bit on the wings and flanks. A problem I will take coming into a preliminary final after a decade of drafting skilful players with upside.

[mordja 187]

7 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I would like to see Tyson play more inside this week and play Gus on the wing. Will help prevent him getting tagged and could be a good matchup for Yeo. Win win 

Gus has gone from OK to great by moving inside.  What we get by putting Gus on a wing (arguable) we certainly lose more by putting Dom into the center.  Not for me.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Fritsch looked ok as a forward at AFL level but his defensive pressure was poor, it's hard to create room for him on the lead - particularly with the way we play - and he's not going to out body or take many pack grabs against good AFL defenders. AFL footy is significantly different to VFL footy and I think Fritsch is more suited as a wingman who rotates forward or as a back flanker at AFL level. His marking and skills are best utilised in space. The only game he looked really dangerous as a forward in was the Saints game which was way too open.

The conversation this week will surely be whether Fritsch has done enough to hold his spot down back, and if not whether he's the right option to slide back to the wing. Sacrificing some endurance and ball winning that Tyson has for more dash, dare, kicking skills and marking.

I'm not convinced Hunt will ever have the endurance to be a wingman, he's too much of a sprinting athlete. Nor the stoppage craft. I like the wing options of Fritsch, Baker, Stretch and hopefully an even fitter and meaner Vanders plus some draft/trade additions.

I still think Hunt could be anything. His kicking is better than given credit for but decision making has let him down. He didn’t play elite football as a junior so he has more scope to improve his decision making than most. Improve that and he is a jet.

[scarlett 247]

36 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Fritsch looked ok as a forward at AFL level but his defensive pressure was poor, it's hard to create room for him on the lead - particularly with the way we play - and he's not going to out body or take many pack grabs against good AFL defenders. AFL footy is significantly different to VFL footy and I think Fritsch is more suited as a wingman who rotates forward or as a back flanker at AFL level. His marking and skills are best utilised in space. The only game he looked really dangerous as a forward in was the Saints game which was way too open.

The conversation this week will surely be whether Fritsch has done enough to hold his spot down back, and if not whether he's the right option to slide back to the wing. Sacrificing some endurance and ball winning that Tyson has for more dash, dare, kicking skills and marking.

I'm not convinced Hunt will ever have the endurance to be a wingman, he's too much of a sprinting athlete. Nor the stoppage craft. I like the wing options of Fritsch, Baker, Stretch and hopefully an even fitter and meaner Vanders plus some draft/trade additions.

Hunt has a battle on his hands, he lost his burst and speed this year, the injuries must have been affecting him but with out his closing speed defending his weaknesses showed up and on the counter he was just as bad as smith with disposal and his go to was bomb down as far as he could, most of the time to a group of opposition defenders.  He needs to get his body right and work on these. He has time to improve and will be a weapon if he does.

[spirit of norm smith 12,954]

Tyson is a very handy 5th midfielder.  Likely to start of the bench. Definitely looks more polished when he takes first options. 

If he holds it too long, he gets caught. 

[rpfc 27,480]

He is playing his role. However, Tyson is definitely playing out of position; he is a very natural footy player that knows where to find the footy. He isn’t great at anything else.

But the MC have to weigh up whether Smith in to that settled backline to take whoever Salem/Fritsch/Lewis was to take and freeing them up is worth more than Tyson’s prolific ball winning. I really don’t think this is thought about if we are not playing WCE. Everyone of their forwards can kick at least 3 if no work is put into them.

Smith in and Fritsch up the ground is a definite and valid question...

[monoccular 16,093]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Tyson seems to be the lowest in the pecking order for midfielders, so if Fritsch is moved to the wing to allow Joel Smith to be added to the team, Tyson's place is under threat. But I don't think Tyson is the only one who's position is at risk. Fritsch could also replace Hannan who hasn't really done enough to guarantee his spot, either. (I'm not suggesting Hannan should be dropped, only that if another tall defender is selected,  I think Hannan is at equal risk as Tyson of being omitted.) 

You must be looking at a different Hannan than I am

He contributed to several goals as well as his own and FWIW I can’t see him being dropped 

[Pates 9,537]

4 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

After reading the ins and outs thread a majority of people thought Dom Tyson should be on the chopping block.

The word coming out of the club is they really rate Joel Smith and he is pushing for selection. I imagine Dom Tyson would be in danger with that selection as a specialist midfielder who will never be in front of Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw or even Harmes for midfield time but is not really a back flanker.

I watched the replay paying particular attention to Dom after the negative comments on Demonland and I struggle to see what he did wrong. Infact, he created two goals with his kicking into the forward line.  

Am I missing something and Dom had a shocker? Please tell me where he went wrong. Is it Demonland groupthink? Or is he just the last player picked of a very, very good bunch?

It wasn’t his worst game but I would say the reason many D-landers have him on the chopping block is his disposal is suspect and he gets caught A LOT. He was lucky not to be pinged HTB/incorrect disposal at least a couple of times possibly even more. 

I really rated him not long ago, and as I said he hadn’t been horrible (in fact you correctly pointed out he helped create goals) but he would be the only player that stood out to me as “droppable”. I just don’t have much confidence in him. 

[DemonWA 3,442]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I never understand why people exaggerate like this.  It's just a stupid comment

Perhaps hate is an exaggeration, but i get sick of every post match thread and every comments section on facebook calling for tyson to be dropped and/or pointing out his alleged weaknesses. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

5 minutes ago, Pates said:

It wasn’t his worst game but I would say the reason many D-landers have him on the chopping block is his disposal is suspect and he gets caught A LOT. He was lucky not to be pinged HTB/incorrect disposal at least a couple of times possibly even more. 

