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Yay another wrist slitting thread. 9th or 18th is the same. We will be fine next year.

It's alright though! We've had injuries, and there's always next year! Besides, pick 2 on the horizon! Look on the bright side! Goodwin is the man! etc etc In all honesty, the further the season progresses, the worse it gets. We're going to finish below Carlton. I don't give a [censored] what the variables are. Or how many injuries we've had. It's abhorrent. It's a [censored] disgrace where we are. Goodwin should be presenting and raising the stakes for his own and the team's KPIs for 2020. He and is football department have utterly destroyed the fabric, albeit thin one, that had been established by Roos and Jackson. I can accept a drop after 5 years of linear growth consider where we were. But where we are now...it's inexcusable. Jones, Gawn, TMac, Lewis should be embarrassed. Leadership onfield has been pathetic. I'm giving Goodwin 16 matches to turn it around. And that's generous considering how much of a [censored] mess this team is in right now.

I think it pisses people like me, and others, off how you can generalise our feelings about the season as just 'shrugging our shoulders' because we look at things in a rational manner. Do you really think after each loss I shrug my shoulders and move on? Of course not. No one here would have that reaction. I just choose to look at things a little deeper than jumping off the deep end. I'm not saying you do that personally mind you. But the past, to the current crop of players, is totally irrelevant. The '87 Prelim, Norm Smith sacking so on and bloody so on have nothing to do with the current people at the club. Nothing. And even if it was relevant, what do you want them to do in terms of acknowledging it? Do you want them to discuss how we shouldn't run over the mark in a Prelim every time they review a game? I'm not in denial. I'm living in the now. And the now is that, after four years of good, incremental progress and generally good list management, we've had a shocker this year. The only unprecedented part is potentially how far down the ladder we finish, but we aren't making finals so I'm not too fussed where we finish due to what we've slogged through this year. Other clubs have done it - the Hawks won a flag and then missed the finals. The Eagles were great for a few years and then dropped right off to finish for a season in the bottom four. I'll make it clear that I'm not comparing our side to the Hawthorn's of the late 00s, but it's not as if Melbourne are the only club to do this. And there are major circumstances as to why. I acknowledge that changes need to be made, both in the box (I think Misson moving on is a very good thing) and on the field. We've got some crucial decisions to make, no doubt about it, but we won't be basing it or thinking about the past. We need to think about what's best for the club moving forward. To me, the only people who are scarred by the past are supporters. If those supporters want to live in the past and slash their wrists about it, be my guest. I won't be joining you. I'm already looking ahead with anticipation at how we go about our off season and getting back up the ladder again in 2020. I'd expect the club to be doing the same.

Hate is a strong word and I don’t hate many things in life, but by god I hate the Essendon Football Club. No other club compares....and to think I used to think Richmond and Collingwood came close..

I know he doesn'tplay for us anymore, but just saw that Hogan has been ruled out for the remainder of the year due to a recurring injury to his navicular.. Poor bloke just cant take a trick. I really do hope his mental well being is well looked after by the dockers. My understanding was after he did his injury last year it really rocked him on an emotional point of view after watching us go deep into September. All the best Hoges.

I'm frustrated, Wise. I have perhaps unrealistically high standards but those standards are a product of a personally successful career. I lose sleep after one week of missing target at work even if we're at 120% of target for the year. I understand the corporate world is different to the football world but I have worked with professional sporting organisations in the past both locally and abroad, and the application, targetting, tracking, celebration and accountability of KPIs is consistent across the most successful organisations. We keep being told these are being applied at MFC but then I see us lingering near last on the ladder. I can't help but get angry. It's in my blood. I know there are many variables that have hurt us this year. The reasonable man in me gives a pass to a degree, but I cannot oversee or forget this. The pass is temporary. I have had many mentors over the years. They are always zen-like in their criticism and delegation, a trait I am still trying to learn, to get people to follow me without the use of fear or threat. It's a unique trait to get people to do that. But the consistent theme amongst them is the complete and utter contempt for failure. That's not to say you, or anyone else here that disagrees with me is accepting of failure. Apologies if I have said otherwise. I was wrong. I will try to be more accepting and rational in my responses. I am very critical and harsh towards failure. I know we all are. But I've been conditioned in such a way where it's very difficult for me to not see consistently linear growth or stability. The crash this year, from a former business analyst's point of view, tells me we are back at square one, and it will be a long way back. and this is the rare occasion where quick change is actually necessary. fail quickly. this is why round 10 2020 is the cutoff.

Geez I miss the the threads on “what opposition supporters are saying”...

All those who say next year we will be ok, I admire your enthusiasm, but for the rest of us it is totally unacceptable this club finds itself in after Jackson & Roos rebuilt for 3 years. We have high draft picks who continually misfire and for unknown reasons do not play to their potential. This must be down to the whole football department. Skills, playing style and especially attitude of the playing group just stinks. Apologies to Gawn who plays his heart out every week. Supporters must be devastated and above all damn angry. My interest in AFL is just spluttering because of this club.

