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Spot on. Elite sport requires elite preparation. Doing enough to get across the line to play isn't going to get it done when others have a heap of km's in their legs. I posted my concerns about last preseason when it was obvious we would struggle: 15/2/2019: Not a bad time to be leaving by Misso given that we will reflect on all the injured / rehab players we have at the moment and those that re-injure if we don't make the finals this year. A real possibility unfortunately for those of us that are realists 21/12/2018: Of the 26 [in training] l counted roughly 8 that would be in our starting 22 which includes May. ... Numbers training are a continuing concern though

Northey was the man to drag us out of a bleak world of only three certainties: death, taxes, and Melbourne don't play in finals. Year after year after year we got to watch other clubs in finals, secure in the knowledge that we wouldn't ever be there. The brave new world where Melbourne got to play finals was something hard to believe but was very easy to get used to! Northey extracted every last bit of ability from fairly ordinary lists. So, Northey for me. Imagine Neale's lists under Northey. Like putting Lleyton Hewitt's head on Mark Philippoussos' body.

I’m surprised there is still any debate about the quality of our preseason last year - it seems very well established that it was not good for several reasons: surgeries, lack of continuity etc. That said, I think last year could very well be the season we had to have. It exposed some deficiencies with our list (lack of outside run and spread, forward line structure etc), and perhaps also the collective (and individual) headspace of the players, coaches, administration and supporters alike. These deficiencies appear to have been addressed following the end of our season. From an outsider’s perspective, I’m pleased with the way in which the club has approached these issues, and I personally feel confident about the year ahead. The players seem not to be taking anything for granted now, which I strongly suspect is a marked change from this time a year ago. This can only be a good thing. Thanks to all who provide training reports - I read all of them with much enthusiasm following every training session.

Everyone talks about the 1987 finals series and how special it was, but nobody talks about the 88 series. We beat WC in a thrilling finish at Waverley. We beat second place Collingwood in front of 88,000 at the G, by 13 points but we were in control all day. We also beat the reigning premiers Carlton by 22 points in the prelim to right the wrongs of the previous year's disaster to make our first GF in 23 years! Nobody ever refers to this game, but it must have been extremely satisfying at the time. We won 3 finals in 1988 which is the most ever in an MFC finals series since 1964. We haven’t replicated it since. IMO, everyone only thinks of 1988 as the GF disaster but we certainly had some memorable wins in the lead up.

The Northey era was better as we made the finals more consistently but 2000 was our best side. 1990 and 1998 were missed opportunities and we had a chance to pinch those flags.

Training starts again this Friday 10 Jan at Gosches.Havespokento club to confirm.

Well I Guess we have a bit of off season time and a dose of hindsight now to re look at this... ...and what the club has done to address things. Yes, we did drop off and of course missed the finals. The lack of a decent preseason certainly didn't help but a number of the points I made after the first game have also proven out. The law of averages said that we were likely to see a drop off, you can't just keep steady lining in an upwards trajectory...but I don't think any of us expected the drop off we had. The list was overrated, the hype about us having the best list was just that...hype. We've looked to further address list problems in this off season and I'm happy with the work done. More on this later. Frost was moved on, not delisted as I called back then. He actually had a better season than I expected but I don't think he adds anything other than pace and entertainment value when May is up and about. Unfortunately we badly missed May for most of the season. Tommy Mac has to prove himself this coming season if we are to be a threat...injury is an excuse but he also has limitations and should really be seen as our 2nd tall forward. Can someone else take the mantle? can Tom be a good 2nd banana? or is he going to fade away as he did when a KPD? Weid, injury again...not a lot to show in 2019....hope???? Jackson??? too early...but will be handy. Petty??? I really think he is a defender and we should use him there. Small forwards...let's hope Pickett steps up early as I don't have faith in the others. Trac...put in a solid season, maybe will give us a bit more of the x-factor this coming season. Will have more mid time. Fritsch...will be better if settles as the 3rd forward option. Can play. The mids...Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney and co...will be better for a good preseason and an attitude adjustment. I expect big gains here. KK looks to be gone, the recruitment of Langdon is a real bonus. Hibbo struggled, can he get back to 2018? or is he on the chopping block. He's training hard which is not a regular habit so at least he's giving it his best shot. We really had missed on some class kids with the recruitment of Lever and May...I think we might have made up for it this draft. Looks like we could have 3 beauties. Put a rejuvenated midfield on the park, May and Lever in defence with maybe Harmes joining them... Forward line still a raffle...but looks better with Fritsch there, Trac and other mids rotating, Tommy doing his bit and we look a chance. Richo and Burgess are good additions. Some goods kids pressing for selection and hopefully this story is a thing of the past. A blip on the radar on the way to ultimate success.

