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So first of all Corey Wagner wasn't traded in. He was taken in the rookie draft I'm pretty sure after his B&F season at Casey the year after being delisted by North. Balic cost us Pick 66 which Freo used to draft Tom North who never played a game. Nil all draw. Michie cost pick 56 which Freo used to draft Brady Grey who played 21 games, the same as Michie for us. Also worth noting we got Michie in Roos first year where he was looking for immediate help and depth for our midfield. I'd say at worst it's a nil all draw, if not having us slightly ahead. McKenna like Balic didn't play for us, but all we did to get him was a pick swap with GWS which we used to get Mitch Hannan and Dion Johnstone. GWS used the picks for Tiziani and Matt DeBoer. Maybe they came out slightly ahead, but barely I'd suggest. Bugg came as steak knives in a trade that saw us get the pick we used to draft Weideman. In exchange the 3 picks GWS got gave them Matthew Kennedy (now Carlton), Matthew Flynn (delisted) and they passed on the pick we gave them in the 60's. A comfortable win for us IMO. And finally while I'll concede the Kennedy trade was a bust in isolation with us giving up Howe and Toumpas for Kennedy, Pick 29 and the pick we used for Hulett. We shouldn't forget that we used Pick 29 in a packaged deal with Gold Coast to move up the draft order to secure Clayton Oliver, so again it makes it hard to complain about that trade. So out of those 6 players you mentioned, I'd argue that the overall picture of each of them coming to the club was a win. Bar Wagner who wasn't traded in.

Brown to Melbourne pretty much done. As per Sam Edmond on SEN

DrEvil will live and die by his predictions. I have links with the club but no mail offered to me this year. My last mail was we were heavily into Gaff. He never left WC so I looked silly. Will I post if I hear anything.....absolutely, it’s all good fun so let’s keep it that way ok.

I'm getting smashed by every poster under the sun and you're still the most upset person on this forum right now. fair effort. don't take this so seriously, it's the silly season, things change quickly. i might be wrong about this and i'll happily own it if that's the case but at the end of the day it's a fan forum, people will post rumors on here and i fully intend to continue to do so :)

I feel a bit sorry for Tom McDonald. His loss of form since 2018 has been dramatic and inexplicable. It has hurt us enormously. That said, can we please remember that he’s been a fantastic clubman and has always exhibited a very respectful and professional and, I think, loyal attitude to this club. He was a superstar in 2018. Regrettably, that body of work is a distant memory and he just hasn’t been able to re-capture any form at all since. I don’t believe however that this has been due to a lack of effort or commitment from Tom. Or, in fairness, from the club to him. It’s unfortunate how this is all panning out - probably most of all to Tom. Ben Brown is the future for us now.

Just chillax Dees. @Dr evilis just passing on what he has been told. If it’s right all good, if he is wrong then so be it. Take all info on here with a grain of salt.

Not many players on that list like to chase, tackle and apply pressure. that's my big concern. it's all well and good to look good on paper but if the team can't actually play the game plan Goodwin is trying to implement we won't improve much at all.

The ENTIRE selling point for a club to take on Tom McDonalds contract for us is that we won't want anything much in a trade. he's not getting us anymore than a 3rd rounder at best. the only way we get pick 9 is if we offer our 2021 pick as a central piece and build around it

Delighted about this. Marty was great for us last year when all around him were injured. Will be good depth. Charlie had a really good 2018 when iirc he played all 3 finals. Not much chance for a consistent run of games this year. So should be better next year. He teamed up well with Kozzie on the few occasions they played together.

I still think what sets Spargo apart is his ability to create, or add value to his disposals. He is almost the anti-Oliver. He hardly gets any touches in comparison, but none are incidental. They almost always improve our onfield position. I suspect he has the highest "score involvement to possession" ratio of any player on our list, and probably in the top handful of the AFL on that measure. It's a weird choice of statistic but it demonstrates how involved he is in our "connection".

"Sam Weideman needs to have the toughest pre-season of his life. Toughen up, Sam. You have all the talent in the world, but you need to get stronger and harder." - Matthew Lloyd

Had brain surgery last year. Now officially too smart to play at Richmond. (sorry)

The thing is, Nathan Jones is going to offer 10x as much off the field as our 40th bloke will overall. and that's even if he doesn't play a game. and with a reduced soft cap, guys like this are going to be like gold as essentially development coaches.

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/832475 Hore’s extension is also for one season, while Spargo has earned a two-year contract, keeping him at the club until at least the end of 2022.