Well done, you have a skill in exaggeration. And 9th is most clearly and obviously not the same 18th. For so many reasons I'm not sure where to begin. What a strange thing to say.

My youngest played halftime little league for the Dees v Eagles game at Optus. It was my first time walking on the optus surface. Noticeably harder than Subiaco Oval. Perth Ovals are built on sand which compacts hard and drains well, which doesn't allow for water to settle in like it does with mud/muck making it softer underfoot I think it's always going to be an issue at Optus

We won’t be flogged. This team almost never is when it looks like we should be on paper. Floggings only come when it looks close on paper. Not sure I’m prepared to go quite as far as calling a win though. Regarding Wagners: I reckon their deficiency gets massively exaggerated on here. They don’t have much point of difference and they don’t have the extra gear needed to give us the lift we’re all looking for, but they’re both capable of being quite competent AFL footballers. This type of player always looks awful when looking through an angry lense and great when high on victory, but I think in reality they’re just middle of the road. Sure, we’d all love for better players to be available, but I reckon the thought that T.Smith or Baker or JKH or whoever would make a difference to the outcome is just delusional. They’re all in the same boat (with Baker having the youth upside).

Anyone using statistics isn't really getting it either. My eyes tell me we've been awful. Measured is accepting injuries play a part, blaming the entirety of the drop off on injuries is foolish There has been a domino effect by a number of factors starting with the last two months of last year. Talking about previous footy depts is pointless Those who claim Roos as a messiah and desperately calling for him back need to accept he wasn't without fault he chose and anointed Goodwin, he went down the line of recruiting all Bulls over outside run he focussed on defence taking away attacking flair of players I believe we 2 to 3 years away from being regular finals side

Our game plan, disposal and decision making is a disgrace. Won't be fixed up with a fit list.

It was exactly what’s killing AFL. SHOCKING DECISION

'87 marked 23 years out of the finals... it nearly killed this club.. (remember the merger) One finals series in fifteen years... join the dots The club is the environment in which the team performs and our club is lacking. Collingwood may have gone 32 years without a flag but they certainly didn't go 23 years or even 14 without a finals appearance.

Anyone who thinks that a clean bill of health next year is all it’ll take to make us “fine” again, is deluding themselves and ignoring some serious issues and gaps we currently have on our list.

55 friggen years in the Wilderness. We have players that are easily satisfied, An excuse with injuries which as everyone knows is NO excuse, and a coach that seems to want to be ur mate and worse has no plan B, C, and D, Yes Simon tough Gig AND....... We all hurt....AND yep things didn't turn out Right BUT FFS FIX IT!!!

"We will be fine next year" Because that saying has always been accurate for MFC hasnt it... Lets take 2018 for example. MFC supporter : "We will be top 4 next year". (2019) How did that work out. I certainly hope we will be fine next year, but i am smart enough not to have any expectation that we actually will be. Taking things for granted is something NO Melbourne supporter should ever do. Ever.

It all started well as I strolled in the sunshine though the turnstiles to be greeted by John Denver's Take me Home Country Road over the public address. Went to take up my position on the Berwick Hill and almost blown away. The wind blew constantly towards to the Frankston end. As a game this one has to rank with the worst Australian rules exhibition I have watched. Picture 36 men in about one eighth of the ground having a maul. It rarely got much better. Geelong won it with their third quarter when their taller players allowed them to exit the Casey backline. Very hard to do against the wind. Casey players gave their all but hard to judge anyone's game. Smith and Keilty both took strong marks and goaled but forward 50 marks were a rarity. Would add one other point.. the Casey ground needs serious work on its drainage. Took a good walk around the arena at quarter time. In many parts you just sank into the turf. Not really AFL standard. Great to see Casey make it a close game.

Come back

“Oh Father Oh Father....The shame....”

I just saw Hannan chase for 40m. Maybe he received the message. Dunkley not playing

After listening to Whately ‘s absolute Puff Piece interview with Gillian last week, i regard him as nothing more than a light weight Jeelong megaphone ?

You might be right but what's eerie is that it all keeps happening. You can't ignore the facts. I mean, it makes me laugh just how much we've dropped off this year. It's unprecedented. Coach killing. And distinctively Melbourne. Some of the stats are mind boggling. I think it just pisses people off that other shrugs their shoulder at a 17th place finish, which seems likely. We absolutely need to be passed that but somehow we find ourselves "Doing a Melbourne" and regressing so badly that it's hard not to make a connection. You say those past events are irrelevant. But history repeats. Culture lingers. I think a lot of you are in denial tbh.

J Wagner is a back/defender, while the others aren't. i.e. it's not a choice between Baker and JW for example, as they play different positions. It would suggest that they want Lewis in the middle or playing a tagging role, plus some cover/relief for an underdone Jetta. With Petty moved forward, JW is next cab off the rank. (Actually, with our injuries, when it comes to half-backs, he's the only cab off the rank ...) But heh, lord forbid that I suggest that the FD know what they're doing, I realise it's not how it's done around here.

