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Evidently I didn't make clear enough the absolute devotion and love I have poured into this club throughout my life. To suggest I jump ship is frankly a little insulting, especially to scum like Hawthorn. All I wanted was to lay my despondency on the table, off my chest where it has been building for the last 20 weeks.

There is no negative emoji to put onto posts so I will say this: Those that want to trade Hogan are betraying their lack of footy knowledge and intelligence. And they are also revealing they don’t know what ‘drives’ football clubs. Hogan playing hurt for the team must give a little bit extra for the players and he has my appreciation and admiration as a supporter. He was also in the discussion for AA earlier in the year. Beggars belief some of your neuroses, Land.

There are similarities between all our loses at the MCG against good opposition this year. They've actually been almost carbon copies. 1) we've dominated games early but have squandered our dominance in front of goal (Hawthorn, Richmond and now Sydney). 2) given up really easy stoppage goals and failed to arrest the momentum by creating or taking chances. 3) we've allowed the opposition (Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond and Sydney) easy exits out of their back half. All of those teams have followed the same exit strategy. Short chip to an unmarked player in the pocket and then another chip to fifty and handballed out or kicked long to the boundary and reset. That we haven't been able to prevent this or put anything in place to stop this is staggering. You could see it was a problem with our forward zonal set up literally an hour into our Round 1 game. So whilst Goody and his coaching staff aren't responsible for our players choking in front of goal, they are culpable for failing to address issues in our system that have been present all year. I'm not going to highlight any one players performance, but for me, we've not only thrown away a top 4 spot, but we've most likely thrown away our finals chance.

Just wanna check . . . is that the same Hogan that: has the ball constantly kicked on top of his head has the ball kicked to his defensive side regularly competes against two or three opponents because we move the ball slowly or in unpredictable patterns has the ball dropped in front of him was a lock for AA in the middle of the season was rated top 15 players in the comp by The Roar a month ago flies against (take your pick) Pedo/Max/Harmes/Trac/Hotdog stand vendor runs his guts out to make position at half forward for a clear receive only to see the ball fumbled or turned over by (take you pick) ANB/Spargo/Jones/Tyson/Frost is so bugged by the time he does get the ball that he can't kick straight? Yeah . . . trade him I recon.

Get stuffed

Gee, 'suspect when pressured' is really tough on Salem. He had 22 possessions @ 95.5%. 5 marks. 6 R50's. 4 Tackles. He ran and he bounced and he kicked true. Am genuinely curious as to what you saw to think he was suspect.

14 disposals at 100% efficiency, ran hard all day, mostly nailed his tackles, wasn't beaten in too many contests, was quiet in the 2nd and 3rd - guess what wing/flankers often are - but was one of the better players in the last term.

I don’t care if we finish in the 8 via the sale of magic beans. I just want us to play finals. Feels like reaching for the stars.

I don't understand this "club owes me" tripe. On radio when I hear a supporter complain because the club has fallen short at the last hurdle etc...I vomit. Get on board, enjoy the ride, endure the pain, and if/when the ultimate arrives, it will be the sweetest victory of all. Paradoxical that we want our players to be tough and smart out there, and off the field, we as supporters are feeble and simple.

i still dont understand this hostility to the coach, if our players had kicked straight then we would not be having this conversation. yes he played some players that did not work, but at the same time he has played others that did during the year. A few weeks ago a lot of supporters were bagging frost selection are now praising it and next week may be bagging it again. All plans go out the window once the ball is bounced. you deal with what you have at the time. We cannot have a team waiting for the coach to tell them the obvious. Our players did not adjust, they did not man up and they did not cover/chase. We can match it with any team on our day, our problem is our sometime crap kicking, what sort of score would we have had if even half of those kicks that went to aliir went to one of our players. we have proven we can get the ball into our foward 50 against all sides, what we do with it inside 50 is the main problem. I think jeffy needs a rest, he does not chase and pressure as i would expect a small forward. our players seem to think we have a high marking forward line so bomb it in. We dont, Hogan and mcDonald are good marks but not consistently in packs. they do best one on one. we need our players to take more care when sending it into our forward line. try putting it in front of our players so they can run onto to it. kick it back. spread. Lastly MFC should really invest in a sports psychologist to help hogan with his runup and kicking. he does not need a kicking coach he knows how to kick, what he needs to learn is to relax and get his runup flowing and hopefully his kicking will improve.

