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Nathan Brown makes the top three of my list of ex-footballers whose opinion I don't give a stuff about.

The following is a complete list of footballers who couldn't make a career of it under Paul Roos but went on to thrive elsewhere:

I've seen you draw long bows before WYL, but this one takes the cake. Keeping him will cement us at the bottom. Letting him leave and picking up someone at pick 53 will move us up into the 8.. Absolute horseshit. The good AFL clubs carry good football people because not only do they know that when they're back, they'll play good footy, but because they build the culture. The part of our club that's pathetic. Menzel, Max Bailey & LRT are all examples of players in the last 3 years.. From teams in the top 4... Insane.

Disagree. If he stays on the primary list, he can't be LTI until drafting is over. That means we lose the chance to draft a kid earlier than rookie stage. If another club jumped in and was prepared to pay his salary this year for not playing and presumably give a longer contract to JT, that is to his benefit. Yes we would get nothing for him, but his loyalty would have been rewarded by us allowing him to get a longer contract elsewhere and move to that club easily. If he stays on our list this year and never plays again for us, how many clubs would give him a contract or trade for him? He would also receive less pressure being on a rookie list and could still receive his full contract payment. A reward for his loyalty.

From the AGE - Players lawyer Tony Hargreaves "Hargreaves refused to be drawn on that jibe and said he had not attempted to contact McDevitt. "I don't speak to McDevitt," he said. "I just read what he has to say in the newspapers ... (But) it is disingenuous for McDevitt to tell us to read the 12,000 pages of evidence. We've seen this before and it's not the evidence, it's a summary of what ASADA says is the evidence." ​If 12,000 pages is the summary of the evidence how much evidence is there? Why is this being played out in the media? Is this a case of trying to win the the battle of public opinion? ASADA have a job to do and from what I have read they appear to be doing it diligently. They would appear to attract criticism if they are too slow or too fast. I for one would like to hear the AFLPA critisise the EFC, it was their program, they failed to keep records and they have used delaying tactics all the way. The EFC are the villians not ASADA.

I reckon you're usually on the mark but here you're miles off IMO. Firstly how do we know that Jack wasn't happy to go to Richmond? He, like Chip, might have welcomed the opportunity for a new start at a better club on a longer contract and a genuine chance to play finals next year. Secondly because he was contracted he could have refused to go to Richmond if he want to. Ferguson did and we missed Sewell as a result. If you've ever spoken to any of the players about this they will tell you that it's a business, you've got to always be prepared to be traded and it's a business. We saw that more and more this year. If your assertion, and that of RPFC is correct, we may as well delist him now as he'll never play for us again. That's just rot. Jack is a ripping bloke. He will sort out with Melbourne whether to go on the rookie list or not. To get on the rookie list he has to be delisted but no other club can pick him up as a free agent unless Jack agrees. DFA is an agreement between two parties, not a one way arrangement. If we pay him his existing contract, which we must anyway, it's extraordinarily unlikely another club will pick him up. Whichever way it goes we must stick by this kid and if he does recover which is highly unlikely he'll play as good a football for us as anyone else. Gosh I hope he recovers fully. He deserves it.

Surprised that the poll associated with this thread consistently puts Lever as the third pick (presumably after St Kilda takes Petracca and we take Brayshaw). Not quite sure why Demonlanders go against the experts and place Lever ahead of McCartin and Wright, especially when we have just added Frost to our list who plays down back?

I love that we're faced with the tough choice of taking the best mid in the draft OR taking the best forward in the draft... Tough times

I wonder if he'd now care to comment on the Kreuzer cup?

It's a pity chip left us. McDonald would feel at home with those three around.

I've been told be a credible source that our choice is between Petracca and McCartin, and we will be taking whichever one St. Kilda doesn't.