It was a very exciting finals series but geez did we nearly blow it before the finals. We were comfortably second for most of the year and actually beat Hawthorn during the season. Then we dropped 5 games straight from round 17-21. We had to beat second placed Carlton in the last game of the season to hold 5th. We did and then put those 3 finals wins together. We were fortunate to beat the Eagles in the wet at VFL Park, thanks to a great Lyon snap and a Murray Wrensted miss basically on the siren and we always had the Pies under control in the first semi. We beat the Blues on a rainy, windy day and lost O'Dwyer to suspension after that game. Hawthorn were a great team but we should have been more competitive on the big day. Still it was a great week in the lead up and all the neutrals were cheering us on. Still, 1990 was the one that got away. If ever there was a flag there for the taking for us it was that one.

I suspect kozzie will be first. Meets a desperate need (crumbling forward wirh x factor), fitness nor such a critical requirement in his position and is built like a bar fridge.

Think both were really good era's, with both having their strengths and weaknesses. Running into 2 of the best teams in history in Hawks 88 and Bombers 00, made things difficult. 87 was our best chance under Swooper and we were on a roll, but had we got through similar to the 2018 prelim we may have run our race, Robbie Flower and Brian Wilson would have both been out, 10 previous weeks ( including H & A + finals) and a warm day with the Blues having the weeks rest may have been a bridge to far 98 IMO was Dannihers best side with the mix of experience and youth, we were flying early in the finals and the old finals system didn't do us any favours, because I reckon going into finals with our form ourselves and North were the 2 best sides going in. I would have fancied us against them week 1 of the finals but Jeff White's injury didn't help for the Prelim. Danners sides from 2000-06 just lacked key defenders and from 02-06 we paid for poor end of season runs costing us double chances

You might want to read this article. Particularly the bit that cites the Victorian police categorically stating that none of the fires affecting the state, were deliberately lit by arsonists. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/australia-where-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-spread-like-bushfire?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I was fortunate enough to witness the stirring run home in 1987 - 6 in a row and relying on others to lose. Northey was a terrific coach who extracted everything from his group. 1990 we were the best team in the comp but unfortunately we had a shocker against North and lost by 127 points which cost us percentage and the double chance. We won 16 games and finished 4th. We beat top side Essendon twice including at Windy Hill and beat Hawthorn in consecutive weeks including the Elimination Final to end their run of consecutive GF's which stretched from 1983-89. We were the only team that could really trouble Collingwood - we had knocked them out of the 1988 and 89 finals series- yet inexplicably got rolled by WC at Waverley in the first semi. There went Northey's best hope of landing us a flag. Daniher did a great job in 1998 and we were capable of beating anyone. In fact we rolled the eventual premier in the first final of that year under the "old" final 8 system. 2000 we were never a chance against Essendon but it was nice to make the GF because it meant Carlton didn't! For me, I'd go for Northey - 5 successive years of finals with at least one win in each of those series. Other teams feared and respected us and of all the Victorian teams over the period 87-91 we had the best record against Hawthorn - no mean feat in that era.

It's an elephant in a matchbox

A work colleague was shaking his head and upset early last year and I asked him what was the problem. He is of Macedonian descent and he said problems in the homeland and renaming of Macedonia. I asked when the problems started and he said "Recently? 1821"....

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all Demonlanders. It’s been a tough year for our beloved club. Let’s hope we can bounce back in 2020. I want to thank our Mods @Nasher, @Whispering_Jack, @Grapeviney, @george_on_the_outer. They go above and beyond in their tireless work of keeping the forum civil and a friendly, inviting and inclusive place. Things can get heated in here especially in the tough times and the mods do a great job of keeping the peace. Thanks to my Podcast cohosts @Grapeviney, @Supermercado & @george_on_the_outer. It’s a tough job having to front up week in week out when you only win 5 games so thank you guys for not bailing on me. A big big thank you to our regular preseason trackwatchers @kev martin, @Baghdad Bob, @Satyriconhome, @DeeSpencer & anyone else who I’ve missed out. This year you guys have raised the bar and I look forward to your reports in the New Year. A million thank yous. And lastly but certainly not least thank you to all of you who make up this wonderful community. This forum is nothing without its contributors. Hopefully 2020 brings us that elusive Premiership so that we can all bitch about the cup not being shiny enough together. Bring on 2020. ???

