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Hearing that we’re right into Koltyn Tholstrup with this pick. Hard as nails mid/fwd from WA. There’s likely a few names ahead of him on the draft board but if they’re all taken then Koltyn could be our man. Could be a WA double with Curtin firming for us at pick 6.

The article mentions Sydney and StKilda having interest in Tholstrup who have picks 12 and 13. Maybe not a coincidence we moved ahead of these two. Anyway we've been linked to Curtin, Caddy, Leake, Watson, Sanders, Windsor, Wilson, O'Sullivan, Murphy and now Tholstrup with potential interest in Simpson if he's available late in the draft. Still a bit to play out. What's interesting is I haven't heard any further speculation of us trying to move up for one of the Roos picks.

Thanks for forcing a horrible visual image on me.

Don’t agree that 2022 and 2023 can be seen in the same light. Whilst I get the straight sets outcomes in both seasons I think our 2022 form after Rd 11 is vastly different to our 2023 form from Rd 11 was different. We were banged up in 2022 and didn’t rest the players, 2023 injuries to Melk and Petty were just poor luck. Think both those ins give a different dimension to our forward set up

Great discussion of the details thanks @deanox and @Nascent

Who writes this garbage?

Not saying this is the case, but perhaps leaking interest in Curtin and Tholstrup is a way of making the Eagles look at our offer for pick 1 again. "This is what you could be getting Eagles, wink wink, nudge nudge..."

I still reckon David Neitz was certainly the beat I've seen in my time. For a club that went through so much off field turmoil his ability to galvanise the playing group and achieve what we did with little to zero assistance from the AFL, no training facilities and a coach that was always under internal scrutiny. I also loved how Neitz was such a fierce presence on the field and was the first to run in and stick up for teammates at all times. Him and the Ox were very similar in this approach. Any defender that sat in the hole would cop an absolute knee from a charging David Neitz and you could tell that would lift his teammates. Some would say that before that Garry Lyon was one of the best Melbourne Captain we've had since the 60's also.

I think there’s likely an element of subterfuge so that other clubs have no idea who we’re going to pick, thereby giving us options, with teams ahead of us having maybe a false sense of security their target will be still available if they trade with us to get us up the order, and teams behind us thinking they may need to trade up in the order to secure a target that we actually have no interest in. It’s due diligence, but I also think there’s a healthy element of ducks & drakes to this.

Yep, just read this on a foxsports article so you could be hearing correctly. "Powerful Subiaco prospect Koltyn Tholstrup is widely expected to be taken in the first round, with Melbourne considering taking him with its second first-rounder." https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/draft/afl-draft-news-whispers-trade-rumours-2023-riley-hardeman-essendon-taylor-goad-adelaide-nick-watson-hawthorn-where-does-dan-curtin-go-when-bids-will-happen/news-story/a20bec1504d1325bb116f9f24bb02c32