I blame Bohdan Babijczuk.

It's his gait. I have been saying for a very long time. He walks and runs like a pregnant cow. He is bandy legged as well. He must be putting a lot of pressure on other parts of his body because of it.

You forgot: - the camp - going to the AFLPA instead of the coaching team - Jack Watts - Norm Smith curse - Jack Watts - Dom Tyson - Oscar McDonald - Jack Watts

Jesse has had 365 disposals, taken 125 marks and kicked 47 goals so far this season playing both as a deep forward and up the ground. But nah, let's trade him and put our faith in a kid that hasn't really done a thing at senior level. I worry for our supporter base sometimes.

Maybe we should get Neeld back, hey Garry?

We just needed to win 1 of these 5 so we could qualify for the 8. Not asking them to push an elephant upstairs.

Because we are a very ordinary football team

No, he's totally wrong. At the moment I would think finishing 8th would be about where we are at. We can beat the 10 teams below us (given I think Geelong will finish above us) and can't beat the 7 above. That's what the ladder is for Garry...that's not default. His argument about performing on the big stage has some merit, that's why we are sitting just in the 8 and not top 4.

Posted on another thread that I spoke to Hunt at last week's game.and he told me his VFL form was rusty. I was staggered to see him selected off the back of one rusty game at Casey. Also he has been coached out of form. He now second guesses everything he does and no longer backs himself and plays on instinct

Harmes was excellent today. I dont care what he says post match. When it counted on the field James harmes stepped up. Shame not many joined him.

Take a second to look at the posters who agree at all with the OP. Once you have, you'll have all the answers you need. Joke of a thread.

Are people for real about Hogan? All Australian contention until 6 weeks ago when he did his ankle. Is playing on one leg now and still kicked bags of 4 twice. It's not his fault we don't have good enough Fs in the wings to take his spot when he's lame. I know everyone's upset and everything, and rightly so.... but is this what Demonland has come to? Whining about trading Hogan in his best season yet? Fair dinkim the stupidity in this place is a joke sometimes.

My favourite was this one: "They should introduce a 'commiserations jumper' with the 22 pea hearts that played the final round of the season last year and the 22 that will play Round 23 this year wear it with their names on it. Yuck what an embarrassment. I've had a gutful".

Anyone who thinks we lost because of our kicking for goal is clueless. watch the second quarter. watch our defensive awareness (or lack thereof). Watch the latest All Access video on the AFL website. The club hasn't played finals in 11 years, we continue to buy memberships...watching that [censored] is infuriating. It was round 23 all over again. They were two down on the bench ffs. We are in year 5 of a rebuild. we mark the ball at half back with 90 seconds left, and look for a short pass. How dense can you be? How much of a loser can you be? To make finals we have to -- in two weeks -- break every stereotype that has clouded the club for 50 years. We haven't done it in 5 decades. How are we going to do it in 2 weeks?

No. It's the greatest non-issue in footballing history. Did it matter when we won 6 on the trot? Of course not. It doesn't matter now either. Composure around the ground and improving our game plan has nothing to do with lugging a brick up a hill.

Wait 2 weeks

You could add: - Nath Jones' leadership - ANB - Goodwin not being the right guy

It seems a lot of people are big fans of Goodwin. I'm on the fence. If we make finals this year I'll be more convinced. If given the choice between Goodwin next year or grabbing Clarkson, I know who I'd be throwing buckets of cash at. There are coaches out there getting max output from inferior lists. Goodwin is not one of those coaches. In fact, I think we have under performed again this year. My biggest issue is the lack of learning from game to game. We've had a lot of close matches this year, yet we repeat pretty much the same mistakes in each one. We are bloody lucky Betts missed that easy shot two weeks ago, or we would have lost that game as well.