Rance has cancelled his retirement and is heading to Dream Team HQ.

Trotting out Gawn, Oliver and May for a non-points contest doesn't really peel the skin from my banana but the cause is much greater than all of our collective concerns to be fair.

My thoughts exactly. I would prefer a telethon with as many big names involved.

Average coaches can do well with a good list. But not even JC can do well when your list is bog ordinary.

Northey era > Daniher era. The only metric I'm interested in is the win-loss stat and Northey beat Daniher 53.8% to 48.4%. Plus, Northey has been the only coach post 1964 to deliver us 3 finals wins in the one finals series. Who can guess which year that was? Goodwin is on 46.4% after his disastrous 2019.

He has a lot of mates rjay.

DS living in Sydney I am very grateful for you and any others who go to the trouble to write up what they see at pre season training. It's really appreciated. However, I have to say I read them mainly to read who's training and not for most poster's opinions unless they are repeating info they've been directly given by the coaches or to a lesser extent the players. To state those players were ready to go just isn't logically correct. To be correct it would mean that you can miss up to 50% of the pre season sessions and it doesn't matter. Of course you can't be the same player without them. I went to pre season sessions in mid Dec and late Jan and from memory Trac and Gus were in rehab throughout that significant part of pre season. Roosy once discussed how little time the coaches have to actually train the players in the preseason. He said that if a player misses the conditioning work pre Christmas they never catch up and it heavily impacts their season. Post Christmas they have to concentrate on developing how they play and not conditioning. Clearly if you line up the 2018 Clarry who's done all the sessions and the 2019 one the first one is going to stomp on the second one and that's born out by his stats and he was a lot less effected than Trac and Gus. It's a nonsense to dismiss that impact and think they are ready to go.

Chris Scott won a flag in his first year as a coach. That was in 2011. Hasn't won a flag since. I'm sure he would say that he is a far better coach now though. In short, the list is quite relevant to a coach's record.

I'm certainly no expert and have never claimed to be and I confess to not anticipating the effect last year's disastersous preseason would have on team performance. What I've learned over the last 12 months or so is how important a preseason is. We've heard so often players who are having good seasons say it started with the preseason. I didn't listen to that as I should have. Misson told the Board that our preseason would impact our start and of course injury before the first match and during the season didn't give us any chance to gain momentum. Burgess said a team that had as many have post season operations and so many off the track was always going to be in a bad position. Elite sportspersons who come back after injury always take time to return to their best form. We've seen it in many sports countless times and I can't see why footy would be any different. And Saty if your assertion that it was all mental is correct that's the most depressing of scenarios. Let's see how this season goes, it will tell us a lot.

Unfortunately, Mr hardtrack, we are trying to have a conversation with people whose minds are watertight and closed. I have a neighbour like that. He told me two weeks ago - he is a Herald Sun/Australian/Andrew Bolt fan - that Climate Change is rubbish. He's a terrific neighbour, a very decent human being and I've always liked him. However... In other words, what I'm trying to say is we're wasting our time arguing with people who have beliefs which go against the grain of scientific evidence. Copernicus had the same problem...

Seattle barely beat Philli seconds and will get pummeled by the packers. Vikings with a HUGE win over the saints. (Get stuffed Payton, sorry Breese) Sony Michel is now my most hated player as all others got a TD in my multi and that nonce couldn’t with multiple attempts from 1yrd.

In lieu of any real training reports at this time of year I can provide a little eye-witness report from this morning. Jack Viney and Jake Lever completed at least an hour of solid and intense running at an oval where I was also doing some group fitness training – so I was able to watch them pretty closely for the 60 mins while I was there (in breaks between my own intense workout of course!). 100m sprints, 50m sprints, shorter and more dynamic agility work, then some kicking of the footy. Was very impressed with the sprinting they were both doing given their recent issues of the last few years. Both looking very smooth and quick, not hampered at all, from what I could tell. Jack especially looked really smooth, fast and lean. Not much else to add but from my perspective they both look in tip top shape and appear to be two very highly driven individuals. On the morning of NYE there was also a slightly larger group with Lever, Salem, Jetta and Weideman at the same ground but they were finishing as I arrived so didn’t see how they went on that occasion.