We were expecting that after last week’s comprehensive defeat by Brisbane, our coach Mick Stinear would have his charges coming out breathing finals fire. Instead, it was North who had the aggression, the numbers, who blocked our scoring avenues and rendered us impotent, unable to match the Kangas during any phase of the match. Darren Crocker, the North coach, later highlighted that how to beat Melbourne is no secret following recent losses to Adelaide and Brisbane and now North. With the secret out, will Geelong be our next subduer? In fairness North was brilliant. They won across all three lines and made us look second rate. By jingo they laid 104 tackles. We were not able to generate any corridor switches, not helped by our many dropped marks and kicking errors. Our forwards were unable to halve contests, never ever seemed to be in front and ultimately the footy never stayed long enough near our goals. No surprise then that Melbourne, despite having the greatest attack in AFLW history, was unable to score a goal in the first 3 quarters. One goal three points is our second lowest score in history and the 41-point loss is our second highest loss. It was also unhappily our first loss at IKON Park. Libby Birch is excellent as the deep defender with her intercept marking and reading of the play. However North forced her to play one on one and you could see at ground level that she was being constantly outbodied and outsprinted. North has three talls in Randall, Shierlaw and Emma King and it would seem we were missing one key defender. Meggs watched all the AFLW finals games over the weekend and the standard of matches was really high. In a sliding doors moment, former Dee Brenna Tarrant left us for greater opportunities in Sin City. She has really blossomed and was the standout Swans key defender on Saturday. The North big three of Garner, Riddell and Kearney were superb. Expecting Heater to blanket the best player in the AFLW as a core strategy every time needs rethinking Mick. In terms of our team, Tyla Hanks and Liv Purcell worked tirelessly for 4 quarters. They along with others such as Goldie, Gay, Kate Hore, B Mackin, Paxy, Chaplin and Loz Pearce showed the level of physical commitment required to play in finals. Unfortunately, there was never enough connection to ever win this game. Anyway, enough doom and gloom. We are still alive in Season Eight. Let’s move on, cash in our double chance and bounce back like true defending champions against the Cats. In terms of the game: Meggs and Mrs Meggs sat amongst the players families this week which was lovely and engaged in some lively chats during the game. Q1 It was a mostly tight opening quarter. Tahlia Randall outbodied Loz Pearce in a ruck contest before slamming it onto her boot for the only goal of the quarter. North peppers the goals for points only and we feel lucky that no damage is done. Hansky has a late chance but mistimes her kick. ¼ time: Dees 0.1.1 Roos 1.4.10 Q2 We struggle to get the ball forward and when we do it comes straight out again. North scores the only goal of the quarter by Randall who outbodies Birch in a marking contest. It is swirly out there for footy but really sunny and warm in our seats. ½ time: Dees 0.1.1 Roos 2.4.16 Q3 Mick makes a move. Tayla Harris starts the quarter in the ruck, with Hanksy, Kate and Paxy and instantly we move the ball forward and Loz Pearce marks directly in front. Momentum is lost as she misses left a la Max Gawn. North then explode for their best quarter of the game. Three rather impressive goals by North to Randall and then Eddey on the run twice. The Dees double their score but it’s only 2 points in total. We can’t believe that the league’s most potent forward line has failed to fire a bullet. Zanks what’s happening? ¾ time: Dees 0.2.2 Roos 5.6.36 Q4 We are beaten in every quarter. Kate Hore marks nicely but hits the post from directly in front. A few moments later Bannan who has been mostly unsighted takes a nice mark and kicks truly for our only goal for the day. North’s Gatt runs 20 metres without bouncing it and O’Loughlin kicks North’s penultimate goal. Emma King then puts the final nail in our coffin for a 41-point drubbing. What has happened to the #DemonSpirit these past two weeks? Dees 1.3.9 Roos 7.8.50 Coaches and next week Melbourne Coach Mick Stinear was thankful that our successful home and away performance allowed us the double chance. He said North’s defence was sound and they thoroughly deserved the win. We were scored against too easily and there wasn’t enough connection. North coach Darren Crocker said his side has built a unique defensive system over a number of seasons and was pleased how it held up in finals conditions. He referenced the tackling and pressure by Adelaide and Brisbane in their recent wins over Melbourne which demonstrated the method of how to beat us. For Melbourne, another huge task awaits Mick Stinear and his football department as they regroup for a battle against the confident Cats next Sunday at 3.05pm AEDT at IKON Park. MELBOURNE 0.1.1 0.2.2 0.2.2 1.3.9 NORTH MELBOURNE 1.4.10 2.4.16 5.6.36 7.8.50 GOALS MELBOURNE Bannan NORTH MELBOURNE Randall 3 Eddey 2 E. King O'Loughlin BEST MELBOURNE Purcell Hanks Hore Gillard Pearce NORTH MELBOURNE Garner Randall Kearney Riddell Eddey Ferguson Gatt INJURIES MELBOURNE Nil NORTH MELBOURNE Shierlaw (teeth/cut lip) REPORTS MELBOURNE Nil NORTH MELBOURNE Nil UMPIRES Adams Laycock Mitchell CROWD 5,431 at Ikon Park

Jay Kennedy-Harris was shot? So that's why he was delisted.