Not in the named side but there's a late change to the Casey Demons VFL team with 2018 Dandenong Stingrays premiership player Matt Gahan making his debut for Casey today.

peptides' workrate is enormous they don't give up and they keep fighting at the moment - they're on a run not too dissimilar to that which we had last year as a football side they play a brand of footy that is entertaining to watch

In practical terms it's a smart move (in today's footy) We should try it and see if we can retain or regain possession from those long bombs to the pockets. For all the work we go to in trying to convert our inside 50's, we might as well bomb it longer to the pockets and try our luck. Create a stoppage and win the stoppage (close to goal) It's difficult to rebound quickly in a crowded forward line near the behind posts. The Tigers did something similar in their premiership year. Ugly to watch for a percentage of the neutrals but those with a vested interest watch for the winning alone. The aesthetics are gone anyway.

We also have the worst defence What a year

Nailed it. Their outs would be equivalent to ours however find a way to turn a 5 goal deficit into a 3 1/2 goal win. Also for those that bag our skippers need to have a look at what I consider the worst captain in the game in Walker. He went missing in that GF and again tonight. If I was the Crows I would look to get rid of him pronto. Going gets tough and he plays in the stands.

Tragic for a kid with so much talent who just keeps getting knock backs in life. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

Nothing sticks to rich white man. Just ask Donald Trump.

As true now as 3 months ago We miss Hogan more than I expected. Can't blame the club just a fact if life but it sucks even if he has underperformed this year and now had the ongoing foot injury. Still wish him all the best seems like a decent bloke who had had way too much [censored] to deal with

The stats say our problems are up forward. The midfield is still winning contests and clearances but conversion inside 50 is woefull. We know delivery has been haphazard for much of the season, just bombing it long to a pack and hoping for a mark from TMac, Weid or Max if he is there. For 90% of those bombs the ball has spilled to ground and come straight back out and shown up our lack of two way running. Time and time again I have asked where are our crumpers, goal sneaks, they don’t seem to exist unfortunately. Now it has occurred to me that the 20 or so times I have attended training this year I have never seen us simulate what is happening every game day, that is having our small forwards roving off packs to shark the spilled ball and kick a goal. All our game simulation has us moving the ball quickly and finding a forward target. Great practice but it is not happening game day and our small forwards are not learning or practicing to crumb off a pack. Just an observation, we are not practicing like we are playing up forward.

Trac should be like a chunky De Goey, running amok and terrorising defenders. He's being asked to think too much. Should be going on instinct.

Should be orange jump suits ?

Langdon isn't a defender. Not from what I've seen anyway. And he has what you're asking for - outside speed.

Not to mention that Spargo is still just 19 years of age. He played an important role for us during our surge for the finals at just 18 years of age. The kid has the ability, and drop off at his age isn't uncommon. I think it would be short sighted for supporters to write him off just yet.

We're downhill skiers who regularly veer off the course and hit a tree.

Last time we played in Alice Springs we won by 91 points with Angus Brayshaw BOG with 37 touches and 3 goals. ANB got the 3 brownlow votes with 3 goals and 23 touches. I'm expecting much the same this weekend.

Listen I've bit my tongue for 5 months now but this (like your the club will never move forward till everyone involved with 186 is gone) is ridiculous. You are one of the many who lives in the past moaning about your sad 55 years following the club, let me set you straight this playing group has nothing to do with the past They are not haunted by Norm Smith 186 is nothing to them now, (it would if anything made the Elimination final win a little more enjoyable for Chunk Gawn and anyone else who was on the list) The Neeld years The only legacy the past has on this list is the void caused by poor drafting in between the Danners and Neeld eras The players will be well and truly over the Prelim final loss or did you miss Bakers debut at Optus when we kicked ourselves out of the game. This weeks game has nothing to do with last season BB is somewhat right about being run into the ground at the end of the season but they went for broke and fell short. You roll the dice and this is where we are at, seasoned players get conditioned to that I anticipate the old " You just accept mediocrity" response but you couldn't be further from the truth. mark this down. Until the core of Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes, Weid, Trac, Lever, Spargo, Frost, Baker, Salem, Pruess, Gawn, Hannan, Hore and Petty get a decent spread of between 80-150 games across them and Viney, May, Tmac, Melksham start pushing 150+ we will not see consistent top 4 contention over successive years. Others will come in and out but that is the core moving forward for sustained contention. It's the legacy left because of the recruiting mistakes which left the void

And ..... while they are improving the game ..... I think the AFL needs to take a good hard look at this idea of kicking the football Far too much of it ATM

Hawks, GWS, Geelong, Eagles = 4 top 8 sides last season but knock yourself out to suit your argument Not to mention the Crows were in the 8 when we pantsed them in the NT last season FMD the sky is falling