Saty they weren't ready physically. If what you're suggesting is right nobody would consider practicing. Tennis players, golfers, cricketers and the list goes on. They'd do a few running and gym sessions and not lift a bat, racket or club. We all know that's not the case. They practice what they do before a game. They hit ball after ball after ball This is important in an individual sport but doubly so in a team sport because not only do you have the individual skills that need honing you have a game plan to mesh with 21 other players that needs hours of practice. In 2019 we didn't have that and it showed in every facet of our game. People often use Oliver as an example of someone who "didn't need a preseason to have a good season". Rubbish. 2019 was a shadow of his 2018 and if your assertion is correct it should have been better given his age and the natural progression that should have taken place. People are focusing on the injury toll but it's the preseason. The skills practice so many missed out on. The game plan execution so many missed out on. The match fitness so many missed out on. It's been reported that the PA players went to the three quarter time huddle knowing we were shot physically. All they had to do was keep running. They did and they won easily despite the game being in the balance at that point. We weren't physically ready and we were not "ready to go". It's quite simple really.

Speaking with my Uncle over the years (he has now passed on) as a Richmond Supporter, he often told me how big and hated The MFC was. Up until 1964 it was the MFC and The Filth followed by everyone else. We had won 6 flags in 10 years and been Runners Up twice. We were hated, make no mistake. Sad to think how far we have fallen, through poor management over 50 + years

My Trolls Asson Squad post was aimed at Mr Jakovich and his ilk who believe the fires are the results of arsonists.

If you’re referring to the SMH article quote I posted, then...no. Those are factual figures, but they are arsonists who were caught lighting fires, and as far as I’m aware, none of those fires took hold. Only one fire, again, to the best of my knowledge, was caused indirectly by humans, and that was a large fire in SA that was started by sparking electrical wires.

Yes, I know about them... but even if it was arsonists, who are responsible for lighting such fires every year, the fires should never have taken off the way that they have; that is purely down to conditions that have become increasingly volatile over the years courtesy of, gasp, climate change. I liken the deniers to fundamentalist christians who deny the science in favour of their own belief systems. The fact that these fires are unprecedented and the fact that by the end of November, the fires had burnt out more bush land than the previous three bushfire seasons combined, tells me that this is more than just fires being a normal part of the cycle. The deniers are so short on arguments, that they try to blame the Greens and protestors for the fact that the conditions are so bad... something that has been refuted by even the fire fighting agencies.

This from the Sydney Morning Herald: “This fire season, police have taken legal action - ranging from cautions to charges - against 180 people including 24 people charged over deliberately lit bushfires, 53 who allegedly failed to comply with a total fire ban and 47 who allegedly discarded a lit cigarette or match.” https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-facing-legal-action-over-lighting-fires-20200107-p53pla.html

Yes?

Dusty Martin wasn't anywhere near fit and Tom Lynch looked like he just picked up a footy for the first time when they played early in the season and then ended up dominating finals. Guys can and do start the year underdone and improve if they are well managed and surrounded by fit and capable players. Petracca and Oliver were examples of that. I'm not saying they were 100% ready but they'd done enough to play and if surrounded by a fit side and well managed they'd improve through the year. Who knows the absolute minimum percentage but someone like Oliver is probably good enough to get a game on 50% assuming he's safely ticked the boxes in returning to training and playing practice games which he had. Limit game time, move him forward, have a fit side around him and he'd be fine. Roos loves hard and fast rules that suit his agenda, it's never that easy. Every great side is going to have preseason and midseason injuries and these days even mid season draft picks. There's going to be guys coming in with no AFL preseason at all. The performances of a few underdone guys was just one of so many problems that included guys who shouldn't even have been playing (Viney, Jones, Oscar), losing more players on the eve of the season and as it went on, lack of depth in the outside runners, insufficient training numbers for high intensity drills etc.

I used to like? 3GL.... Ump bounces the ball, big tap by Polly, Goggin charging through, Walker gets to it, great spoil by West..... Goal to Melbourne Bad luck cats, 2 free kicks missed.....

Just as you climate change deniers will conveniently take everything that Murdoch chooses to publish, as gospel. And I'm referring to the Murdoch press who relegated the fires to page 4 in favour of a picnic races day last week (oh, and you have to love this bit: "The Shoalhaven fires were lit between July and September last year, with Kempsey recording 27 deliberately lit fires, NSW Bureau of Crime and Statistics and Research data shows." - nothing to do with the current fires). Approximately half of the fires each year are caused by a combination of human activity and lightning strikes (the latter being attributed the the largest of the current fires). The other issue is prevailing weather conditions and fires spreading through cinder attacks. A report from a source that stands to gain nothing through bias: https://globalnews.ca/news/6366259/what-causes-australia-wildfires/

I hope all our Country Members are ok in these Bushfires. stay Strong. Long way to go yet...

