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Hawthorn did this repeatedly today to good effect. It bought some of their kicks an extra 10 metres by allowing the kicker to get out on an angle without the man on the mark cutting him off. It also got Gunston a goal early in the fourth quarter. IMO this should be outlawed by changing the rules: the protected zone should apply to the man on the mark who is otherwise defenceless. But until that happens, why don't we do it? Didn't any of our players see how frequently Hawthorn did it and how it helped them get out the back of our press?

I’m quite positive that you don’t watch the games. Omac unnoticeable? He’s probably been the biggest positive this year in terms of improvement.

According to the AFL tracker Alex Neal-Bullen today ran 17.2 km to make him equal 10th in the AFL for distances covered in a game since this started in 2017. Nine of the top ten records belong to Tom Scully and Andrew Gaff. He also had an equal game high 32 pressure acts. No doubt there are some areas of his game that he can still improve on but this kind of unheralded effort in a losing team deserves some recognition I reckon.

Just want to acknowledge the performance and the improvement of Oscar McDonald. He has real been a bright spot so far in 2018, seems like a completely new player.

I wish to bring this issue up as a point of discussion even though I'm aware that many posters are talking about it in other threads. Our two major problem areas are clearly our inability to convert inside 50's into genuine scoring opportunities and our inability to limit the opposition scoring when they enter their forward 50. For the former, the answer is seemingly more clear cut. We clearly lack players who possess high enough levels of composure, foot skills and smarts. Evidenced time and time again by our players entering the forward 50 with almost no care for what the outcome will be. Be it quick scrap kicks from stoppages from players like Petracca yesterday or pointless torpedos to a forward line that contains one key position height forward. This is not okay. I don't for one second believe that Goodwin has instructed our players to kick the ball aimlessly into our 50 in the hope that our crumbers will score from that type of play every single time. It is simply unsustainable and amatuer. There are so so many times I can see clear space for our players to kick into to the advantage of our forwards, but they simply don't. This issue hasn't been addressed at all since the beginning of the season. I believe it's a player issue and Goodwin must now either play two key talls in our forward line or send a heavy message to those who continue to move the ball into our forward line with no system to their thought. It's putrid. The latter/second point that is less clear cut to me is the way we setup as a defensive back six. In my opinion, the aggressive zone that Goodwin has implemented is in no way conducive to the type of backmen we have who are meant to be executing this type of setup. Is it not obvious that in order to successfully execute an aggressive zone defence, you need one of two strengths as a backline unit, preferably both. Kicking skills/composure and speed? Playing in an aggressive zone means you're guarding space rather than standing side by side to your opponent. Which also means you need fleet footed individuals who can read the play and have quick reaction times. Aside from Hunt and Frost who both lack composure and foot-skills anyway, we have nobody else in that backline who is quick. In fact, Lewis, Vince, Oscar, Lever and Jetta are all slow with Hibberd being the only one whose pace is good.. Out of that group, I'd say Lewis, Vince, Oscar and Hibberd are generally solid users of the ball however, Lewis is the only player who more often than not shows composure and calmness. The rest of our backline group are far too inconsistent with the way they handle pressure situations. (Although Lewis didn't exactly set the world on fire in that regard yesterday.) Take spoiling as an example. Does anyone believe that Goodwin instructs 3 or 4 players to go up in a contest, all with the intention of spoiling the same ball whilst their opponents run amok once the ball hits the deck? How many times do we see opposition sides score easy goals because of this? That's only one example. But it is directly related to this defensive zone that we play. If our players don't have direct opponents as such, then your backline group need to have the utmost trust, composure and decision making skills in each other to know when to fly, or when not to etc. I believe Goodwin needs to show some maturity and an ability to change when something isn't working and in my opinion, I'd love to see us fall back and play a much less aggressive type of zone that suits players like Oscar, who I must admit was really good yesterday. He is a one-on-one defender. Not a zone playing key position defender. Lever would benefit from a tighter playing backline group, go and look at how Adelaide play and why he was so good for them. Lewis, Vince and Jetta would all benefit from playing closer to their opponents due to their lack of speed. I can't understand it and I really hope Goody can show some humility just like Hardwick did last year and rejig the backline structure. It's okay to be wrong as a coach. As upset as I am with yesterday, I still hold hope that this group will click. I'm certainly beginning to question some of Goodwin's plans though. Thoughts?

I am do not like the negativity. I know it is my choice to read these forums - nobody is making me but I always feel 1000 times worse after tuning in here after a loss. I have decided not to read anything for the next week and just hope our next game against last years premiers is a competitive one and we learn from yesterdays errors. I seriously do not believe any player goes out not wanting to win and intentionally plays poorly. Go Dees.

There should never be more than 2 go up at any contest. Someone should always stay down. The other thing that annoys me it the lack of an anchor that sits goal side of the last opposition player. Phil Davis does it for GWS and some other teams do it.

And Brisbane, who managed to kick two goals after 3/4 time on Saturday. They’re not small scalps.

Hunt, Hibberd, Lever and Jetta have been woeful. All of them can play and all of them were great in 2017. Really, really odd.

Putting the cue in the rack turned a 4 point loss to a metaphorical 8 points loss That lost percentage sees 4 teams leapfrog us. This result was a disaster.

How many "wake up calls" do we need.... How many times can we "learn a lesson from that loss" ? I am constantly amazed by the number of excuses the sugar-coaters can find for performances like this. We simply HAD to win that game. Instead we got flogged. Really flogged. Shame Shame Shame.