Easier said than done... We didn't get clever with Toumpas and look how that turned out We didn't get clever with Scully /Trengove and look how that turned out We didn't get clever with Morton and look how that turned out We tried to be clever with Cook and look how that turned out We tried to be clever with Gysberts and look how that turned out The biggest change for me is not that we now have ability to pick the right footballer - We appear to have a coach and staff who can develop whoever we pick. This has been glaringly missing in the past.

Georgiou has played 7 more AFL games than me. Given that I'm an absolute Jet, that's a fair effort.

If the injury is prolonged from here why can't we put him on the LT list and upgrade a rookie. All this handwringing about delisting him is ridiculous particular given he has been so poorly treated and developed at this Club. There is a basic level of player respect which I hope the Club honours even if some on this site find too challenging.

GREAT NEWS! Looks like we will get the ANZAC Eve game vs Richmond: "Richmond and Melbourne also appear to have been successful in their joint push to play each other on the eve of Anzac Day, with the Tigers hosting what both clubs hope will become a regular fixture on the night of April 24. Next year that game falls on a Friday night". http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-to-play-14-home-and-away-games-at-mcg-in-2015-20141023-11at1h.html Would love to see Eddie's face as he vigourously fought this suggestion!! Would expect us to host in alternate years. Really excited for our club on getting this fixture going!

There are at least 20 players I would delist before I contemplated moving Trengove on. And what will the replacement be - pick 243 in the draft? No thanks.

Why do I think I know more then the so called 'experts'? Cause every bloody year a whole bunch of em make terrible choices. Many times over the years I've seen independent fans make better calls then recruiters. I've also seen many fans fall in love with players who recruiters overlook that never make it (Serhat or whatever his bloody name was). As such, I use my own mind to decide, and the record in my head kills that of many recruiters of the last 10 years or so. On that (big) note(ing myself), I really rate Lever based on what I've seen & heard. Every player is a risk, and his is obviously the Reco, but if his body is right, he could easily be the biggest gun drafted this year imo. Mind you I won't be disappointed with Petracca, Brayshaw or even Laverde, if we rate them higher than Lever. I like all those blokes more than Wright & McCartin (I see both as big projects atm, neither are sure things). Anyway, in Roos we trust & all that.....

Would be worth trying to convince to go to the PSD.

Donates $10,000 and costs the club $500,000 + more in legal fees. What a top bloke. Hope it was all worth it Brock.

Agree - somebody had to do the spruiking and Daniher covered for Harris brilliantly. Bob, my guess is that David Thurin might not last long. I hope he continues to be as generous a contributor to the club as he has been during his tenure on the board. From the list, you left out that unforgettable CEO whose claim to fame was to raise our profile at Wimbledon Centre Court. It makes you wonder who was in charge of hiring CEO's at the club - I had a dream lst night it was Barry Prendergast.

I find it absolutely incredible, that the players' representatives are now calling on ASADA to speed things up, when it is they and their clients and their clients' employers and their clients' coach, who have delayed the proceedings, using every trick in the book. Talk about disingenuous. If left to Evans, the matter would have been over last year.

Excellent. Even as an away game The MCC make $$$. This is really solid. We can now honour all those fallen Demons at the 'G. Then win.

Bombers leap from frying pan, beware fireI 'm reminded by the following as to one very good reason the EFC would be petrified of any players actually be found "guilty" as opposed a no-fault deal... "The fact that the reissued "show cause" notices have been painstakingly tailored to the circumstances of each player suggests that the charges also would have to be heard one-by-one. This matters more than might be supposed. Under the WADA code, if two more more players from one team are found guilty of a doping violation, the ruling body "shall" impose sanctions on the team. It would not be enough for the AFL to say that it already had punished the Bombers by expelling them from last year's finals. That was not because of proven doping violations, but for sloppy governance." It's a point that seems to have been conveniently left alone by the fanboy circus element of the media. Little and Co will have been very aware of this part and probably explains their 'win at all costs" attitude. They haven't , and won't , win. All eyes are cast towards the players but the Club will be smacked big time is my thinking. The AFL may well have contingency plans regards players and Essendon being able to put a team on the paddock, but the AFL will be stymied if WADA turns around and places a ban on the TEAM also. There are elements to all of this also that only serve to highlight how amateurish and contradictory is the stance that the AFL itself holds within the framework it signed on with WADA.