Let Smith go to Geelong. I'd be turning out attention to this bloke.

Good player and would have been a very handy addition. The fact the Hawks and the Cats are pulling out the stops tells you that. I think the only reason we’re in the conversation though is the 3rd year we’ve offered which is risky for 32 year-old so I’m not too fussed we missed out. Sounds like the club did all it could so no gripes from me on that score. There are other options. My preference is Phillips followed by Polec. Keep us posted @Dr evilon what the club is thinking now that it looks like the Smith deal has fallen through.

#Rentfree.

It certainly could, and if it happens i'll happily put my hand up. but not before, and not just because Tom Morris has reported it haha.

I like Treloar and unlike some if we could manage it I'd like him in our midfield. But Oliver is a demonstrably better player, whether it be contested footy, loose balls, ground balls, etc. Oliver's combined speed and inside ball winning abilities are a more valuable combination than Treloar's accumulation, break away speed and sometimes questionable distribution. I think Oliver's loose ball and ground ball get abilities are sometimes overlooked. He's been the best in the league for the last 3 years. The ability to get first use of the footy and be the best in the league at it is huge. And we're yet to see the best of him. All he needs to do is use his legs more, which he started to do, and tidy up his disposal and decision making, which is quite within his capabilities. He's only just coming into his prime years.

Look MaH . . . you wanna start bringing in evidence and rationality to discussions, you'll receive the wooden spoon here on 'Land.

No brainer for us.

Dear God. Oliver has made the AA team, Treloar hasn't. Oliver has two club B&Fs, Treloar none. Oliver is 23, Treloar is 27. Finally, seeing as though Brownlow votes are for some reason significant to you, Oliver averages 1 vote for every 1.8 game he plays and Treloar averages 1 vote for every 2.3 games he plays. So even on your very flawed metric Oliver has him covered. Treloar's Brownlow tally after his first 5 years is 33 votes compared to Oliver's 54. Treloar 101 games and Oliver 99. Oliver's average should go higher seeing as he hasn't even reached his prime years.

Yes....this is what Club culture is all about. He will get games if he is good enough, if not we haven't shoved a leader out the door like we did with Junior.

Couldn’t agree more. Everyone knows my view. Phillips gives us 5-6 years minimum. He’s the perfect fit and we can guarantee him game time in his preferred decision. We can help the Pies salary issue. It’s a win win. I’d be shouting out that he is our target. Make him feel wanted. A future 2021 pick gets it done.

FFS. who cares if he's right or wrong, if you're going on a fan forum and not taking everything you read with a grain of salt, you're asking for it. To be fair to @Dr evil I appreciate that he's at least not taking this personally, some posters would definitely have had a tantrum over this.

I'll be disappointed if he goes to the Cats. Not only because I think he'll be a handy addition to our side, but that he's off to bloody Geelong. Why do they need him? Short answer is they don't. I hate Geelong.

I don't know whether @Dr evilis right or wrong. But didn't we do a last minute diversion with Mitch Clarke who was about to fly to WA to sign up with Freo and came to MFC. Things change. Until all signatures are on the dotted line it hasn't happened. For mine it is no biggie. Let him go to Geelong. Especially if he comes to us only for the money. I want people who will give all for the jumper.

Pasting is already well and truely underway red :) and a few posts coming in about how Smith is a bad player so good predictions. I think it's fair enough for people to question me if this goes the other way though, i just post what i get told, i've posted quite a bit so hopefully posters can judge the whole lot, was always going to be some things that pan out, and others than don't that's just how this time of year works.

Fantastic news. Even if he doesn't play all that much, this is the kind of thing that builds culture. Look at North after they dumped their veterans, look at Collingwood with the Treloar situation at the moment. And you don't need to go that far back to see what happened to our club after we continuously delisted and moved on our most loyal players from the 2000's. Bringing in Yze and Green, keeping Jones around. It seems as though we've learned at least a little from the past.

I’ll go. His heart is red and blue. His courage and loyalty is unrivaled. Is he in decline? Yes Is he restricted? Yes Is he still able to compete and play a role ? Yes. Can he be a mentor for the younger blokes about professionalism and what it takes? Absolutely I feel he will also be in much lower $ probably as low as about $250k. He may or may not to 300 games but he is depth, he is cover and he is able to make a meaningful contribution if required. If you go back to the Crows and Collingwood games this year, you will see what he can still brings.

Enjoying the updates Dr Evil so keep them coming. I don't mind the occasional furphy.