Apparently, he told the boys to go out in the last quarter with one goal in mind , which Nibbler duly delivered.

The closest player to the opposition goal should be a Demon, no matter where he is. Would have stopped half their goals at least yesterday.

Thought I’d give it a night before venting on this one, but that was the most insipid, pathetic and gutless performance I’ve seen since the dark days of the Neeld era. The only ones who hadn’t given up for the day by the last quarter were the poor bastards in the cheers squad. I don’t really care that much if we lose but at least run out the game like you’re actually trying to accomplish something.

It was positively the worst performance I’ve seen us put in for a longtime.

Great. He can run. But he has very little impact.

I'll be positive...... I took a deep breath. I turned the tv off My son made an awesome chicken noodle soup for dinner And we moved on...... It's just a game. That we aren't good at

Notwithstanding my unhealthy hate for this fellow, Bugg being selected is good for my Catholic soul. It's the punishment I deserve. I'm thinking of changing my username to ProBugg.

This has been going on for years now...it's nothing new. Pretty sure it was Malthouse that first used it with C/Wood. We should be well aware & able to counter it by now.

I positively believe we get thumped!

Goodwin should see out his contract. We need to make changes and I'm sure we will. Look at the positives we can't play any worse and we play Richmond at the best time after an easy win, they won't be ready for the fire and brimstone we will provide next week. The Dees WILL WIN by 12 points. NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD PLEASE

Yes, some strange results can occur. Of those teams you mentioned ... Dogs Pies Dons Tigs ... are any of them renowned for not having a dip? Are any of them renowned for dropping games they should win? Not one off but repeatedly? Are any of them renowned for being soft and folding every time the heat is on? We are at a major crossroads. Next game is season defining and if it all goes wrong, may be the one we look back on as the coach killer.

And there in lies the problem “excuses”. How long have we been doing this for, 12 seasons now! I think it’s safe to say that the toys are well and truely out of the cot by now My god it seem like our team will never change their habits.

Also, it's funny that Fox have gone with the above story, as the HUN has put an article up about how we're going to be chasing another big free agent at the end of the season. It's all click bait sort of stuff, really. So much water to go under the bridge before we even reach that time of the year.

The matter of addressing the Collingwood loss last year lasted a long time. Must have really bothered them.

Pathetic. And I'm not talking about Lever... Its always the same here. Rag on a player for whatever reason, bemoan drafting him, his continual selection, his limitations.. etc Nek minnit... wow guys, that guy is good! I remember eveyone here used to say Tmac was no good. How'd that work out? Last year Omac was the continual whipping boy. Levers turn now is it? Why not just spare yourselves and everyone else the premature rants, and wait.

Said every apologist for rotten football since 2006.

I’m not surprised by people’s frustration with his form so far this year, but I am surprised that people dont see his value to the team when he’s up and running. The fact that he’s covering the ground suggests the effort is certainly there and 22 disposals, 6 tackles and a goal is not terrible in a 10 goal loss. When he’s at his best he’s a very clever, creative, goal kicking half-forward. Last season he and Melksham were a great combination with their complementary skill sets. Either they’re both out of form, or there’s been a change to the gameplan that’s cutting them out.

I think hes been pretty good. Stepped up in the absence of TMac and been consistant. Its been a real positive actually.

I don't think Werridee is suggesting yesterday's performance was anything other than awful - it wasn't. It was dreadful and you'd have to be stone hearted not to have finished that game not at least a bit pizzed off by it. It's just that the sack Goodwin, we're doomed, it's all been for nothing, we're never going to be good crap is totally over the top.

Oliver showed his class, Salem continued his steady progress (equal most clearances), Brayshaw was decent and showed his underlying class and hardness in his first game back, O'Mac showed that he's developing into a fine KPD, Jones did a great run-with role on Mitchell, and Fritsch - even though he didn't do much - continued to show that he has footy smarts and talent. Hawthorn were very good today and if they play like anything close to that all year, they'll go a long way. Thank god Burgoyne was out ...

You're right in that we can't drop them all. You're wrong to give him another week. He's a momentum killer. @ProDee was right. His 4 goals last week was the worst thing that came out of that game. He can't kick, he can't handpass and he's fumbly. We simply cannot feature him in our forward line. Get him out.

2014 - Geelong lose to Sydney by 110 points, make the 8. 2015 - Fremantle lose to Port and Hawthorn by 60+ points, are minor premiers 2016 - Hawthorn lose to GWS by 75 points, make the 8. 2017 - Richmond lose to Adelaide and St Kilda by 80 and 67 points, are premiers. Calm your farm.

I’ve read some knee-jerk stuff on here before but this takes the cake, mate. Today was rubbish but there’s still 19 more rounds.

Wrong place to come after a loss if you want no negative comments. Hell, wrong place to come any time if you’re looking for positivity.

Not sure what to make of his game today, 66 hit outs but there seems to an issue with midfield communications or set up. I saw him win numerous hit outs quite easily but how often to our full advantage? From boundary throw ins I saw him flip one out the back but to 2 Hawks, then flip a couple out wide to a nest of Hawks while our guys are on the inside, then when we had a throw in in our forward pocket in the 3rd but we had no one front and centre, all our guys lined up to the side and behind. Max then decisively knocked it straight forward down Sicily’s throat who promptly kicked long over our press and they scored a goal on the break, end to end. And that was the ball game. Dumb stuff but who is not talking to whom? Interestingly enough Max dominated the tap outs enough to just make sure he tapped to where Mitchell wasn’t and maybe Jones then did not need to tag Mitchell and could have been more a creator than negator.