I have been angrier during and after games this year than I have for a long time. Obviously my expectations of the team are higher, but they still manage to disappoint often enough that I have broken 2 mobile phones this season and probably taken a year or two off my dog's life. He hides under the office desk during games.

And @Fifty-5 - our best players are proverbial babies whose decision making will improve when they mature. The future MFC team is much better than this one - I just worry we are not taking advantage of a year where anyone can win. Like a young team with flawed leaders near their end...

And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. Playing injured us no excuse once the white line is crossed. If injured, rest him and play someone else. Clearly I'm not as wedded to keeping Hogan as some on here. I'd prefer to retain him, but if the price is right and he is having 2nd thoughts, let's do it. For this season, I'm more worried about the long bombs i50 and our inability to convert set shots.

5 games lost by under a couple of goals. Most of these close losses were because of the teams weak mental ability and a lack of experience in the coaching box.. Imagine the completely different feeling around the club and the belief the players would be generating had we nutted up and eked out those wins. We are in the window but are already blowing one of our chances this season.

Whether you agree or disagree with the OP, this is a scenario that deserves discussion. I believe our squad lacks both the leg-speed and the polish to perform deep into September. How do we get it? Maybe, just maybe, we can snag Gaff as a RFA. Or a Hall type. Otherwise we're going to have to trade for the picks that can then be on-traded for ready-made players with the attributes we need to balance our list. Whose got currency? Hogan. You'd want a lot in return, but he's not untouchable.

Thanks guys. You've given me a much needed laugh. I'll settle for a well tuned car with no passengers!

The word early on was that an ex footballer Earl Spalding was the goal kicking coach but in recent days I have heard that we hired a South American handball star called Ikant kikforshit so not totally sure which one it is now.

I don't usually post after a loss because I don't want to say something I'll regret (not a hard and fast rule though) but I thought your post deserved a response, and I'll try to do it with kindness, because I do hear you. I watched Fitzroy destroy us by 190 pts. I watched us get heartbroken in 87 then destroyed in 88. I saw Essendon come back from (I think) 48 pts when we had won the first 5 games of the year. I watched craps sides (St Kilda aside) hold up the cup. I've seen us with talent to burn, and then burn that talent. I've seen more false dawns than you've had breakfasts. I was 5 years old before I saw our first win, and that was going to the G to watch them maybe 8-10 times a year. I've been burnt, scolded, chopped up, [censored] up, cut, smashed, stabbed, humiliated, and had my heart broken a million times by this club. But I keep coming back. Why do I do that? Because I was born with red and blue blood pumping through my veins into my MFC heart. I was Checker telling the boys to play like Demons. I was Barassi holding up yet another cup. I was Big Jim running over the mark. I was Smith at the Gabba. I was Yze stealing the game from Adelaide... Schwartz doing another knee... Flower sublimely taking on 3 opponents and making them look stupid... Gawn missing a sealer... Simmonds being pole-axed.... Froggy leaving his man to win a GF. I am all those things, and more. Because I am Melbourne. That's why I come back again and again. Because I know no other way, and would rather be in agony supporting my side when they finish last than support any other side that won the flag. I have no choice, but even if I did I'd still be here. Because I have faith. Faith that one day all of this will be repaid in spades.

Ummm why the hell didn’t any of his teammates stick up for him???

And you share them with me. This bloke absolutely cracks under pressure. That pathetic dropped mark in the middle, off the Petracca pass, which could have been better, granted, but nevertheless, ANB shat himself. It was obvious. That could have been the chance to do something and redeem himself, after at least 7-8 turnovers from him entering our F50. His skill errors kill us against good sides. I don't give a damn how far he runs, he has terrible ball skills, fumbles, gets in the way, cracks under pressure and destroys our forward thrusts. Yes he can snag a goal against the crap, but he is not AFL standard and IMO will never be.

You should give the Hawks a go pal they are generally thereabouts, no idea where their forum is but go find it and don’t let the Demonland door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Yes after 43 years of nothing in a way of glory, it is disappointing, gut wrenching, frustrating, soul destroying but it’s in your red and blue blood. We are the survivors. Players and coaches come and go for love and money but we stick to it. Resilience = MFC supporters

Three main take aways from today's game: 1. Kicking 18 behinds whilst dominating most of the play will generally lose you the game; 2. How many Swans passes that traveled 7m qualified as 15m by the umpires? 3. I seriously can not stand the telecast comentators today.