Yes Mick often moves players into the middle eg Tayla and Zanker to get them into the game but also I guess to provide some physicality in there because we were getting smashed. The problem there though is that Campbell and Pearce are not forwards so we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. Hopefully this week we see some changes around that with West back in to provide some contest / clearance work and also start Purcell on the ground. Second week in a row now she has started on the bench. We need to make a statement and get off to a good start.

One thing I think we know is that I'm sure the MFC recruiting team have a good idea of whether they think it will come in enough to generate points!

Equally you made a good point about clubs maybe not passing until into the 50s+. Something I didn't fully consider with the alleged limited draft pool. Particularly with Gold Coast and Bulldogs owning so many picks in the mid part of the draft, clubs that only take two picks may not have another one to pass on until the 50s or 60s.

Any thread that mentions, Goody, Club Culture, a loss, a win, the Board, Board Elections, training ground, The AFL, score review, umpires (all genres), journos, CEO (Demons or AFL), tribunal, interstate recruiting, the draft, kicking and game plan. Other than that it's pretty level headed around here.

I wonder if this pick is influenced by the first pick. If Curtin and we see him as KPS, 11 is unlikely to be O’Shllivan or Murphy If Sanders, 11 in unlikely to be a genuine on baller like C Edwards If Watson or Caddy then less likely to take another forward in Tholstrup

Ahhh debating Latin mottoes, this is what I love about Demonland

Saw Westy today at Gosch’s. I asked her about Frederick and Westy said she is exempt from the braids rule on cultural grounds. Westy’s happy with her one braid on either side of her head and the loose ponytail. She’s adopted this as her GameDay ‘do. Yep, I’m getting to the bottom of the important things in footy, the things that matter most. 😂

Might just be my Melbourne glasses, but parts of Tholstrup’s game remind me Colin Sylvia.

We shouldnt have needed to trade up our original pick to get 11 to make this happen. I dont think its likely unless we trade backward on the night.

Thanks @ChaserJ Pick “6” (7) likely be looking at Curtin, Sanders, Leake, Caddy or O’Sullivan Pick “11” (13)likely looking be at O’Sullivan, Wilson, Windsor or Murphy

Good point about it coming in. I havnt counted it all out, so it's possible our 5th round pick will come in enough to have points value this year

Trade the pick to the Crows, they take Curtin and don't pursue Petty, 6D chess

This is a pretty good phantom. The rationale for selections is very sound: https://houseoffooty.com.au/2023-afl-draft-phantom-draft/

I wouldn't say our pick would be greater than 73 at that point with great certainty. It could, but it could very well have come in further than that. Gold Coast will have all 10 of their selections wiped and Bulldogs will have at least 4 to match a bid for Croft. Hawks likely to have 3 selections wiped for McCabe. That's 17 selections for 6 players bring 93 into 82 straight away. That's before other NGAs and f/s's are considered and teams possibly passing before pick 50 with some clubs only taking one pick in. I'd further add that GC may very well have to trade out their early 2nd rounders/other picks for multiple later selections still with talk of Read being a top 5 candidate and Graham entering round 1 calculations. They wouldn't have the points to match on current holdings. A chance for us to rejig our hand here. This could all be moot anyway if we decide to take Brown at 42 and leave a spot open for a rookie or SSP player. I wouldn't be surprised to see us swap 42 with the Suns for pick 66, using this for Brown, and also gaining a future pick. Equally, it wouldn't surprise me to see Brown go without a bid and for us take him for free in the Rookie draft.

A medal from me.

I think he now has 3 VFL best and fairest awards, and a third place finish, in his last 4 seasons at VFL level. So he'd be a welcome addition to Casey in terms of quality and he would - at the least - threaten AFL selection. With the departure of Hibberd, Jordan, Dunstan and Harmes, we have lost some of the depth that drives standards and potentially fills gaps. I agree we need to make the case. But I suspect the case is pretty easy. $90k plus match payments is better than VFL payments. Plus a second life line to for an AFL career at a probable finalist is one last change to roll the dice on the dream, that was taken away by an ACL, a broken collarbone and a quad the first time. He played 14 games in his first AFL season. Combined with consistently being the best player in his VFL team I reckon he would back himself in to be AFL capable and live that dream. And if he didn't, we wouldn't really want him on the list anyway.