The best commentator Melbourne moment I can remember: I get goosebumps every time I hear "Melbourne fans, breathe it in!"

Happy new year, I hate you all!

Sue our form from 1965 onwards was not bad luck. The Club totally miss read the environment it was in when TV first arrived, it also miss read the new Contracts being offered at that stage. it wasn’t enough to “just play at The MCG” as an offer to play for us. Richmond took our place over 2-3 years, and we have never been able to pull it back. Yes Richmond had a long drought and they had to rattle tins, but they NEVER lost their Supporter base, which is exactly what we missed out on in the late 1960’s-70’s It comes down to Leadership, which is why i mentioned it in the first place. We can still be a Powerhouse Club again, we have the name. But we must demand and expect shrewd and innovative Leadership all through the Club, onfield and off But i cannot stress that original point enough, by missing the boat with TV in the mid to late 1960’s was a massive hit. The First Game I remember going to was the 1970 GF. 121,000 people were there (somehow!) and so much of that rivalry between Carlton and Collingwood was due to TV exposure on Saturday Nights.

At least i give an opinion. Have no idea what yours are, You just throw darts ?

It wasn't surprising that the opposition during that period were accurate......we had little in the way of defenders! With little pressure, easy shots ensue. During that period we were missing Lever and Jetta for the whole time. May - all the period except for 1 game. But we also lost Hibberd, Salem, Lewis and Hore at some point for a couple of weeks. So it wasn't bad luck, we just didn't have the cattle to hold out the opposition. One would think that putting Lever, May and Jetta into those games in 2019 would have seen the opposition kick a couple of goals less. It was remarkable how close we were in those games..... The positive is (as you have alluded.)...it shouldn't happen again with the players now on the pre-season track.

Spot on. I raised this point that the opposition’s accuracy was killing us as much as our own poor footy. Not sure if it was coincidence or to do with our lack of fitness. Check out this for a crazy 6 week period between rounds 7-12 which ultimately killed off our season. Melbourne - 53.80 (average 9.13.67) Opposition total. 76.45 (average 13.7.85) That’s basically an 18 point loss but 2 more scoring shots a a game. Hawthorn, GC and Collingwood combined a total of 12.0 in the last quarters of those three games. That’s surely just bad luck. (Ironically we won two of those games but that’s beside the point. The above mentioned opposition accuracy conversion of 63% over 6 weeks is a complete anomaly and would be unlikely to be repeated again this year.

I'm responding to you, but it's wasted on you, so it's really for others. What couldn't be replicated by simply running was contested work. In a quality preseason contested work, i.e. bumping into bodies, tackling, competing for pack marks, getting up quickly after you've just been brought to ground, sprinting to tackle when you're fatigued, etc. is all part of the necessary preparation to get you ready for the most brutal team sport in the world. None of our midfielders completed even half a proper preseason and most didn't start any contested stuff until February. It also doesn't provide players with any confidence that they're ready. They know what's required and they also know what's less than ideal. Confidence is huge in footy and most players heading into round one would have had serious trepidation as to whether they'd done the work required. Preseason running to get a fitness base simply doesn't cut it in the modern game, chap.

One aspect of the team’s performances that was often commented upon until well into the season was its general inaccuracy in front of goal compared with that of the opposition. This was particularly noticeable in the final quarter for game after game. The Adelaide game was a perfect example but there were a number of examples until the wheels fell off completely in the last seven rounds. I was discussing this with someone from outside of the club who is well qualified and highly thought of in the fitness field. His observation was that he attributed it mainly to lower levels of stamina at the end of games brought on by an insufficient fitness base of the group due to a lack of a proper pre season. Once the tiredness sets in, it also affects the mental side of things as well. This is something that we’ve known for some time but what we underestimated was the severity of the problem. Because so many of our players had limited preseasons it hurt us badly.

My neice bumped into Milky in Dromana looking fit and healthy on NY Day. She left him to his parenting duties.

My post was looking at if KK had never been injured in the first place and what each player's ceilings would be in the role. His games for us this year are pretty much null and void after how much football he missed. He really shouldn't have been in the team in the first place imo.

This was where the well known draft watchers had Rivers in their power rankings: Draft Central: 13 Knightmare: 20 Cal Twomey: 23 Looks to be a good get at pick 32.

So good to see Rhino Richards still lurking in the dark , without saying a word.