Sydney scored 13.9.87. Their season average is 12.9. So they were right around their average, both as to number of scoring shots and total score. We scored 10.18.78. Our season average is 15.13. So we were right around our average scoring shots, but nowhere near our average score. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that this inaccuracy is, largely, where the game was lost.

Jones - becoming dumb footballer Jetta - not dumb footballer Frost - mostly dumb footballer O.McDonald - less dumber now Salem - sometimes not dumb Pedersen - always been dumb T. McDonald - def dumb today Hogan - dumb teammates cost Garlett - super dupa dumb Petracca - often dumb choices Oliver - never, ever dumb Spargo - can't spell dumb Tyson - dumb, dumber, dumbest Brayshaw - second least dumbest Fritsch - not the dumbest Gawn - surrounded by dumb Harmes - leaving dumb behind Hunt OMG - really dumb Kennedy - Harris - dumb ... poor thing Lewis - yep - he's dumb. Neal - Bullen - top five dumbest

We had more scoring shots, and plenty of those were easy misses. Kick those and we win.

I'm dirty on this loss, but I'll let the rest of the usual suspects lose the plot, slash their wrists and do the usual ranting and raving. Seriously, go right ahead. We lost this game today in front of goal. Sure, they cut us up during periods of the game with their use by foot and our willingness to allow them space. But we should never have let them win this game of footy. When Hogan goaled and we were 3.7 it should have been 7.3, as we missed a slew of easy shots. If we were 6 goals up then they would have been dead and buried. But they weren't, they got a sniff and, as experienced sides do, they made their chances count when we didn't and we couldn't haul them back. I must admit that I was bemused at times by some of our decision making, and the implied pressure of the Swans meant that we rushed things at times when we didn't need to. We had every opportunity to win this game of footy, but we didn't make it count, and that's down to composure and skill execution under pressure. It's not down to leadership and all that stuff. We just didn't execute well under pressure. We certainly lacked some class at times and too many players went missing, but this isn't the end of the world. Seriously, it's not. We've got two games to go - win one and we're in. Simple as that.

Not usually in the camp of blaming the umpires, but Nicholls was frustrating me this arvo to the point of kicking seats at the G. He’d either: 1. Allow a non officiating umpire to call a free our way 2. Deem the contest halved, even if he’d just paid a free to them for the same thing 3. Give them a free, even if we’d done enough to win the free once or twice over before he could ping us third time up. We’ll never get a fair result with him at the helm. #cheatingbaldprick

What I do know for absolute certain is that we’d already be qualified for finals if those morons had selected Frost instead of Petty against St Kilda. Must be said that there were also plenty of morons on Demonland that posted Petty instead of Frost. Just laughable.

I saw Gus Brayshaw jingling his keys as he walked to his car after the game. Clearly too happy after the loss. Drop him.

If the following four things happen, then even if we lose both games we can make it: North lose to Adelaide Port lose to Collingwood Essendon lose to Richmond Port lose to Essendon If those happen, then when we get to our game vs GWS, both Port and Essendon will both have 12 wins (and North beating St Kilda puts them on 12 as well). Barring two blowout losses to WC and GWS, our percentage will keep us in the 8 above Port, Essendon and North and we won't even need to beat GWS. The four results above are not completely out of the question - I don't see Port beating Collingwood or Essendon beating Richmond, for example. I'm not so confident on North losing to Adelaide but it's entirely possible. But tbh I really don't see Port losing at home to Essendon in the final round, with finals to play for. Stranger things have happened, but I don't see it In order to miss with a 13th win: one of Geelong, North and Essendon (the 11-win teams) has to catch us on percentage (only Geelong can realistically do this); and Port has to win both games I don't see both of those happening - I just don't see Port winning both, us winning one and still Geelong catching us on percentage. tl;dr - we just need to win a game.