Doesnt matter whether anyone can launch a case in favour of Maynard or not. Imagine if May or even Joel Smith crashed into Daicos knocking him unconcious in exactly the same action as Maynard. The TV and radio commentators would be going nuts and demanding it go straight to the tribunal. The media would be screaming for blood right up to Tuesday night . Bang! 4- 6 weeks. Season over. We wouldnt appeal. AFL made no serious attempt to suspend Maynard and no appeal. Afl is a rabble propped up by corporate media. Loath them.

Yes, not so much rigged, as corrupt. I mean, it is rigged. When did we last play WCE twice in a year? When did we last play them not in Perth? How many times in the last 20 years have EFC, CFC, RFC played Geelong in Geelong? Follow the money. I understand the AFL has to run at a profit in the interests of stewardship of the game. Ask grass roots footy how well that's going for them. As for corruption, I take it as meaning "polluted, corroded, impure" rather than "brown paper bags under the table". Only have to look at the recent Cripps & Maynard tribunal farces for examples. Not to mention the calculated looking the other way in the EFC drugs, sorry, supplements scandal, sorry, saga. The complete arbitrariness on any and every issue. The list goes on and on. If it wasn't for my deep seated but irrational love for the mighty MFC I don't think I would give any attention to the AFL. This last season I watched more NRL than AFL!

There’s a pretty good draft preview for each club here: https://houseoffooty.com.au/2023-afl-draft-club-by-club-previews/

I don't mind Hore coming back to the fold we have no experienced depth in the backline and that's what he is. His form at VFL level has been outstanding.

@rpfc I flagged the deficit in a post 3 posts above the one you commented on. And for both @rpfcand @Nascent: If there is a bid on Brown at pick 50, then our pick 93 will still be a late pick, and almost certainly later than 73. Sure lots of teams may pass between 50 and 93, bringing our pick higher (let's say it comes in as low as 65), but at the time of the bid, those passes won't have happened yet so our 5th round pick will likely be worth 0 points.

One factor to consider is how far pick 93 will come in once academy picks are absorbed and clubs pass later in the draft. Given its expected that roughly 50-60 picks will be taken this year we will likely have some points value added to that pick when it comes time to using it. 61 = 135 points. Not that it will make much of a material difference.

Hawks interviewed O'Sullivan this week as well. Sounds like due diligence but not sure it's a solid indication of their plans. Yet.

Two things; you can go into deficit, and ND93 won’t be that high. Only around 65 kids will taken.

Haven’t the hawks heard of FaceTime, or the mobile phone?

Someone mentioned Hawks flew Phillipou over this time last year too so might not mean too much

Hawthorn right into Curtin. Flew him over to Melbourne for an interview today per Cal Twomey. Likely we would end up with Sanders if Hawks opt for Curtin. Dogs would very likely snap up Watson.