Chances are that player you desperately want at pick 60 or whatever will still be there in the rookie draft. Take him with RD pick 2, promote him when JT goes on the LTI, get the same result without being committed to that player for two years or risking having another club take Trengove.

So let me get this right, we/some want to delist Trengove, on the provision/promise that we pick him up in the rookie draft, and pay him above the standard rookie wage, with the main reason to pick up someone in the national draft. So we/some want to go in to this year's draft freeing up pick 83 (we will use 2,3,40,42-Stretch,53-Jetta), which they want to give that player the standard and minimum 2 year contract, with the view that they may make it. As opposed to leaving Jack on the senior list, putting him on the LTI list, upgrading a rookie who, as we have seen yesterday, can be delisted after 12 months. In simple terms, some want to delist Trengove with the view that pick 83 will be a worthy recipient of a 2 year contract, at higher pay than a rookie-listed player. FMD.

I think the AFLPA have been woeful in this. Their position is and has always been hopelessly conflicted, but they don't realize it. They have been dragged into the politics of it all and are being bamboozled by high powered publicity seeking legal practitioners when they should be placing the interests and welfare of all AFL players as their priority. This includes the right of all AFL players to compete in an environment free of banned drugs. The AFLPA do have certain responsibilities to the Essendon 34 such as ensuring they receive a fair hearing, and should be outspoken if this is not the case. However the AFLPA cannot possibly know if the Essendon 34 are guilty or not and therefore should limit their support. The AFLPA should not be spokesmen for the Essendon 34, because to do so may ultimately result in the AFLPA being shown to have supported drug cheats to the detriment of the vast majority of their members.

Look at the film. Brayshaw can kick. Wright can Mark and kick from 55. The rest are scrubbers. Wright could be the next Centurian Coleman Medalist. Have a frikken look you group thinking ,ball swallowing ,clowns.

ASADA basically telling the AFLPA to ... [censored] A return of fire with passion from Ben and the boys (and girls). The AFLPA clearly don't get it ... never have, they're blinkered, conflicted and essentially ignorant. I'd be worried as a parent, they're fwits.

We have a duty of care towards Jack. The club needs to honour the contract in full to give him the best opportunity to fully recover from the injuries he received at his workplace. As it would be for any of us in similar circumstances. I am sure that this time next year there will have been a full reassessment of the situation against his contract circumstances and a way forward will be agreed. If his injury precludes his playing football again and he retires I believe that the club will still support him in any way it can with all medical requirements to allow him to lead a full and proper life after football. To do anything else would be wrong. I watched Ox go through his three knee recos and at no time was there talk of cutting him loose. I know this is a very different injury, but I believe Jack has shown enough to be given every chance to get back.

Aren't you the same clown who thought Newton could play at AFL level?

What's the point of putting him on the rookie list compared to putting him on the long term injured list and promote another in his place?

Arrow, I liked your post because it was full of positivity and excellent news which indicated the issue of JT's drop in pace and overall performance was directly attributed to the navicular injury. However, it raises a couple of questions I'd like answered if possible. From news report; It was only reported a fortnight ago after the failed trade to Richmond that Jack was only out running for about two weeks prior. "This is obviously devastating news for Jack and we will seek further advice from surgeons for a plan moving forward so he can return to playing football," Demons football manager Josh Mahoney told the club website. "Jack had been progressing well ... and (eight weeks ago) was given the all-clear from the surgeon to progress to the next phase of his program. I struggle to comprehend how after only two weeks off the de-load treadmill and running outside that Trengove is given license to run his backside off and pull PB 3km's and repeat sprints. I cannot see how any rehab program would allow that! Also, if this was in fact the case, why would the MFC put him up for trade knowing that they've cured he foot issues of a very good player and former Captain that when up and about would add value to the team. The story of JT being the missing piece of an A grader puzzle is plausible but still purely based on rumour to the best of my knowledge. Do I have the time line mixed up here? According to my calculations, Trengove was only fully off the de-load treadmill a fortnight before trade period. Hope that made sense. Cheers

