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Training wasn't on this morning, so because I have been to nearly every training session, went to the Tigers training this morning to compare notes, if you don't want to read just skip, will do as similar to my MFC reports 9 in rehab, including Martin and Petterd (surprise), Hampson was doing slow laps, he looked exhausted, but he gets to go to bed each night with Megan Gale so perhaps not that surprising Similar ball movement drills involving lesser numbers, but strangely did not involve the ruck division Also ball retention and movement by hand ball, there was a lot a waist grabbing and spinning type tackling, too much risk of head clashes for mine The breaks between drills were longer than MFC, and one was particularly disorganised, coaches had to keep getting the numbers right Hardwick and Williams sat high in the stand to watch the full field ball movement drill Cotchin not very vocal which surprised me, compared to Dunn and Nathan Jones, Newman the most vocal So much for Reiwoldt being a reformed character, in one drill he led and had the ball delivered to his feet which he mishandled, immediately stopped participating in the drill which went for about another 20 seconds, trudged back to sideline, think is was Ruttem who said "you can't get the lace out all the time Jack", to which Jack replied "not at my [censored] feet though",, couldn't see Roos wearing that behaviour Rance and Vickery had a nice little tussle at the end that got quite willing Any questions feel free as per normal

Gutted for the lad. In a perverse way I think it will be great for Jack Trengove to have a focus on someone else. He will take CP under his wing and help him through it. Which will be great for JT as well. If it works out it will create a very strong team bond. And we might look back on this as the cementing of a real team bond that is the beginning of a team that grows together.....maybe a bit far fetched but already I sense this pre-season here is more cameraderie than we have had in a number of years......

Who said people wont be at Cranbourne at 2 ? I will. For too long a lot of MFC supporters act like little gods deeming nobody lives more than 10 kms from the GPO. That's one of the reasons our supporter base is so low and one of the oldest in age. We seem to look down on people who live out here, I live in Pakenham and cant make training at Goshs paddock, but I enjoy the reports put on this site from Dees supporters. But hold training or match practice out here and the noses rise a bit higher. Come out breathe the air , we are people and Dees supporters out here too.

Means we will have two Number 2 draft picks to debut in 2016: Christian Petracca and Jack Trengove!

Ironically, I now lay here in my bed after having knee surgery yesterday. I feel sorry for Christian but I know he has the determination and desire to totally recover. I ruptured my ACL in my right knee playing AFL Super League in the middle of last year. After being on the public waiting list I finally had my operation yesterday. My knee is very swollen and sore. I cannot drive my car for 2 weeks and have no idea when I will be back at work again. I am also currently on 3 types of painkillers until I can get some sleep and the swelling goes down. Christian has the support of his strongly close knit Italian family, his friends and an entire AFL Club. Not only that, but he has his operation booked in for next Tuesday. He will also be having one of the finest surgeons in Australia operate on his knee. As much as it is a blow for him individually I'm sure he will recover. Just as I will eventually. He is fortune enough to be an AFL player though, whereas I am not even close! Plus I am alot older at 34 years of age. Nevertheless, this bit of bad luck will be a mere tiny obstacle in Christian's AFL career at the Demons. In the long run the bigger picture which Paul Roos and Simon Goodwin are trying to paint must be remembered. One individual player will not change this entire club. It is all about team culture and team leadership. I am disappointed about what has happened to Christian. I am sure he is very frustrated at the moment. However, I'm certain he will overcome this hiccup in his career and life though. We as Demons supporters will just have to wait until 2015 to see Christian play though. A real Demon never gives in! I wish him all the best with his surgery and his rehab. I may even come along to Demons training myself and support him while he is doing rehab too. I won't be doing much for a few weeks anyways. I can always catch the train and hobble over to watch Demons training at Gosch's Paddock while on my crutches perhaps? Overall, the only way to get out of this mentality of self-pity is by being determined and having single-mindedness to succeed. Under Paul Roos I am more confident of a fundamental culture change than I have ever before. Christian will be part of a successful Demons Premiership side in the future. We just need to be patient and stay the course. Go Demons in 2015 and beyond!☺

It's something that will become a key factor in managing player loads. Skeletal maturity, muscle strength and the balance of function between those muscles grows through to your mid twenties, where injuries become less frequent. It's a pretty wide spectrum of variation to that generality though, such as Nat Jones, Ollie Wines. What we need are physiological markers that identify those predispositions to injury as a general group. There are no markers to indicate predisposition to ACL rupture, despite years of looking for them, so it remains a bit of a raffle.