Yes. If Smith goes to the Cats we can be sure of two things, first Dr. Evil will cop a pasting on DL and second there will be a flood of posts about how Smith is no good, too old and didn’t want him anyway.

This year he had 27 SIs from 65 disposals. In the 8 games we played we had 145 scores (inc rushed behinds), so he was involved in >19% of our scores. 24 from 90 in 2019. Poor year for him and the team. A whopping 93 from 219 in 2018. We had 446 scores (inc rushed behinds) in his 18 games, so he was involved in >21% of our scores. Shorter games and season, but only 17 players in the comp had more then 93 this year.

Obviously there's a fair enough whack on his consistency within and between games. I think people need to remember that he's only 21 years old in his 3rd season of AFL, and was a major part of our 2018 finals push. I think his kicking has improved a lot this year and was able to hit a lot more targets and kick set shot goals. IIRC he had 3 goals in that Collingwood game and a handful against North to go along with a number of score involvements. He might only be small but he attacks the ball with the aggression of someone twice his size (which ended up getting himself flattened by Majak Daw). He definitely has the potential to be an important player which is why the club is prepared to stick by his development. Spargo is definitely ahead of getting contract extensions over those who have had the continual opportunities and not shown much (Omac, Wagners, ANB).

Happy with this Lockhart next please

The new Trengrove.

No. we can secure Ben Brown and Issac Smith and keep Tom McDonald but it wouldn't allow us the flexibility to re-sign other players and bring in other people that we'd like. particularly Clayton Oliver who it's now clear we are going to try and sign up long term.

I think I posted this the other day. The brown and smith deals have nothing to do with McDonald. That money would help with other deals/offering clarry a better extension.

I'm 100% happy if a Ben Brown deal is not announced until both clubs have signed the paperwork. I love a club that is a quiet achiever about these things When a player who isn't a FA announces a new club it brings expectations and potentially raises the cost to that club. Patience grasshopper

It seems clear to me that Treloar wouldn’t be a target for us for all of the reasons outlined above. That said, he strikes me as a thoroughly good fella. The way he’s been treated by the Pies has been absolutely appalling - almost sickening to watch. I hope he gets to another club and enjoys genuine and sustainable success there. Sometimes life throws up these ugly curve balls - only for them ultimately to turn out to be for the best. I really hope we’re looking at one of those moments here. I feel that the entire AFL community is backing him in here. I wish him (and his wife and little kid) all the best.

Harsh He put his body on the line against St Kilda. Went back with the flight of the ball on the near flank in the 4th quarter and copped a huge hit for his troubles. If TMac moves on he’ll provide cover and decent cover at that. Worth his spot imv.

QD arrives home from work . . . a bit irritable and somewhat knackered, Turns on Demonland for a bit of escapism and sees the 'Hot' sticker next to the BB thread together with four new pages, Gets really excited, thinks there must be a serious advancement and possibly an in principle agreement from the Brown camp, Excitement reaches fever-pitch as the thread is activated . . . F*&k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Treloar is a very good player....Oliver won't be better, Oliver is already better & would be first picked.

196cm key forward Can Mark and is a good long kick. I thought he was stiff not to play some early games after a flop game against the Eagles. Played 4 of the last 5 games and his last 2 games against GWS and Essendon were outstanding and was part of the reason we won. IMO he deserves another year and will be good insurance to have around. Turning 31 in 2021 but looks in good nick.

Not sure steak knife type players traded for crap picks count

gw$ will be over-indexed for first round picks; they don't need them - they need bodies and experience to allow them to compete in the immediate future preuss and t mac aren't the worst pick-ups

St Kilda weren't a "destination club" until players showed up there last year. We've attracted Langdon, Tomlinson, May and Lever in the last three off-seasons with, potentially, some more players to come this year. I don't buy your argument.

The Jones haters can go get Fked. I'm stoked about Jonsey getting another year, the chance to play 300 and possibly finals/a flag. The way he started this year in the forward line during the practice matches suggests to me he could be more than just depth if he can remain uninjured. He may not have had huge possession numbers or goals during the season proper, but if you look at the goals we kicked in the games he played, he played an assisting role in many of them.

I think it is interesting to note that when we talk about our bottom 4 or 5 players on match day, almost all of them play in the forward line. ANB, AVB, Jones, Hannan, maybe even Melksham this year. We keep talking about mid/forward connection, but it must be difficult when all of your weakest players on the field every week essentially play the same position.