What a sad lot we are. Here we are getting all warm and moist over Brayshaw which I suppose is fair enough, yet his highlights reel is no better than JT's , or his credentials better , yet on the other hand many here are ready to burn him at the stake 'finished' they say. Finished, trade him, get him out of the joint is the implication. I find it disappointing we aren't prepared to give this kid more than a fair go because that's what he tried to do for us, more than likely when he was battling his own issues. Hasn't run off for 20 pieces of silver , took on the captaincy, thrust into the headlights and never waivered at a time was in real trouble. Love him, love his spirit and I really hope that he shoves it up a few backsides on here.

One of the critical aspects of the way TAC cup is played is that players are not allowed to be tagged. This was supposedly to allow recruiters the opportunity to see the player themselves, but the downside is that you don't get to see the player under real pressure. Which is what AFL is all about..... It has a second effect as well for armchair critics.....have you ever seen an ordinary highlights reel of a draftee? The consequence of the " no tagging"...players are always able to find space to run and lead. Anyone with the ball looks good and doesn't get exposed. And you won't see a lot of tackling during the game. It is a good game to watch from the spectators point of view as it is so open and free-flowing, but only makes the recruiters job so much harder....

Seriously? After the last three years of disgrace, we get a prime time, Friday night game against a Victorian club at the G, totally undeservedly, and you complain? This is a huge win for our club, and if the clubs are intending for it to be permanent, then you'd expect it to be shared every year as to who hosts.

Hird must be a Little nervous... "Also added to the revised code were stronger powers for anti-doping authorities to punish coaches and trainers who help athletes dope, and more emphasis on investigations away from drug tests to catch cheats."

Recruiters sometimes are overruled by the coach when they get a chance to select a player. The example was when we recruited Molan, Craig Cameron wanted Del Santo. This is not being clever but sometimes the blame may lay with the coach. The player selected has to have a bit of luck re-injury and then have the application to want to improve and become the player the club desires. Sometimes player don't buckle down and do the work until it is too late eg Blease. Sometimes the art of picking players is not a science but a gut feel, I spoke to Ray Jordan once about the type of players he wanted and he said they should have a bit of c..t about them. So we should respect that Taylor Viney and Roos will get the best players available who ever they maybe. Brayshaw and Stetch have already been exposed to Roos methods last year and know what to expect. So pick 3 is the unknown, my selection has not been mentioned by anyone to date so I will keep the selection to myself.

Just a technicality - after reviewing Mark Jackson and his handstand I believe it points to the sky.

This McDevitt is sounding a far cry away from the McDevitt who doled out soft deals to the NRL players who co-operated with ASADA and the McDevitt who offered the AFL players 6 month bans back in June.Why is he so much less conciliatory now? My guess is that the heavies at the top of WADA have told him to stop acting like a cop out to get his man and get his quota of individual convictions and start acting more like a person charged with upholding the WADA Code which is there for the protection of athletes and sport on a world-wide level. In other words, let the system play itself out and justice be done. If after a hearing, it is determined that the AFL players have a defence under the laws, they should get off without penalty. If not, the appropriate sanctions should apply and if necessary, the ultimate determinant should be the Court of Arbitration in Sports. There might still be time for deals but I suspect that, with WADA behind this tougher stance, the deals won't be anywhere near as lenient as they were with the NRL. The media is as usual, a long way behind. Last night Chip Le Grand of the Australian was nominated for a Walkeley in the footsteps of Caro before him. Both have been off the mark in terms of the detail of this saga but the people who really deserve the credit are Roy Masters of the Sydney Morning Herald who highlighted the difference in approach of the NRL and AFL and Baker and McKenzie of the same paper whose investigative work caused Dank to sink. And on that note there's a lot more to come.