I think the reason is the need to justify their existence P-man. The sports media is a big business with the need to fill hours of programming and acres of news print every day. Therefore "reporters " ( for want of a better description ) need to constantly justify their existence. The norm nowadays seems to be if you get a small piece of a potential story you run with it before someone else does. No need to clarify as if you are wrong it is forgotten tomorrow in the tidal wave of daily drivel served up.

Nah, spot on. I still think back to those photos of Trenners on his scooter at training with nobody around him, looking totally depressed. I reckon he'll take CP under his wing and they'll get through the season as brothers-in-arms. Jack's an inspiring influence, especially for a kid like Christian.

After the debacle on Monday, I hope the club has decided to persevere with the concept of training. Looking forward to informative reports and trust there will be no personal attacks on those who take the trouble of informing us with their reports. No problem with criticism or discussion but zero tolerance for rancorous posts attacking our players or those who post reports. Thanks

Thanks PSDMonday was really hard core. Workplace bullying led my dear friend to take his life. A lesson to us all indeed.... RIP Harvs....

Why do so many of us get into a tizz every time they do?

I have plenty of time for both Clisby and Magner, and would love to see them do well (although preferably not against us). Both are considerably better players than some others who were given far more opportunities over the past few years.

Can you attach a pizza oven and a late night stripper pole, and you have 'the Colin Sylvia pre-season training facility'

I'm just waiting for this site to self combust if we lose this match.

They are desperate to unlock the secret as to how we kept beating them when we were at our worst and they were fully juiced.

And stuff the players at other clubs, who are named in the media every time there is an ASADA/Bombers story.

I think that's right Doctor. However, I am really sick of all the hypocrisy around drug use. I am not condoning Essendon's behaviour. They deserve sanction and punishment, however, lets be realistic. The Bombers are not alone. Perhaps the thing that differentiates them from others has been the fact that unlike others they have been caught and outed. In addition, Essendon had a highly organized program with a heavy injection regime over a short period of time. We have never before known of an organized and systemic program as that implemented by the EFC. The Club, its coach and club officials have not helped themselves in the way they have behaved since it became public. However we know that drug use has been part of professional sport for decades. This includes the VFL/AFL. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fools paradise. The drug of choice from the early 1970's was steroids and other similar substances commonly found in gyms around the country, and were often taken over summer during weigh training and gym work. As gym junkies know they are often distributed by trainers and power lifters/bodybuilders. Two successful clubs in the seventies had a reputation for this activity. As an aside, footballers who have taken or been on "the roids" take on a different look particularly jaw lines, neck, shoulders, legs etc. They become thicker through the trunk. The shape is not induced by weight training alone. Anyone involved in athletics knows the body type from looking at Olympic 100m sprinters. Anecdotally, it seems that drug use in footy has been more random and left to the individual rather than being part of a program initiated or endorsed by the club. In the past, players often did gym work away from the club or had contacts within the gym world. Clubs preferred not to know. Since the early 1990s we have seen the impact of sports science and increased sophistication of drug use. We are all rightly suspicious about some of the power clubs from 1990-early 2000. For example, the use of growth hormone has been popular in sports such as athletics because of the difficulty of detection. Drug testing in the AFL has been very limited compared to other sports such as cycling. I have always been annoyed by comments from AFL administrators (particularly Demetriou) about the drug culture in cycling knowing what they must know. Its all about protecting and promoting "the brand." As with cycling there has been a code of silence within VFL/AFL about drug use. Administrators, ex-players and media commentators (particularly ex-players) have maintained the silence. Players seeking a competitive advantage are not going to tell others what they have done. So by all means one can condemn Essendon but let's not pretend that others in the football world are innocent bystanders. Perhaps the scope and magnitude is different but lets not think that drug use has been confined to the EFC players.

They really are living in cockoo-land over at Essendon. So the drug cheats in the team have pressured the 9 innocent players from 2012 into the 'drug cheat' basket, just to preserve their anonymity? Are they going to do that for the entire duration of the 2 year bans as well, to protect the athletes that were too dumb to take common sense precautions about a clearly dodgy drugs program? Just staggering what is happening at that club. Where on earth is the AFLPA in all this? Continuing to paint the AFL as the bad guys, no doubt?

zaharakis and one other ess player (can't remember who) have already publicly stated they weren't in the injection program so i can't see any privacy issues as to why they can't play in the nab cup it's a bs reason anyway that the 8(?) players can't play because the identity of those suspended can be deduced all essendon need say is that those not playing are made up of suspended players and some injured or rested players, therefore no individuals could be identified just more of the victim and the bad bully boy afl propaganda

i was thinking more of the non-playing personnel such as coaches, physios, medicos, trainers and whoever else is needed. Nevertheless, whether we like it or not, we're living in the 21st century and with that comes various employment obligations which may not have existed in bygone eras. I also think we're stretching the responsibilities of the club if an intraclub practice match has to be considered as an entertainment product which should fit in with the fans' expectations.