I really rated him not long ago, and as I said he hadn’t been horrible (in fact you correctly pointed out he helped create goals) but he would be the only player that stood out to me as “droppable”. I just don’t have much confidence in him. 

Glass half empty he didn’t get pinged for holding the ball.

Brayshaw and Lewis got pinged for sliding when both were just putting their head over the footy.

We can’t control the umpires and can’t rate a players game on what they might have paid.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Wrecker45

[Pates 9,537]

26 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

I still think Hunt could be anything. His kicking is better than given credit for but decision making has let him down. He didn’t play elite football as a junior so he has more scope to improve his decision making than most. Improve that and he is a jet.

I think Hunts just got to look at 2019 as a clean slate to start again. He clearly lost confidence throughout the year and then had a difficult run of injuries. I’m with you that I feel like he could be anything, he’s got an x-factor that not many others have and showed some great ability when pushed forward a couple of times in 2017. 

A big pre-season could see him pushing for selection, great that we have these competitions for spots now!

[Wrecker45 3,378]

5 minutes ago, Pates said:

I think Hunts just got to look at 2019 as a clean slate to start again. He clearly lost confidence throughout the year and then had a difficult run of injuries. I’m with you that I feel like he could be anything, he’s got an x-factor that not many others have and showed some great ability when pushed forward a couple of times in 2017. 

A big pre-season could see him pushing for selection, great that we have these competitions for spots now!

I dare say Hunt won’t be having a beer mad Monday after the Casey final. Nor Joel Smith or Bernie Vince. 2018 not over yet and let it roll on...

[Pates 9,537]

6 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Glass half empty he didn’t get pinged for holding the ball.

Brayshaw and Lewis got pinged for sliding when both were just putting their head over the footy.

We can’t control the umpires and can’t rate a players game on what they might have paid.

He may not have got pinged but he still got caught, he just takes that split second longer than others do and I feel like he gets caught out with high pressure. As I said I don’t think he played particularly bad but he was the only one who stuck out as someone potentially on the chopping block. 

[Skuit 9,181]

There was a time when Tyson collecting around the 50m arc would elevate the pulse-rate. Now it's like instant deflation when he's the last man in the chain - and before he's even taken a shot I'm yelling at him to stop calling for the ball.  Never even looks close to scoring. 

16.6 in his first season with us and 2.6 this year (not including the handful of oofs and shots that have dropped short). Also, while his kicking has always been suspect, he could previously be relied upon to clear the lines from around half back. Has zero penetration nowadays.

Shot by injuries and not a winger. 

[Pates 9,537]

28 minutes ago, Skuit said:

There was a time when Tyson collecting around the 50m arc would elevate the pulse-rate. Now it's like instant deflation when he's the last man in the chain - and before he's even taken a shot I'm yelling at him to stop calling for the ball.  Never even looks close to scoring. 

16.6 in his first season with us and 2.6 this year (not including the handful of oofs and shots that have dropped short). Also, while his kicking has always been suspect, he could previously be relied upon to clear the lines from around half back. Has zero penetration nowadays.

Shot by injuries and not a winger. 

I think that sums it up, his first year with us was an absolute cracker. I remember the goal he kicked against Adelaide in that year that sealed the game for us, it was brilliant, now he just doesn’t seem to have those same silky skills. 

[scarlett 247]

2 hours ago, Pates said:

It wasn’t his worst game but I would say the reason many D-landers have him on the chopping block is his disposal is suspect and he gets caught A LOT. He was lucky not to be pinged HTB/incorrect disposal at least a couple of times possibly even more. 

I really rated him not long ago, and as I said he hadn’t been horrible (in fact you correctly pointed out he helped create goals) but he would be the only player that stood out to me as “droppable”. I just don’t have much confidence in him. 

I thought he had worse games earlier this year.

His disposal is either good or a shank. When he first got moved out of position his biggest weakness was his speed. He would let himself get sucked into the contest and end up in the dead zone with a quicker opponent who would tirn and go and if we didnt win it the opposition would use his opponent and hurt us while he was left watching the back of his opponent get further away. 

They still try to exploit this but his positioning has improved but if we had lever in fritsch would be in that role or stretch would have made it his.

Credit to tyson, hes a good footballer, i like what he can bring and what he has brought. I think getting a game on the wing when he has no attributes to play that role is a great effort. Great attitude to accept the new challange. If he loses his spot this week i think he will ask for a trade, i think hes worth more than we would get for him.

If he stayed and injury hit one of our mids we could bring tyson in, no other club has a midfielder of the quality of dom running around in the 2's.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I like Tyson and expect the team will remain unchanged.

That said, I’d love to see Vince back in the team - perhaps this is more emotional than logical, but, if it were to happen, Tyson is the player to make way for him.

Vince would donate his heart and all other vital internal organs to the team if selected. Please put him in. Sorry Dom.

 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,201]

Nearly a week on and I am still in the state of mind that Tyson must make way for Smith. We must bring more size and speed to our backline to combat their forward line. We must bring more run to the outside midfield. Smith in and Fritsch to the wing is the way.

This is not to do with Tyson who whilst not bad had limited impact on last weeks game. Its about team balance to defeat a side that is different at a ground that is different in conditions that are different.

Edited September 19, 2018 by big_red_fire_engine