Yeah solid plan. Melbourne hasn't landed a big fish from another club for 30 years, unfortunately it's not as easy as just clicking your fingers. Take the best available players at picks 2 and 3, end of story.

I remember it well, thought Long was a dog at the time and nothing has changed.

My theory is a few things actually made it more difficult: 1. The rise in professionalism of junior footy. The best kids stand out when it's a battle of kids. When it's a battle of junior athletes with a heap of training and physical preparation (with some having different levels to others) it becomes much harder to identify 2. Development became so crucial from about 2006-2010. Melbourne have obviously stood out poorly in this . 3. The compromised drafts. We could be looking at some really solid top 3 picks in 2010-2012 but the top picks weren't in some of the drafts 4. Variable drafts. Some years will have great standouts, others wont

Georgiou has played 7 more AFL games than me. Given that I'm an absolute spaz, that's not that impressive.

Good job describing Scully and Trengove almost to a tee. That worked out weel. Scully was so self-driven he drove himself to Western Sydney. Not far off describing Toumpas either. Hodge, Rioli, Hawkins, Christensen. There's been plenty of youngsters come in lately with high skinfolds and turn in to very good footballers. The key is to recognise they are just kids who play footy not athletes, but to believe in them that they will mature. Country kids at boarding school are often the ones with high skin folds but who also just thrive in footy clubs as they are self made types. Really I'd be judging McCartin on whether he'll have the speed, size, strength and ability to get to the ball and take marks. Character is certainly important, but at some stage we just have to get the talent in and back ourselves. There's enough things to worry about with McCartin's footy before you overanalyse him I think.

Thanks Alex for your efforts at MFC. Far from the worst at Melbourne in 2014. He will be welcomed back with open arms at Norwood. Very good SANFL defender. Our captain, Kieran Mc Guiness (ex-Bulldogs), retired after two premierships. So there is a spot in the backline for a "cool head". From the NFC website GEORGIOU TO RETURN TO THE PARADE 23/10/2014 2:26:42 PM In some exiting news for the Redlegs, former Norwood Football club vice-captain and state team representative Alex Georgiou has today agreed to terms on a two year deal pending another offer of an AFL contract in the National or pre-season drafts. Alex made the following statement today. “I really look forward to returning home to Norwood if I am not given the opportunity at another AFL club. I have missed the NFC environment both on & off the ground and I am keen to play my role whilst we strive for further success”. The club is fortunate to have a dual premiership player coming back into the club and looks forward to everything Alex brings to the table.

Tribunal: Did you take Thymosin Beta 4 ? Player : No Tribunal : Did you sign a waiver to allow the injection of Thymosin ? Player we...yes.....bu the "good " one !! Tribunal : Are you aware the legal variant is actually called Thymomodulin and not Thymosin ? Player : Ummm.... ...No Tribunal : Can you or your club provide any proof of purchase of Thymomodulin ...the "good" one ? Player:...ummm...ummm....ahhhhh....well NO Tribunal: Are you aware we have evidence your club purchased Thymosin 4 ? Player : Have you... ( gulp ) Tribunal: Can you prove to this tribunal that you were never injected with , nor intended to be injected with , Thymosin 4 ?? Player: No Tribunal: Do you actually know what you were injected with ? Player:....... .......... next..

Really? We needed him while Garland was out injured and we would have needed him again if one of the defenders went down injured. I thought he did his job pretty well. List clogger? I hate this term. What harm or "clogging" was he doing sitting on the rookie list. Will trust Roos and co's judgments on all these things of course and this decision is small fry in the scheme of things... but I think Alex deserves a bit more credit than that!