Yes, I agree, although I was surprised that Clisby was dropped and I always liked the way Magner played and thought he deserved more opportunity, but we continued to play others who would be satisfied with 5 disposals for an entire game, Magner was a ball magnet.

There was some luck in getting PJ as it appeared the AFL delivered him on a silver platter. I wouldn't put Roos down to luck - rather great work by PJ in attracting him. And while we may have got PJ in fortunate circumstances I don't think we can say the same about Roos, otherwise every decision PJ makes would come down to the 'luck' in originally getting him (rather than good management on his behalf). We are also paying Roos a handsome wage - there's no luck in that. Viney lucky at pick 26? What beacause GWS and GC didn't nominate picks 1 and 2 in the draft for him? Do you reckon you'd give up pick 1 or 2 if you were GWS or GC. He was always touted as a first rounder, never a top 2 pick. He only slid to 26 because that's just the application of the father son rule which applies equally to all clubs. 2 compo picks for Scully is lucky? Again, it was the application of the rule. To prize him away from us GWS had to pay him a fortune. We were then compensated for this under pre-established rules. I don't call that luck. Vince for Sylvia? Luck? You cannot be serious - that's just clever recruiting in using the Sylvia pick to bring Bernie across. I think you are confusing 'good things' we have done with 'lucky things'. I'm not saying there hasn't been good news - of course there has. But, in terms of pure 'pot luck' which you have no control over, we've had a really bad run.

There is no greater incidence of hamstring injuries post ACL reconstruction where the hamstring is used as the graft. The hamstring 'group' (3 muscles) compensate as a collective to take over the progressive loads imposed during rehab. The surgery is a very elegant and efficient process. The graft length is computer calibrated to be anatomically correct, and anchored to the bones top and bottom of the knee (femur and tibia). That graft is initially dead tissue, but over the period of 5 to 6 months, the blood supply re-establishes through the bony attachments, such that it becomes fully vascular, and therefore a self regenerating tissue. It is 'living' and able to absorb the stresses applied. Fully competitive, full speed multidirectional sport is allowed at 9 months. At the elite level, there are seldom variations to this timeline, and the outcome is as if the ACL had never been damaged.

Errr ... not their own sisters DC! Although it does remind me of the old joke about what basic expectations Tassie parents have for their kids. Things like food, clothing and a roof over their mouth.

It is a good question,, I have complimented Dunny three times for his 'voice' at training, he and Nathan Jones are constantly driving the squad, Dawes is another vocal one at training and Grimes so the leadership group is just that As I said previously didn't hear much from Cotchin, Rance and Newman were very vocal, as was Reiwoldt, When MFC are jogging laps in rehab (which they all hate), there is usually good encouragement, didn't hear much from the squad when their rehabbers went past There is also another Reiwoldt gem that I was going to save and put later, as Martin jogged past, and the squad was on a break Reiwoldt said "jogging a bit slow there Dusty, must be all the cash in your pockets"

Found it a bit ironic this bloke came out publicly kicking and screaming at Neeld and Craig for not giving him much of a go and now they have gone ahead and given him a second chance. Interesting selection Just waiting for Brent Moloney to get named soon.

Exactly! And we could rightfully ask: why are the Bombers allowed to compete at all! There are 34 players provisionally suspended for doping, now what were the circumstances of the alleged doping? Oh, thats right they were doped by EFC employees and contractors IE THE CLUB!! So what in the name of er Cazaly are they "f'n" doing fielding any side in any AFL competition?

I don't understand what this "provisionally suspended" joke is about, considering the fact that the Essendon list are still training (and coached again by Hird)? When Saade was suspended from the Saints for two years, he was not even allowed to train until just before his suspension expired (and then it was with their VFL associate)! Why should not Essendon be any different and not have their suspension commence from the date that they are found guilty? Also why should we have to play their topped up VFL team and not be able to play Casey, along with our rookies and players outside our top 22? The players that Essendon is getting in to top up are being trained by their VFL coaching structure rather than Hird and we should be entitled to give our Casey boys a good hit-out against them! If it looks like a VFL side, smells like a VFL side and plays like a VFL side then it is a VFL side and that's who we should pit against them!

SA clubs raided by Essendon, not even contacted. Essendon continue with arrogant disregard for everyone other than themselves http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-18/bomber-raids-an-invasion I hope these sh1ts rot in hell.

goes to that great idea.....lift the draft age...but hey ....

...and those who post benign opinions.

I noticed today that "Japan Post" has made a takeover offer for "Toll" Toll have recommended it be accepted. That may leave Mr. little with more time to plan the great escape.