I think your “handball-chain-happy” comment is a very insightful one. Last year we were, statistically, the best defensive team in the history of the comp. This year we are, statistically, the best offensive team in the history of the comp. That doesn’t happen by accident. I think we have become way too obsessed with the pretty, flashy looking ball movement that, to be honest, even on a really good day if all goes well, comes off leading to a goal about two or three times. Last year we were as tough as nails and swung into the flashy stuff when it was suitable. Now we try to artificially manufacture it all the time, even when it’s clearly just not on. And teams are of course ready for it, and the good ones are making us pay. Also, we nearly always start slowly and find ourselves under the pump. Again, it’s us not playing hard, percentage football when the heat is on at the start of the game, but trying to dazzle with flair. And how often when we do start to move the ball forward by hand do we have to stop, run in circles, and go sideways because all our forwards have come too far up the ground and there’s no one to kick to? Yesterday at the ground I said early in the game to my friend that the Kangas were going with a quick kick from the clearances strategy, just get the ball forward by foot. If that is the team plan, and everyone is ready for it, then it's a good, basic plan. You'll be in front and take marks from the inevitable short kicks. Melbourne did not adapt to deal with this. Conversely, when we tried to occasionally break from the handball game and hack it forward (usually as the handball chain wasn't working) it was so unexpected that no one was ready. The ball was coming into the forward line with no consistency, and the forwards didn't seem to be helping by failing to lead which meant "passes" were basically either going nowhere near them or landing on their heads, giving the north defenders an easy task to fist it away. I'm looking for positives, and for those who are too here is one. The last time were in this position was in 2021, after losing to the Dogs when we outplayed them but kicked 2.12 and lost, and then followed that up with a performance against Collingwood that was appalling, showing all the signs of a team that was still suffering from the hangover of kicking 2.12 the previous week. The next week Mick made a few changes (Daisy forward, Zanker onto the ball, etc.), and we got things going again against St. Kilda. But here's the good bit. Our next three matches were against probably the then three best teams in the comp - Adelaide, Freo in Perth, and Brisbane. And we beat all three. It was done with absolute grit and commitment mixed with belief in team mates. We can do it again.

I hope so too SL, but I doubt that will be the case until ..... possibly mid season.

Yeah no biting, it's a good question. You can only have as many picks as list spots. We finished 6th for draft purposes so have available: - Pick 6 (traded in from Freo) - Pick 14 (first round) - Pick 36 (second round, traded out to GC) - Pick 42 (second round, JJ compensation) - Pick 57 (third round, traded out last year) - Pick 75 (4th round, traded out to WB last year) - Pick 93 (5th round) Bold are picks we still have. Technically we have up to 4 primary list spots available now, because we are allowed to have 36-38 primary list players, with the number of rookies reducing for each list spot of 36 we use. Only picks that can be used on a primary list spot can be taken into the draft for the purpose of points. I.e. you can't stockpile 8 X 2nd round picks for lots of points if you only have a potential for 3 lost spots. Also pick 73 is worth 9 points, and any pick 74 onwards is worth 0 points. So after pick 42, we have no more points.

I'll add that the f/s points discount is 20% or 197 points, whichever is greater. Pick 56 is designated as 194 points. That means if Kynan is drafted from pick 56 onwards we can match the bid for 0 points. As long as we have a list spot, he is ours if we want him. If he is bid at pick 55 we would need to pay 10 points, at pick 49 we would pay 90 points, at 43 we'd pay 181 points. If this cost got pushed into next year, 37 points is enough to shift pick 18 to 19. 181 points is enough to shift any pick back at least 1 and probably more picks (except for the top 3 picks). So I suspect that unless we rejig our draft hand on the night, we may only match a bid for him if it comes in the mid 50s or later.

Three games in a row now where we have been beaten by physical pressure around the ball. Mick has not learnt that Shelley, while great at tackling, cannot actually get the ball or dispose of it. Likewise Lily. So why put these players in the middle? Last week no Paxy, this week no West. We miss the grunt needed in the engine room. This is finals football, not the free running open game which we love. And it is the same around the ground. Finals is physical and we lacked the willingness to play that way. Small wonder we had zero contributions from our forwards, especially when we had to move Kate Hore into the mid to cover the holes there. Kudos to the Irish contingent, Blaithin, Aimee and Sinead, and Hanks, who tried the whole game to show the side what was needed.

Gather Round is a dud. Call it ‘gathering up tourism department funding’ round, and I’ll at least respect the AFL for being straight with us.

Some very smart goals there and not too shabby on the tackles as well. Go Kynan Brown.!!

Yes good news if he’s nominated and MFC accepted. He’s not top 20. Maybe not top 50. But he’s a late pick or a steal as a rookie. Huge engine. Determination plus. Plays like Libba. Needs some physical growth but he’s a goer (like his Dad).

I read the Herald Sun this morning and the MFC has nominated Kynan as a Father-Son recruit.