There are plenty of teams who have had 2 top 6 picks in a draft due to PP/ FA (excl. GC & GWS).: Carl - 2002*, 2003*, 2005, 2007 -- *picks were stripped due to salary cap breaches. Haw - 2004, 2005 St Kilda - 2000, 2001 WB - 2003, 2004 Melb - 2003, 2009 Freo - 2001 WCE - 2001 Rich - 2004 Coll - 2005 2000: St Kilda - Riewoldt (1) & Koschitzke (2) 2001: Freo - traded pick 1 & took Polac at 4; St Kilda - Ball (2) & X.Clarke (5); WCE - Judd (3) & Sampi (6) 2002: Carl - they forfeited pick 1 & 2 due to salary cap breaches 2003: WB - Cooney (1) & Ray (4); Carl - forfeited their 1st round pick due to salary cap breaches, took Walker with their priority at 2; Melb - Sylvia (3) & Mcleane (5) 2004: Rich - Deledio (1) & Tambling (4); Haw - Roughead (2) & Franklin (5); WB - Griffen (3) & Williams (6) 2005: Carl - Murphy (1) & Kennedy (4); Coll - Thomas (2) & Pendlebury (5); Haw - Ellis (3) & Dowler (6) The rule for priority pick before round 1 is changed from less than 20.5 points in 1 season to less than 32.5 points in 2 seasons 2006: N/A 2007: Carl - Kreuzer (1) & 3 (Masten), which was part of the Judd deal 2008: N/A 2009: Melb - Scully (1) & Trengove (2) GC & GWS dominate the top 5 picks from 2010 to 2012. The years we had 2 top 6 picks (2003 & 2009) were arguably the weakest drafts between 2000-2009. From 2003 the only players picked in the first round who established AFL careers - Cooney (1), Walker (2), Sylvia (3), Ray (4), Mclean (5), Waters (11), Stanton (13), Chaplin (15) From 2009 (juries still out on a few, but they seem unlikely) - Martin (3), Cunnington (5), Talia (13), Jetta (14) & J.Pittard (16) Very few 'star' players in 2003, although there were a few solid AFL players (incl. Mclean & Sylvia). Very very few AFL level players from 2009.

I've spoken about melbourne not taking pure midfielders whilst drafting for a number of years. The ones we did take are trengove, scully (at the time, but probably too small as he hasn't really put on any weight), gysberts (was just too lazy). We have taken some wingers such as Morton and blease, halfbacks and half forwards such as bennell, tappscott and Strauss. The rest have been players like watts, cook, McDonald and other talls not really around anymore. Plus a couple of rucks. I would debate that we have completely neglected our midfield. I mean guys that go and get the footy. The last 2 drafts and trade period they have attempted to rectify this. Some not as profitable as others and some of the younger ones we will see. For years we forgot that you are suppose to have the football before the flashy players can use it. We need to address our midfield in a big way because imo players like Evans and m jones aren't contributing to winning. Geelong won their early flags with an average to ok forward line but had a brilliant midfield and backline. We have the makings of an ok forward line at the minute but its hard to judge when the ball goes in there 20 to 30 times a game and was very slow ball movement last year. I've commented on laverde already and I don't believe he is a player we have the luxury of picking at the minute. He could be a very good player but he could be a fail as well. His u/18s side has some very good mids who can get the ball and he seems a bit of icing. I have seen him play about 10 games live. I wouldn't pick him in the first 3. It's too risky imo and we really need to get high draft picks right. I would pick ahern before him for us in our current position. Not that I think ahern will be top 3.

Of course, you realise if you were looking at the same clip on the WELCOME TO DEMONLAND - HERETIER LUMUMBA page, you'd be able to argue how clever Heretier was not to over-commit and he was just unlucky that Garlett kicked a goal from an impossible angle.