Way to completely misinterpret what I said. I don't give a stuff what anyone's feelings are but to put down others because they are understandably upset at the news is ridiculous. Have to laugh at your "level-headed" comment as well considering your posting history on here, you'd have to be one of the more bipolar posters on the site.

The Ross Brewer?

I didn't mind Clisby. Neil Craig was obviously a fan. Got him in as soon as he took control and kept him in. Clisby is a little small to defend medium forwards and lacks a bit of penetration on his kicks but his short to medium kicking is solid and he added some rebound to our team when he came in. I was surprised Roos didn't give him a shot.

Very impressive presser from Petracca, and Brayshaw was very well spoken in his little piece as well. We've picked up two gems here. Sad that Christian will need to wait an extra year to debut, but there's plenty he can do in the interim to motivate teammates and push the club forward. Anyway, everyone seems to have forgotten Roos' core message of "stop putting our draftees on a pedestal." This injury isn't the end of the world and, as Christian himself said, we shouldn't be expecting first year players to be match-winners.

I would love to see Dirty Dustin end his career by injuring himself with a characteristic, albeit miscalculated, snipe. The last surviving thug of the Sheedy era.

Good luck to Magner hope he can make it at senior level.

Interesting study (picked up via Twitter). Looking at incidence of injury amongst first year and emerging players: http://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440(14)00640-9/abstract " Emerging players were significantly less likely to remain injury free in games than established players ... A similar outcome was seen in training sessions, although to a lesser degree" You'd have to wonder whether we're not going to start to see young players really eased into it for their first season or two.

Magner, Clisby ... Neeld and Craig. Getting the band back together.

Those of you trying to take a "holier than thou" attitude and putting down those who are disappointed, upset, [censored] off or depressed about this news are pathetic. If you prefer to look on this as a "glass half full" situation good on you, that's your prerogative - but denigrating others upset that yet another of our "young guns" has a season ending injury before his careers begun and putting them down as whingers and losers is disgraceful. If we can't find sympathy and wallow in our despair on a MFC forum amongst fellow die hards then I don't know what the point is (and yes I get the whole it's only football/get some perspective - I'm not distraught over it but it's [censored] annoying!)

I think he means stop buying from Coles and Safeway or Bunnings/Masters Woolies, Walmart etc if you can help it. They are destroying Australian agriculture in favour of inferior product. They are killing other small business and homogenising the market. I agree with Dee if that is his point. As far as Anzac biscuits go, I remember having them with coffee one Anzac day when my Turkish neighbour came over. As he went to grab one off a plate I told him he was not allowed to have one as they were for Australians only. He took one anyway and explained "Why not, we won!" Which I thought was a bloody good answer.

Basically no, he shouldn't have ongoing issues. They wouldn't use hamstring grafts if this was the case. I've had 2 recos on the same knee, using right hamstring first and left hamstring second. Yes initially there is a greater chance of tweaking it but mostly it will just be the scar tissue of the cut breaking, which is a necessity anyway and isn't too concerning. Long term the issues he would be looking at avoiding through rehab is reoccurrence, stress related injuries to the other leg, mechanics problems such as spinal or pelvic issues created by protecting the knee, and any affects from the trauma of the initial injury such as torn miniscus or arthritis. Now days this surgery is so well developed you can walk out of hospital the next day. Fingers crossed everything goes well and this kid is a star for the next 10 years

Hey Song I did my ACL in the Army in the UK when I was 20, I had it fixed by a 'proper' surgeon, way before the modern techniques these days, lasted through another 14 years of service, marathons, and footy till age 50, it is all down to luck....I feel more sorry for Kreuzer at the moment, the ruckman for the 2000's, can't get on the park, Petracca will be back

Maybe...but I could also have named Tadgh Kenneally, Pierce Hanley, Zac Tuohy, Sean Wight and others. (Hopefully I haven't butchered the spelling of all those names too much. Apologies to the aforementioned if I have.)

Have receieved a response from the club about this and am happy enough that the rumour is rubbish. An unfortunate product of our past that we're so quick to reach for the pitchforks against Bartlett.

Hopefully he is able to be hugely more accountable for his opponent and much better with the football than magner

I dislike people who say Watts hasn't earnt a spot/played well enough. He played 22 games and in the games we won he played a significant role in our scoring. He had his best season finishing top 10 in the bnf. He is unlikely to be a power forward, but his continual work rate will be rewarded with better users of the football. He is by far our best user of the football by foot and even our best decision maker, but let's just get rid of him because he doesn't win enough hard ball. We start winning the midfield battle and are able to get clean possession in his hands. We will start to win more games